fairviewroad

Certainly, doing some basic things like building bathrooms post-security and installing at least a post-security vending machine would be a good idea regardless. But my comment was based on two things:

1. The history of commercial service at TTN. Over the past 20 years, most service at TTN has been on small aircraft and frequently of short duration. The Frontier service is an outlier and as such I wonder at the advisability of spending big money on capital improvements. Yes, I realize it's a bit of a chicken-egg thing, but previous attempts at starting service at TTN should be a stark warning.

2. The long-term viability of Frontier Airlines itself. True, waiting 6 months might not shed any light on that situation, but given the airline's ever-changing route map, its struggle to find a niche that works, and the cutthroat competition at its DEN hub, I have to wonder whether Frontier will be flying anywhere, much less TTN, a year from now. (I know, that's a topic for a separate thread.)

Anyhow, I don't think the problem at COS was inadequate facilities. At any rate, COS has bathrooms and a food court post-security. The problem there seemed to be that Frontier grossly over-estimated the demand for non-stop service from COS. I highly suspect they'll find the same is true in TTN, especially with a major international hub a 30-minute train ride away in EWR.

davywavy

Whether Frontier has long-term viability is unknown to me - I can't predict the future - but Dave Siegel appears to be achieving what he was brought in to do. The airline will report a full year 2012 profit - the first full year profit since 2003.

And since the bulk of its operations are at DEN, it appears to be doing this in spite of being squeezed by the two giants.

Which is surely not to say that Frontier is out of the woods.

A profit is one thing (even a good profit) but the airline is still cash negative, largely because of forward payments on the Airbus Neo order. Normally, these might be met from cash reserves, but of course, Frontier has no cash reserves - Republic does.

(As a positive side note, I understand there will be some quite jolly news involving Airbus before too much longer).

In order to be cash neutral (the start of cash generation) with the present encumbrances (the Neo) the airline needs to make $50 million a year and it looks as if it will be (about) $10 million or so short of that in 2012.

The next issue is ROI - return on investment - which is the first thing any potential investor will look at.

There are various numbers for ROI - some investors will be content with 12%, some will demand 18%. Southwest Airlines (according to its CEO) is "aiming for"15%, but, despite its profitability, is not quite there yet.

But for me, the greatest test of the restructured Frontier is happening now - Q1.

Q1 has, historically, been its weakest quarter - I can't recall when Frontier last made a profit in Q1. And despite all the good financial news for 2012, it didn't make a profit in Q1 last year, either.

If Siegel can make it happen - even a small profit - then it will be four quarters of consecutive profit and from that many goodies flow, and to the staff.

The best I am hoping for is break even, or close to it.

But there is a positive picture on Wall Street. The revised guidance for Frontier Q4 was issued on December 31, 2012. Since then the RJET stock price has risen from (about ) $5.60 to today's $9.60.

Some will argue that it is't all because of Frontier and to some extent that may be true. Even so, the stock rose 22% on the first trading day after the revised guidance. Compare this to the later Republic news - the new deal with American Airlines - when the stock rose just 30 cents for a moment, and then fell back to negative 50 cents.

Jerseyguy

Yes, Trenton's track record is bad when it comes to commerical service but if they truly want to make a go of it they need to have basics. You are in favor of post security bathrooms and a vending machine and those are both neccessities but I believe that adequate parking is a necessity too.

You have 4-5 flights a day going out of there a day

#1 MDW flight is 6 days a week
#2 RDU flight is 6 days a week
#3 MCO 4x/FLL 2x
#4 RSW 2x/TPA 2x/MSY 2x
#5 CMH and DTW

If they fill 90 out of 138 seats on those planes and 50 people park there per flight thats 250 parking spaces a day. I would think that most people would be staying atleast 3 days so you need 750 spaces possibly more if people stay on average longer. The new lot brings them to 1100. So its pretty close to a neccesity if you envision the airport doing fairly well. They will probably pay for the lot with money from landing fees from F9, that they wouldn't have gotten if F9 wasn't here.

