TR: Calculating ADT on a "trip"

Old Oct 4, 17, 1:37 pm
  #1  
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TR: Calculating ADT on a "trip"

There was a thread a couple of years back that discussed this but I'm not sure I remember it right (or if still holds) so I figured it'd be easier to start a new thread with the basic question of how to maximize the ADT on a particular trip.

Just to keep things simple, assume a 5 day stay playing only 99.5% VP which requires $20 coin in per tier credit. So every 1k TCs carries an expected loss of $100 (1000*20*0.005). If you have a budget of $100/day then over the long run (ignoring variance) you average 1000 TCs per day (something seems fishy about these numbers - did I make an error?). Anyway, this is not the best way to maximize TCs. Preferably you would earn 5k TCs on 1 day or 2.5k on 2 days. However, what is best for earning status is not necessarily best for comps.

So here's what I recall from that other thread. If on a trip to a premier location (eg las vegas, atlantic city), theoretical gets added across all dates at a particular casino instead of averaged. I probably have some of this info garbled (couldn't find the exact post I'm thinking of and its maybe 5 years old). At least this is the rule I've been adhering to. So if I am comped at Caesars, I only play at Caesars for that stay. If I earn 2.5k on days 1 and 3 I will max my TCs given my budget but does this also max my ADT?

I'd appreciate if someone can confirm (or more likely correct) what I have here.
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Old Oct 5, 17, 5:33 am
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One issue is that the THEO used for comp calculation process (or shall we say the "program theo") is set by the casino property. You can calculate the theoretical loss, but that does NOT always match what the casino will use to calculate your property theo.

For example, some casinos award "less" theo for good games. On the other end, some casinos sometimes award "more" theo if it's a multi-game machine with multiple theoretical losses.

I just think it's important to realize that unless someone (a host etc.) let's you know the actual theo earned you are only doing theoretical estimates.

I'll try to circle back, when I have a chance to work through some calculations.
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Old Oct 5, 17, 6:03 am
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Thanks. I used vp since we know the actual theo assuming perfect play. I assume at least the casinos use the same value but maybe not?
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Old Oct 8, 17, 5:45 am
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Originally Posted by sbjnyc View Post
Thanks. I used vp since we know the actual theo assuming perfect play. I assume at least the casinos use the same value but maybe not?
so what does the casino give as the theo rate for 9/6 JoB?
and which Caesars casino is that?
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Old Oct 8, 17, 9:03 am
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Originally Posted by snail View Post
so what does the casino give as the theo rate for 9/6 JoB?
and which Caesars casino is that?
(a) Play a 9/6 JoB video poker session in isolation.
(b) Keep very accurate records on the number of hands played, total coin in.
(c) Get someone who has access to your casino comp account (host) to tell you what the theo was for your play.

Everything else is a "best guess" or estimate.
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Old Oct 9, 17, 12:40 pm
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Originally Posted by snail View Post
so what does the casino give as the theo rate for 9/6 JoB?
and which Caesars casino is that?
Originally Posted by baccarat_king View Post
(a) Play a 9/6 JoB video poker session in isolation.
(b) Keep very accurate records on the number of hands played, total coin in.
(c) Get someone who has access to your casino comp account (host) to tell you what the theo was for your play.

Everything else is a "best guess" or estimate.
I don't know what they use. I think the fact that 9/6 job at a TR property is $50 coin in per tc instead of 10 for low limits and 20 for higher limits indicates they base the theo on the pay table (at least to some extent). They may not assume perfect play but they know the actual long term payout for each game/pay table so they might use something between the 2.

That being said, I'm just looking more at the mechanics of how the program works and not the precise numbers.
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Old Oct 17, 17, 12:28 am
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Originally Posted by sbjnyc View Post
I don't know what they use. I think the fact that 9/6 job at a TR property is $50 coin in per tc instead of 10 for low limits and 20 for higher limits indicates they base the theo on the pay table (at least to some extent). They may not assume perfect play but they know the actual long term payout for each game/pay table so they might use something between the 2.

That being said, I'm just looking more at the mechanics of how the program works and not the precise numbers.
The broad concept, that in most instances you will not earn much (or any) theo for 9/6 JoB or full pay video poker. There are exceptions, but overall this is the situation.

What you have to appreciate about casino programs is that unlike the hotel or airline programs where there is one set of "rules" that are followed (mostly) globally for promotions and offers, casino marketing offers are much more opaque.

Finding a "sweet spot" for these games (good VP Games that provide above average theo for comps/marketing) is akin to finding a British Airways mistake fare in long-haul first class for $800.

Everyone has to determine the value of potential marketing offers. For some, playing "not so good" games but getting lots of free rooms (one example) is an acceptable trade-off.
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Old Oct 18, 17, 11:57 am
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I'm not sure how transparent some of the the promos I see from Delta (and other airlines) are but I get your meaning. My own experience is that it's much easier to get room comps in Vegas than AC for summer weekends but the availability seems to change based on what and how much I play. I never tracked it too closely.

For another hypothetical, suppose I am in AC for 2 days and play regular slots and earn 2k TC total.

Is there a difference in how your theo is determined if you:
A) earn 2k TC in 1 casino on 1 day
B) earn 1k TC in 2 separate casinos on 1 day
C) earn 2k TC in 1 casino split between 2 days
D) earn 1k TC in 2 separate casinos split between 2 days

assuming of course that the casinos are CET (Ballys Caesars or Harrahs). This is one part of the program that I never understood. I've always been leery of the promos where you need to play in many different casinos to earn TC bonuses.
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