BigLar

If you (and I) keep touting Beaulieu, there won't be any room for us when we want to go back.

It certainly does, and we used the train extensively while we were there. Very inexpensive and quite convenient to get pretty much anywhere along the coast. And the busses (which are even cheaper) fill in the rest. Really, for most folks a car is not needed at all.
+1. Totally agree.

menton1

Of course, it is ultimately a personal decision. However, for me, that "sense of freedom" would be quickly overtaken by the fact that I cannot enjoy Villa Kerylos, Villa Ephrissi, or a fabulous lunch on the beach in Cap d'Ail. (Le Cabanon). And honestly, car rental is not that expensive in France. There are great deals everywhere-- on Nova, and on the Airlines' partner sites with Hertz and Avis. In Nice, I don't use a car. But all the other towns are fairly easy to park and get to wherever you want to go!

MichaelBrighton

Why is it that auto addicts ignore the price of fuel? France happens to be one of the most expensive countries in Europe for fuel and using an auto in the summer and in stop-and-go traffic will only make the cost higher. As I had written elsewhere, when I have rented autos locally, the cost of fuel turns out much higher than the cost of rental. So saying "rental is not that expensive in France" is really kind of meaningless.

Your description of the enjoyments has nothing at all to do with an auto. I can have the same enjoyment minus the inconvenience of parking and dealing with traffic for a fraction of what it is costing you not only in money but in peace of mind.

I really have the impression that you simply don't look for alternatives. I suppose in the US or UK it is probably much harder to find alternate transport. In much of continental Europe there has been, for over a century, very good public transport. If you don't look for alternatives, of course, you will stay with the only transport you know, but that will be your loss.

MSPeconomist

I agree and i've done this drive a number of times. It's fun to stop in the small towns, in fact taking several days. While there is train service between Marseille and Nice (and Monaco) it isn't practical IMO as a way to visit most of the smaller towns, with Cannes and Antibes (not the same for Cap d'Antibes) plus Beaulieu as obvious exceptions but they're not small. Eze would be an example of a place that isn't practical by car, although you must leave your car outside of the village, at the bottom of the hill. From Marseille, it's nice to take day trips to Les Baux and Aix-en-Provence; the latter can be easily reached by train but one needs a car for Les Baux. (There's a very good restaurant and hotel at the bottom.) There are also good restaurants in the countryside which require a car or two expensive taxi fares. Another interesting option can be to take the Napoleanic Route up into the mountains, but be prepared for tough driving on narrow curving secondary roads with lots of traffic, including heavy trucks.

I vote for driving, but at a leisurely pace if possible.

MichaelBrighton

I see both driving and smoking as somewhat anti-social activities. Some of the best travel experiences I have had have been on trains and buses - because there are other people there, people I can chat with or, in a few rare incidents, people entertained us while we travelled. Travel, it seems to me, should be a social activity - sharing experiences, much like we do here, but while actually travelling.

If you sit in an auto all the time, or most of the time, you are effectively sealed off from the local environment - not just the sights and sounds, but the smells, the wind, etc. Yes, the same in a bus or train. But transport should be to get some place, not the goal itself.

Whether you drive slowly or quickly, you are missing part of the local atmosphere and isolating yourself from other people. IOW, you're missing quite a lot.

menton1

You seem to be obsessively anti-car. It's just being argumentative, the French say "Chacun a son gout", which, in a nutshell, means that some may want to use a car, some not. You need to accept that.

BigLar

Quod erat demonstrandum

MichaelBrighton

And you seem to be obsessively pro-car. So what?

My points are that using an auto diminishes, or can diminish, the pleasure of travelling.

I met my wife on a train (we'll be married 25 years in a few weeks). If I or she had been driving, that wouldn't have happened. I've been told about those "secret places" that locals know about but tourists don't by friendly people riding a local bus. If either of us had been in autos, that wouldn't have happened. A few years ago, taking a bus from Amalfi to Positano along the Amalfi drive, the bus stopped while a woman talked to the driver. She then asked the passengers - doesn't anyone here speak German? I do, so I offered to help. After she explained, the driver turned to me and ask what she said, I didn't speak any Italian at the time, so I gestured. Another passenger asked if I spoke English and that ended the language stalemate. After she departed (that's all she wanted), a bottle of wine suddenly appeared and the rest of us on the bus had kind of a party. It was very nice. Happens in an auto?

Having an auto is also kind of a handicap - so long as the auto is available, why walk or rent a bike? Isn't it just so much easier to pop into the auto and drive away?

Autos pollute. Isn't there enough pollution already?

And, this morning I read an interesting article in the NY Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/19/he...ted=all&_r=0): "Why does life in the United States — despite its sophisticated health care system and high per capita wages — lead to worse health? New research is showing that the immigrant advantage wears off with the adoption of American behaviors — smoking, drinking, high-calorie diets and sedentary lifestyles." The last is an example of over-use of auto. As I wrote above, why walk or cycle when you've got an auto?

menton1

Wow, you just drone on and on. Nobody cares, pal. Some folks will use a car, some will take public treansport. Whatever suits you. This is NOT a political campaign, although you make it feel like one.

And I haven't been "obsessively" pro-car, I just mentioned that for me it works better. I haven't gone 1000 words on it.

Enjoy your trains and buses.

b1513

You ask why 'auto addicts' ignore the price of fuel . Maybe it's because we just don't care. Sure it would be great if it were less expensive but it isn't. So be it. I'm in the rent a car category and like to be able to stop at the spur of the moment when something strikes my interest like that out of the way waterfall, that cheese maker in the countryside, the mustard miller's little shop that is not in town, etc.. I've, like you, had many interactions with people, travellers or locals, when stopping at a cafe in a remote town and things of that ilk. I don't think a train or bus is required for that. You can have rewarding experiences no matter how you travel. ....train, car, bus..... Everyone has their own thoughts on this. There's no right or wrong answer.

If renting a car I would definitely get a GPS. It makes for easy driving. My car insurance at home covers me in most European countries.

Hope you'll report back after your trip DRDebr61.

Bobette

menton1

+1.

MichaelBrighton

Exactly. You've just perfectly described yourself as an addict.

I've heard that claim so many times it's gotten actually rather silly. Yes, I'm sure you and all the other addicts do exactly that all the time. Oddly though, when I'm on the bus in the south of France, I've never autos along the side of the road at that "mustard miller's shop" or at that waterfall.

I don't completely disagree with you, but I think it's a bit more complicated than that. The issue is, I think, that people who travel from auto-dominated cultures tend not to even bother looking for alternatives. It's what they are used to at home and what they bring with them. Travel, in my experience, should be about discovering new things, not bringing your culture along with you.

menton1

The issue is, "each to his/her own". Get off your soapbox, this board is not the place for it, try a political board.

MichaelBrighton

You apparently don't understand the nature of transport. If you don't like my point of view, instead of attacking me why not try to understand it?

menton1

Because I don't care about it. I don't want to understand it. I want to think about lunch at Le Cabanon. Clear to you?