6 Finnair longhauls in a week - reflections
 

So I just did 6 Finnair longhaul segments (+ 2 short hauls and 7 *A segments) pretty much back-to-back, and here are some reflections. All AY longhaul were business class on A330 (ie "new" J)

Video / IFE
(This is my first time using IFE extensively, so take it for what it is)
Screens are small and brightness and contrasts is not very good making it difficult to watch movies on a daytime flight.

Selection is so so and doesn't seem to be updated very often. I started to watch a movie, just to realize I watched it in february when I flew AY last time.

It is nice they offer a selection of movies from all destinations, but why isn't there a selection of subtitling? There are a lot of good Korean movies, but they are offered completely without subtitles. The audience of that is minuscule, especially on flights to all destinations but ICN.
Some of the material had Finnish subtitles hard coded into the movie, even if you selected subtitles=none, it still was Finnish.

On some flights each movie was preluded by un-skippable commercials. Very annoying, especially since one of the two slots were not working, muted sound and black screen for 30 sec.

Elite recognition
This seems to be individual purser's initiative, and quite far inbetween. On 4 of 6 longhauls, there was no recognition at all, in fact no purser interaction at all. On one, purser approached me but was a bit awkward and said something like "welcome aboard, I can't pronounce your name but you are a oneworld frequent flyer, so there you go". (way to sell yourself short - they think so little of themselves that they rather call me OW than Finnair platinum customer?!)
On one flight, purser was clearly much more a people-person, engaging in a chat, and well aware of my connecting flight saying "you have a long day ahead of you". Purser also remembers my name throughout flight and when deplaning bidding me farewell by name and wishing me a good next flight.

(By the way, I've learned a way to determine number of elites in cabin - on one flight we were 2 plats, on one there was a gold (or other status, not sure which) besides me in the J cabin. Not very elite heavy, so doing recognition can't really be a burden)

I assume some of this is a language thing. Many FAs can be very chatty in Finnish and very short in English. Similar, I was on a Y shorthaul where I was ignored while another status member 2 rows behind me was "secretly" given a free newspaper. Again assuming this was due to me not having a Finnish name on manifest.

Overselling
When flying so much in such a short time, you get a great understanding of AY's massive overselling. On 6 out of 6 flights there were multiple operational upgrades, ranging from a few up to over 30 op ups. As I noted in another thread, I can't understand how that can prove to be a viable way of business. Combine it with not recognizing you own elites, you have an even stranger situation.
On one flight with 12 op-ups, I got a chance to peek at one op-up's boarding pass. He has no frequent flyer number attached and is seq. 125. Tell me last time anyone on CX or QR got op-up'ed without high status and low sequence...

Seats
"New" J is quickly getting old and worn, and I wonder how we all will feel just this autumn when the A350s have entered into service. How fast won't these "new" J become the "dreaded old J"?
Also, having enjoyed several Asian flights in regional narrow body business class (2+2 seated) I can say that on a daytime flight I prefer these recliner seats over AY's "new" J. Actually, 2+2 on narrow body has wider seats than AY new J (I have measured). They also have thicker upholstery and higher quality pillows.

Is there any airline where acknowledgement are not either miss-miss or hit-and-miss? Finnair seems pretty bad, and even when you do get acknowledged, they often try to avoid talking English. But I have never been acknowledged on AA, AB, BA, CX, IB or JL (all in Y) ever.

Only QF is the only airline with which I have had good experience in that respect. It seems the purser has a tablet with all infos about onboard FFs on some flights even.

I suspect that the Finnish notion of politeness is a bigger problem than the language barrier even. They just fear they would disturb you. It felt most awkward when they would drop me a newspaper in short haul, or a spare business class head set in long haul (before Y+ was introduced), and run away with a word or at least before I had even time to utter a thank you.

Obviously, the tablet thing from QR could help. But the status and connection infos are available on the manifest anyway. So what's your trick, beside peeking at the manifest or the gate staff monitors?

Recognization is indeed hit or miss, I have now 3 flights in row where purser comes and greets, longest streak ever.

I just love overselling, since I travel exclusively in economy and low elite loads often grant me opup. This year I have 8/13 record on finnair :D

IFE is crappy, BOYE (bring your own entertainment).

On CX I always get the acknowledgment from ISM though I've heard that sometimes they didn't do it when there are too many elites.

It could happen during peak periods say around Christmas. At other times, the chance is probably between zero and ... zero. :)

Sorry for what may seem like a rudimentary question but how wide/good are the selection of western (i.e. Hollywood) movies?