Earthlings

$2.5M grant for upgrade at Trenton-Mercer Airport

http://articles.philly.com/2013-03-1...ntier-airlines


Then this article says that if they expand the parking lot, then parking may not be free anymore
http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2...t_must_do.html

Jerseyguy

Yeah, I was a bit leary of charging for parking in the beginning but now I'm warming up to it. They definately have to improve things inside the terminal so any money that would have subsidized parking such as profits on F9 landing fees or the new rent from the new bar/resturant that is going to use 1500 of 3600ft of space of the old resturant needs to be used to improve the terminal. I think the max amount would be $3 a day which is almost nothing but would pay for upkeep of the parking areas.

Heres a summary of what is currently going on that I posted on another forum that deals with parking and the new resturant:

The restaurant space is 3600 square feet. 1500 would be used as a bar area where bar food could be purchased. 2100 sq feet would remain for overflow seating. As far as parking goes Trenton now has approximately 650 parking spaces located near the terminal with an additional 280 spaces coming in early April with the finishing of a currently under construction new lot. In addition, passengers may also use a remote lot (unspecified as to how many spaces are available) and are currently shuttled back to the terminal using a county shuttle bus. Frontier has agreed to loan the county 200,000 for the design of an additional parking lot adjacent to the terminal which would add an additional 270 spaces to total 1200 total spaces available. Officials say it could cost up to 2.5 million dollars to offer the 1200 spaces that Frontier is estimating that they would need for their service. Though I am wondering why it would cost that much when they built the 280 space lot for $250,000 using Mercer County DOT road crews.

A bid for a private company to run shuttle buses to the temporary parking lot has been put out and it is estimated to cost $30,000 to $50,000 a month to offer 20 hour 6 day a week service.

Info was taken from 2 new news stories about the airport
http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2...t_must_do.html
http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2...t_may_cha.html

Earthlings

I just hope Frontier will survive there after all the money they put in for expansions!

brettalb

I booked a flight from RDU -> TTN the first weekend it was available. You can't beat $60 r/t. I've never been to TTN, but I will need to rent a car. I've heard Avis and Budget are there with very limited hours.

Jerseyguy

Nope you just can't beat $60rt. Avis and Budget are open from 8am-6pm on weekdays and 10am-2pm on weekends (according to their website). picking up at TTN shouldn't be a problem but the return will be before they open so make sure you know where the key drop-off is before you leave.

Make sure you find a good coupon for avis or budget because they can be expensive. Oh and make sure you eat before you get to the airport, at that hour your option is going to be the snack machine pre-security.

Earthlings

The control tower will close, but F9 will still fly into TTN but in bad weather will fly to another airport to be diverted. Starts April 7th for 4 weeks.


http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2...t_control.html

davywavy

I assume the same applies to BMI - another airport Frontier serves - and which tower is also closing.

Earthlings

They said they fly out of airports that sometimes don't have people working at the towers. But they need the towers for the bad weather. But it can be tricky with Philly, EWR, and NY airports and smaller airports navigating.

davywavy

As I understand it, Frontier receives a deal of its (TTN) guidance from the tower at PHL, which I assume will continue.

Bad weather may complicate things, but Frontier has said that the closing of the tower won't affect its expansion plans. That's assuming it does close and the county or the state doesn't step in.

But as to other airports, both BMI and BKG (BBG) towers will be closed.

DLSIZE

Not tower but Philadelphia approach and departure but if I recall they are co-located together.

davywavy

So it seems.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_TRACON

The primary responsibility of the Philadelphia TRACON/ATCT is the safe, orderly, and expeditious flow of arrival, departure, and en route traffic. PHL TRACON's main responsibility is obviously - Philadelphia International Airport. Additionally, they offer approach and departure services to several other satellite airports near PHL; Northeast Philadelphia Airport (PNE), New Castle Airport (ILG) in Wilmington, Delaware, Trenton Mercer Airport (TTN) in Trenton, New Jersey

Im not sure why the TTN closure has caused such a kerfuffle, when there has been so very little said about the other airports.

drbobguy

I flew TTN-MSY roundtrip last week (down to MSY on Monday, up to TTN on Friday). Both flights were completely full, maybe a very few seats empty, but I didn't notice any. It's a shame they're dropping this route.