DrSickle

Hello all and sorry in advance for the rather multi-layered question.

I would be the first to admit that this is a borderline insane plan. As my flying is going to be cut down a lot in 2020, i will no longer requalify platinum by segments that year. However, I have been reading these forums far too long to be content with letting my status drops so easily, although my status is merely the result of a long-distance EU-JPN relationship that will finally stop being long-distance next year.

I am doing a longer trip to JPN next spring. I have been trying to think of some ways to incorporate a milage run into this trip to net me about 100k points which would be enough for me to keep my status.

So far, the best plan I have come up with is a MXP-HEL-JFK-HEL-MXP ticket combined with a JFK-HEL-NRT(airport transfer)HND-OKJ/KIX-HEL-JFK ticket, all AY coded in class I (except for HND-OKJ, which is JL in class J). This would, granted, be a little costy (4500 €, + positioning).

The other option I have been considering would somehow involve DEL, however DEL (and the rest of SE Asia) seems to be extremely unnatural. One option which would get med the points would be to utilize some kind of HEL-DEL-HEL + DEL-HEL-YYZ-HEL-DEL combination; however I cannot figure out how to make this one take me into JPN XD. Similarly, I have a problem with the otherwise interesting ARN-LHR-HEL-LAX-HNL-LAX-HEL-LHR-ARN route; I cannot see any good way to add JPN to this.

I would appreciate any input any of you more experienced milage accumulators could share about this. Any better/more cost effective solutions than the JFK route? The long hauls should preferably be in J, but I can also consider trips involving some segments in Y.

BONUS question: My other plan would be to obtain lifetime OWS with JL instead (those familiar with JL will know that this in practice means qualifying OWS once). The idea behind this one would be that as I would continue to qualify AY Silver every year, the OWS by JAL would grand me boarding group 1, lounge access and free seat selection. However, is it possible to enjoy status benefits from JL OWS and AY Silver at the same time, as only one card can be registered on the BP (although technically, I have never seen any formal mention of a status only existing if it is in the BP? So do you think this would make any sense at all?

Thank you in advance for your input and have safe flights!

ffay005

You will get the most out of it if you can combine four longhauls on one ticket. Like DEL-HEL-JFK-HEL-DEL. In J, that will give you 80 000 + positioning flights.

Ideally, you'd need to find AY tickets between the US and Japan. Whether AY sells those (and if they do, at what price?), I don't know. But if it works out, then you could buy one HEL-JFK-HEL and one JFK-HEL-NRT-HEL-JFK.

If you can't buy a J ticket from the US to Japan, consider splitting the whole thing into two, where you would visit Japan separately and then create a separate MR.

This year, I've bought MXP-HEL-NRT-HEL-FCO in J for about €2100. Substitute Italy with whatever is cheapest right now, and you'll earn 50k + positioning flights.

Then you'd need 50k from a MR. Why not make a similar trip to Japan if you have in-laws there etc? But basically, you could choose any longhaul destination ex-EUR, whatever is cheapest at the moment. If you have no intention to stay at the destination, then DEL is convenient and often cheap (and works even with the current, longer flight times).

ffay005

Oh, and if you find a good price from Europe to HNL, that might be worth considering, too. HNL-Japan is a quick flight away on JL, which you could buy separately. JL will earn you some points, too.

DrSickle

Thank you for your reply.

They do sell JFK-HEL-JPN for about 2800€, which sounded a little steep at first but on the other hand that's 80938 points (including HND-JAL segment on JAL), so about 28-29p/€ which I think sounds actually decent.

Concerning HNL, the problem is mostly that while getting to HNL for a good price can be done, getting from HNL to Japan at a good point/€ price seems difficult. With JAL PE (PE with JAL earns interestingly more points to AY than I) I calculate total fare to about 3800€ for a value of approx 90k points, around 23-ish p/€. This is assuming that codeshare AY-bookings get the 25% plat bonus, which I believe they should although the online calculator does not factor that in. This route would also have some long layovers, which would further increase the cost.

So it is looking like I will be doing a small trip to NY aswell, and then onward to JPN, with turnaround at JFK on my way back. Is direct turnaround at JFK feasible? This would seemingly net me more than enough for my purposes.

flyingeph12

It's generally cheaper to start from Canada (YYZ or YUL) and connect through JFK (or alternatively, LHR) than to start at JFK. If needed, you could buy a cheap positioning ticket between JFK and YYZ/YUL.

Here's an example:
https://www.google.com/flights/#flt=...9*2.USD.254389

on22cz

Have a look at this thread:
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/prem...s-1-382-a.html

If you get a travel agent booking you a long stopover in Japan, you may be able to build the rest of RTW around this deal.

ffay005

How did you manage to cram in a JL flight here? My idea was AY all the way, four legs and a flat 80k.

AY5 lands at JFK 14:40 and AY6 departs at 19:05. It's perfectly doable and safe. The Flagship lounge is busy, but if you're into it, you could take the Airtrain to Jamaica and spend some time in this vibrant African American neighbourhood. Then again, New York is an amazing destination in its own right (although hotels are usually very expensive).

Didn't know that HNL-Japan was so expensive! Doesn't serve the purpose, then, sadly.

I think AY used to have codeshares from Japan to New Zealand (on NZ). That could be something worth checking out, too, if they still exist and if the fare rules allow a "stopover" in Japan.