I'm wondering because I am planning to fly AY to asia this fall. There's a long transit time in HEL (something that AY could improve if they're planning to target US east coast - Asia passengers) but AY J price is very reasonable compared to CX (i.e. about 1/2 what CX is charging) so I'm thinking of giving it a try.

Btw, from looking at finnair site it seems that reindeer meat is an option. Would any of you recommend it?

The IFE does not categorize, they just present everything on the same screen. I am a movie illiteral but I'd say there was a couple of current hollywood movies, maybe 10-15 older hollywoods and a rather large selection of american sitcoms.


Reindeer is a good option. NB it is only available on flights ex HEL, not on inbound.

OK thx. I will give it a try then (I just booked the flight so one way or the other I'll be on AY to BKK/SIN in Nov. :)).

Sorry but one more question. From what I gather AY uses A343 with angle flat (old J) on SIN-HEL and yet when I was choosing my seat, it showed A333 map (i.e. map showing new J w/ those vantage 'throne' seats). Is AY finally putting A333 on SIN - HEL route?

Planning to book BKK in Dec, A350 available then :)

I was surprised they still serve BKK twice daily most of the winter season, plus the scheduled service to Phuket and Krabi. Are they the biggest European to Thailand in winter?

I have had elite recognition on AA to Caribbean destinations and once over Atlantic. This has only been offered to Emerald, not Sapphire. On some CX flights there has been a line to say a few words for me as an Emerald (again Sapphire not noted). On the other hand, AY has also been quite good providing a news paper on short hauls and head phones on long hauls (naturally not always, but reasonably often). All these occurred are at the back of the bus.

The only op-up I have received on AY was one LHR-HEL, have received upgrades to premium econonmy on BA and CX once or twice (and one J on BA as well).

And +1 from me to the reindeer. I order it whenever possible, me like it.

Recognition indeed is hit&miss on many airlines. JL even said in public they've abolished the practice. On KA I always get greeted, on CX most of the time.
I consider a 2 out of 6 succeed ratio on AY to be a step forward, a few years back it would have been 0 out of 6.

Reindeer is really good, excellent choice. The risk with reindeer (just like beef steak), however, is that if the service has to be interrupted because of unexpected turbulence, the dish overcooks in the oven and the delicious meat is not so good anymore. That has happened to me twice, but it is a no-can-do thing. But in any case +1 for that dish, go for it!

Personally, I agree with your opinion about the dimensions and state of the current 'new' J seat on AY. The cabin and the seating are modern and mostly clean, certainly better than many previous generation J seats on other airlines. However, I agree the seats are very narrow and feel slightly claustrophobic. I find the juxtaposition between the airy cabin, even lacking privacy to an extent, with the quite constrained seat area. Perfectly comfortable yes, and good enough as long as its fully flat. That being said, I would personally go for seats like the reverse herringbone or even CW on BA. They feel more spacious, yet private. (Given, I do manage to get window seats on BA)

When it comes to elite recognition, it's very hit and miss on AY. When I travel SH J, I've never been given any sort of greeting or recognition, despite having a very Finnish name. ;) The few times I've been in SH Y, I have received the newspapers now and then but not very consistently. Which is slightly disappointing, given I saw some other elites be given them. (Presumably AY+'s own elites) On BA I have two experiences, and only whilst I've been a OWE. The first was the first flight after I was upgraded to Gold, on LH, which was much appreciated. The second time was on SH, by a stellar purser in CE who thanked me and another pax. in J, and gave both of us water bottles which was a very nice touch. I've only flown F on CX so far, but I have received greetings every time. Also, nothing on AA.

Personally, I don't really mind whether or not I receive a greeting. Sometimes it can be a bit awkward and disingenuous, whereas some crew are very sincere and make you feel appreciated. I think it is very crew-specific, whether or not I would even like to receive a greeting. I definitely consider being greeted by a crew member a nice surprise, and would like to keep it that way. It would become a bit too mechanical if it were to happen on every flight IMO.

I gave that reindeer 3 or 4 chances, but horrible everytime even without turbulence. Avoid at any cost!
Ironically, the other reindeer that they had as a seasonal course for a short period, was fantastic...

Another thing about the IFE - movies are heavily cesored! Any expressive language, any words that might be mildly offensive, is muted or vocied-over. It is very clumsily done, by one single voice actor for entire movie, replacing colourful invectives with 'person' and so on. Pretty annoying!

In my experience Finnair rather op-up's based higher booking classes rather than high status or time of check-in. Not really sure how consistent the practice is tho..

I had my first experience with the all-chinese cabin crew on AY69. Can't say I'm pleased. While there was more smiling the service was sub par. For example they forgot my drink order, didn't wake me up for breakfast as requested and to top it off there was no matronly feeling anymore. I pay to get my beer from a grumpy Finskin täti. Now going to fill in the feedback form -->

Not so sure abt that.
On my last BKK flight, the seat next to me was occupied by a young thai lady.
I just knew that she was op-up´d, and got it confirmed. And she was not that happy about it. She´d been visiting Finland with her Finnish BF, and now they were returning.
She was not very amused by being deported to my bench instead of being with her BF in the cozy back of the bus...
Further, she drank no alcohol, and hardly ate anything of the food.
Needless to say, I hardly believe she had any status or high booking class.
O my, such a sad waste of nice seat and F&B they could have treated some other pax with...
(Something tells me her BF e. g. would appreciate at least the alcohol... ;-) )

Having just completed return trip to Toronto in business class, here are thoughts of my experience.

Outbound to Toronto:

Great purser set the tone for a pleasant late afternoon flight. Dinner service was prompt but not rushed. Food from Savoy chef Kari Aihinen was tasty and nicely presented. Business class was almost full, my impression that not so many upgrades on this flight. No elite recognition (OWE).

Inbound to Helsinki:

Very underwhelmed with the experience. What looked out the be a quiet business class cabin turned out to be full of uppgraded passenger from heavily overbooked economy.
Purser seemed very disorganized. Dinner without aperitives was finished 2.5 hours after fairly late deprture time (10.35PM). No hot towels during the flight.
Catering was a mess. No amuce bouche mentioined on the menu was served. Salad missed vinegrette, fish lacked the sauce. When asked for port with dessert, the purser just said "finished" (loppu suomeksi). We sat on a first row, by the way. Same thing with orange juice at breakfast. Cabin was very hot through out the flight.
And to have a great ending to this flight, one of the stewardess came to say: "Don't you spleep so much better when you can have your feet up during the flight", implaying how fortunate we were to be upgraded from economy, although travelling with paid business class tickets

Yes, this sounds like a rant and price of the business class ticket was cheap. But these small things built up a very unpleasant experience. I think Finnair should have some consistancy with the service provided onboard.

So the upgrade circus continues. Do you know which plane was serving your YYZ-HEL (especially if it was a config with or without mini-j-cabin)?

For me, 2 out of 2 YYZ-HEL were delayed. First time it was announced as "something still isn't ready in the cabin" and second time it was said to "refuelling". Interesting that cabin can't be ready made in the 4 hour turn around, and that fuelling was initiated just a few minutes before scheduled take off.
To me this looks like AY has not secured the correct service slots, ie they do not have service contracts to get ground service fitting to their flight slots.

1 of 2 HEL-YYZ was delayed due to "we are waiting for catering", indicating that they on my trip at least was aware that they needed to load 40 more J meals due to upgrades. On your trip they probably left HEL before deciding to op-up the lot.

Great move to mistake you for an op-up - another proof that economy pax is more important to AY business that J pax. Sometimes on these flights with massive op-ups they hand out feedback forms to the op-ups (to get the good grades). I always make sure I get a form.

YYZ, ORD and JFK are now all served by LTS-LTU so no minicabin there.

What a lousy experience, having a cabin full of op-ups draining the catering of a lighter planned load. IMO this is a serious deterioration of the 'premium' J product, not to mention the apparent lackluster process of upgrading resulting in statusless first time J fliers filling the cabin. I'm not saying that in an elitist way, it just surprises me how out of touch Finnair appears to be in terms of loyalty management, when compared to how other OneWorld airlines handle upgrades.

It's just weird that they upgrade statusless passengers. If Y is still oversold after all Oneworld elites, all previously inconvenienced passengers and all Pro tickets holders are upgraded, they could simply go through the Basic members in decreasing order of tier points.

Yes, the plane was OH-LTT. After my burst in the previous post, I have tried to calm down and come up with something positive about the flight. Yeah, the crew was working hard, the flight was an schedule, plane was clean inside etc.

Anyway, my other half summed it up by saying "worst long haul business class flight ever, even surpassing a miserable SAS experience years ago" and suggested that we spend our money better (=another company) on our next trip.

Oh no! You ended up on an all asian bounce. You didn´t get to hear the Finnish announcements going on and on, not understading a word. I sincerely hope that you didn´t have to sit next to HEL´s bikeys.

+1 on you all.