DrSickle

Oh I didn't realize it was also possible to do this ex-Canada, I am still a beginner matrix user so I was not able to find these at first. This is certainly much cheaper, getting me up to approx 35 €/point, assuming the the AA segment operated by Envoy Air earns nothing. Thanks! Also, I only find options on the matrix that have an airport change at JFK-LGA on the return trip, am I doing something wrong?

EDIT: Apparently I cannot seem to find anywhere to book the YUL-KIX or YYZ-KIX return; it is visible on matrix for March 2020 but cannot find it anywhere else. Too early perhaps?

This looks interesting, I have no experience with RTW tickets but will look into this option aswell. Apparently it would book into D, which would increase the mileage nicely for the JL segment. Thanks!

Sorry I made a small typo; my itinerary was JFK-HEL-NRT(airport change)HND-OKJ/KIX-HEL-JFK; the HND-OKJ segment was JL code on JAL and is bookable through Finnair, this domestic leg being allowed by the ticket rule.

HNL-Japan was around 700 € in basic Y which earns next to nothing to AY. In my experience JL tends to always be expensive when I consider booking it anywhere except domestic. Domestic on the other hand gives often decent prices, including the weirdest "business class" concept I have witnessed.

I couldn't find any flights to NZ on AY, but will try again tomorrow to see if these would still exist.

Thank you all for the suggestions. I am now leaning a bit toward starting from YUL/YYZ, Although will have to figure out what would be the best way to connect the tickets as apparently the cheap option only applies to YUL/YYZ-JFK-HEL-KIX and not YUL/YYZ-LHR-HEL-KIX (at least according to what I can find on the matrix).

flyingeph12

You can book using the multi-city function on Finnair's website (here's a link to the old interface, which I think at the moment is the best—if not only—way to book multi-city tickets: https://www.finnair.com/fi/gb)

I don't know what exact dates you're looking for, but there doesn't seem to be much availability right now at the lowest price point (i.e., C$3409 = ~2260€). I was able to find something departing YYZ on 29 Mar and returning 5 Apr. Note the overnight in HEL on the return (which is unavoidable, given the timing of Japan and US flights, respectively—the only way to avoid is to return from HKG, BKK or SIN with midnight departures). The YYZ-JFK flight is in economy, booking into Y class (which earns 1400 points with the Plat bonus), while ORD-YYZ is in business (which earns 1875 points with the Plat bonus).




EDIT: There might be more availability in March 2020 if you fly into KIX but return from SIN/BKK and/or fly from YUL and back into YYZ (or vice versa). Note that HEL-LHR-YYZ/YUL will earn fewer miles than HEL-JFK/ORD-YYZ/YUL. AY-coded flights on BA still earn the 25% Plat bonus, but you earn based on the actual kilometers flown instead of the flat 16,000 points. The flip side is you might be able to try out the new BA suite on the A350 on LHR-YYZ.

on22cz

Mind you can't really extend the fare to the RTW. It was meant to build RTW from more separate tickets, to which this may be suitable.

DrSickle

Well, the dates are still undecided but probably I would be staying 3-4 weeks, but this should not be an issue with this fare.

I can see plenty of availability throughout the fall now but none after December (I cannot even manage to see the one you posted). Does this mean that it is sold out already or that the availability for these fares is simply not made available yet? In the fall I can find multiple dates with availability.

Also, bookwithmatrix would allow bookings with this fare through flightnetwork (OTA) in the spring, but I suppose this would be risky as AY themselves is not selling the fare.

Intrrestingly, I can only find routings through JFK on my searches, not ORD. Not a big deal, but would of course prefer J all the way if possible. Do you have to make some specific search criteria to get the transfer in ORD?

flyingeph12

The first thing to note is that HEL-ORD is seasonal and usually starts for the season around late March/early April. Given that the itineraries with the lowest prices seem to go through JFK on the outbound and ORD on the return, that might be part of the problem. I'm not sure if more availability will open up later, but right now, if you're looking at a 3-4 week stay, you can't book anything with an outbound past the beginning of March anyways.

I have been using matrix.itasoftware.com to look for availability. Below is what I get doing a search for a 21-28 day stay.


Then, on Finnair's website, I'm using the multi-city function to actually find the flights: YYZ-HEL, HEL-OSA, OSA-HEL, HEL-YYZ.

DrSickle

Thanks, now I got it to show what I wanted to see.

Considering to make this a quick turnaround in YYZ, is there any feasible options for this? I can find some connections from EU to YYZ via JFK, however I am not sure if these would be same plane turnarounds or not, not familiar with these North American connections I'm afraid.

The other option would be the LHR route with BA, although this would probably necessitate a stayover in YYZ both directions (too risky connection?)

flyingeph12

I've only done an immediate turnaround at YUL, but I would in general give yourself a few hours at least. At YUL, I had to clear Canadian immigration/customs and then US immigration/customs (most US-bound flights from Canada pre-clear US C/I in Canada). Not to mention that JFK-YYZ/YUL (as well as most ORD-YYZ) flights are on regional jets—and JFK and ORD are quite prone to delays.

If you're flying in from Europe, I'm not sure a same-day turnaround is feasible. Maybe if you go with an evening departure on BA YYZ-LHR (assuming an early morning departure from Europe and midday/early afternoon arrival in YYZ). But I don't think you could do HEL-JFK-YYZ-JFK-HEL, etc., on the same day.

Honestly, if it were me, I'd probably overnight just to be safe (and to break up the flying). I've done the overnight at both YYZ and YUL—both have hotels connected to the terminal (and at YYZ, the Four Points is within walking distance from T3, which I actually recommend over the Sheraton) and easy public transit connections to the city centre.