On my last YYZ-HEL one of the statusless Y pax that was upgraded was an "it" girl. You can imagine the premium feeling of the cabin while she documented every detail and sent pictures and status updates to blogg/social media. Sadly, I'm afraid AY thinks this is good PR. I guess, if you can't satisfy your premium paying customers, it is better to sway those who have no idea what to expect (and who have no intention of ever paying for it)

I am guessing I am getting an equipment change - 10//07/15 AY032 is showing the mini cabin. Any chance that changes? I booked in the main j cabin to be safe - J looks pretty full already so I am guessing not many op-ups will happen.

Do these issues in J happen regularly throughout the year on all routes or just certain routes at certain times of the year (i.e. say summer)? I mean I don't have an issue with op-up per se (I was a beneficiary when I first started to fly TPAC regulary a decade ago :)) though it is certainly problematic when it affects service and overall cabin environment.

I'm going to fly AY (first time ever) in Nov to asia ... and now beginning to wonder whether I should've stayed w/ QR or CX J which I usually take on such trip. I mean does AY really stuff J with op-up regularly (like US based airlines)?

Maybe they just run out of FFP members? I was opupped in january on KIX-HEL and according to FA there were grand total of 5 FFP members onboard consisting 1 AY+P, 1 AY+S, 1 AA platinum and 2 JMB members.

Maybe I am one of the bikeys ;)

It seems to be an issue on select routes. I fly NRT, PEK and HKG pretty often. None of this funny stuff on those routes.

But that's just the (5) elites. Even if there were zero inconvenienced passengers and zero Pro/flex passengers, there must have been some AY+Basic with tier points (at least from their previous HEL-KIX). That was my point.

I suspect an IT problem here. The system likely does not provide useful data about non-elites. I have not been able to look very closely at it, but from what I saw, only elites are explicitly flagged on the computers at the gate.

Yeah, no problems with upgrades happening, if they were upgrading elites and not just totally random pax - while keeping the service level constant.

Agreed, it is on certain routes and/or certain seasons.
In theory, this is why they have configured their aircraft with different sized Y cabins, so they can match capacity to demand.
In practice, it doesn't work. The limited sized fleet makes it difficult to match and they refuse to adjust price of J cabin to meet low demand. Current doctrine states they rather oversell Y at low prices than sell existing J-capacity at low prices.


I always thought gate agents chose op-ups - based on how strange they chose who to upgrade. But on one onversold CKG flight, I overheard conversion between a couple and gate agent. AY had split the couple by op-up-ing only one of them and the couple didn't want to accept the upgrade. In despair agent kept repeating "the computer chooses, we can't do anything about it" and "it is a better seat".
(Actually, they split 2 couples on that flight, that's how bizarre it gets.)


In theory I agree, but in reality there are some issues even if they do op-up by a strict order. If they keep overselling massively on certain routes and/or seasons, op-up will be a safe bet and elites will just stop buying J tickets.

Yesterday, the gate agent at Arlanda specifically said "you have been upgraded to business", not "we have upgraded you to business". And it would be odd for non-Finnair ground staff to deal with this, Admittedly, I could just be overinterpreting.

However, I was once upgraded at HKG. The transfer desk agent could not believe it when I said "oh I got upgraded", and checked three times that my passport, customer number and ticket matched. So it definitely was not his doing!

Yeah, I think it's normally done by AY, not gate staff. I guess their upgrade algorithm is under-implemented.

I doubt that. Most passengers who can afford to buy J, will continue to do so (unlike people on FlyerTalk). And for passengers with economy travel policies, then higher chances of upgrades is actually making the loyalty program work.

That said, it would seem to me that elites do get upgrades before status-less. It just so happens that on some routes, there are not enough elites to upgrade.

Last month on HEL-CDG flight a gate agent congratulated me that I have been upgraded to J. This was very strange because I had upgraded myself earlier already with points. I told this to the agent who just replied: "Oh, really?" On the same flight, one couple was split because of the op-up.

Yes, same thing with the split couple I referred to some posts ago.
The girl told me they tried to refuse the single upgrade, but agent just replied: Sorry, there is nothing I can do about it, if you want to sit together you have to wait til the next departure.

I'll gladly exchange seats, should someone need to sit in Y next to kin.

Incidentally, in my dark, non-frequent flyer days, I did turn down a l/h opup for this exact reason. #NeverAgain.

My flight is showing 10 rows in business - Will that stick or will the equipment change? I booked into the main cabin but there are seats reserved in the mini cabin.

032 - yyz-hel 10/07/15

I and better half are flying HEL-JFK (late Jul) and YYZ-HEL (early Aug) in Y on AA el cheapo ticket. Is there any chance for op-up on AA ticket assuming Y is oversold?

I'd say and hope no. But, AY is known for inconsistency with their opups.

My YYZ - HEL bounce was on LTN.