Anyone want to explain why there are two Chicago Seminar events?
Jul 7, 2023, 4:28 am
#16
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Saipan, MP 96950 USA (Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands = the CNMI)
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Would any self-respecting FlyerTalker attend a seminar at a property without even an FT thread about the hotel in the relevant (Marriott) forum? 
https://www.marriott.com/en-us/hotel...rook/overview/
There is an FT thread on the original hotel venue.
Holiday Inn Elk Grove Village IL
If someone cannot even start a relevant thread, how competent is their putative advice?
This may indeed be the dispositive factor in which location obtains 80% of the total attendance.
https://www.marriott.com/en-us/hotel...rook/overview/
There is an FT thread on the original hotel venue.
Holiday Inn Elk Grove Village IL
If someone cannot even start a relevant thread, how competent is their putative advice?
This may indeed be the dispositive factor in which location obtains 80% of the total attendance.
Jul 7, 2023, 8:59 am
#17
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 355
Would any self-respecting FlyerTalker attend a seminar at a property without even an FT thread about the hotel in the relevant (Marriott) forum?
https://www.marriott.com/en-us/hotel...rook/overview/
There is an FT thread on the original hotel venue.
Holiday Inn Elk Grove Village IL
If someone cannot even start a relevant thread, how competent is their putative advice?
This may indeed be the dispositive factor in which location obtains 80% of the total attendance.
https://www.marriott.com/en-us/hotel...rook/overview/
There is an FT thread on the original hotel venue.
Holiday Inn Elk Grove Village IL
If someone cannot even start a relevant thread, how competent is their putative advice?
This may indeed be the dispositive factor in which location obtains 80% of the total attendance.
"Is there a FT thread on the host property?" isn't a likely question that crosses the minds of potential attendees.
Jul 7, 2023, 9:19 am
#18
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: The County, Maine
Posts: 829
Any event that has these kinds of terms and conditions about attending is basically telling you their worth
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/35137191-post9.html
Couldn’t agree more and last years rules and regulations from Stefan read like Dr. Fauci’s “do’s and dont’s” playbook even after the threat of Covid had subsided. It was never, never like this before. If I attend it will be at the original venue in Elk Grove.
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/35137191-post9.html
Couldn’t agree more and last years rules and regulations from Stefan read like Dr. Fauci’s “do’s and dont’s” playbook even after the threat of Covid had subsided. It was never, never like this before. If I attend it will be at the original venue in Elk Grove.
Jul 7, 2023, 9:45 am
#19
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 355
Any event that has these kinds of terms and conditions about attending is basically telling you their worth
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/35137191-post9.html
Couldn’t agree more and last years rules and regulations from Stefan read like Dr. Fauci’s “do’s and dont’s” playbook even after the threat of Covid had subsided. It was never, never like this before. If I attend it will be at the original venue in Elk Grove.
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/35137191-post9.html
Couldn’t agree more and last years rules and regulations from Stefan read like Dr. Fauci’s “do’s and dont’s” playbook even after the threat of Covid had subsided. It was never, never like this before. If I attend it will be at the original venue in Elk Grove.
The same terms that are worrisome to you are on this year's Elk Grove Village Eventbrite page BTW.
By purchasing a registration to the Chicago Seminars at the Holiday Inn, you agree to the following:
GENERAL WAIVER, RELEASE, CONFIDENTIALITY and LIABILITY AGREEMENT (THE “AGREEMENT”)
GENERAL WAIVER OF LIABILITY & RELEASE PROVISIONS – I have/will receive(d) certain materials, program information, advice, information and/or services from Chicago Seminars at The Holiday Inn, and for other good and valuable consideration, the receipt and sufficiency of which is hereby acknowledged, I hereby agree to waive any and all current and/or future claims and causes of actions against the Chicago Seminars at The Holiday Inn and/or any individual or corporate sponsor (inclusive of any and all officers, directors, employees, agents, and successor and/or predecessor corporations if any) thereof, and/or any speaker or invited guest (together, the “Released Parties”), for any and all physical or pecuniary injuries, incidents, losses, or other occurrences that may befall me during my attendance at the Chicago Seminars at the Holiday Inn.
I further agree to waive any and all current or future claims and causes of action for economic harm or otherwise, as against the Released Parties, that may arise as a result of my reliance on any program information, procedures, advice, information or services that I may receive from Chicago Seminars at The Holiday Inn.
I further agree to hold harmless and to fully indemnify the Released Parties against any claims or causes of action, including claims for contribution, instituted by any third party or otherwise that may arise from my attendance at the Chicago Seminars at the Holiday Inn.
I further agree to waive any and all future claims and/or causes of action that may arise from my use of the information, advice or services provided by the Released Parties, and to indemnify and save harmless the Released Parties from any and all claims and causes of actions of third parties, including claims for contribution, arising from my reliance on any program, information, procedures, advice, information or services that I may receive from Chicago Seminars at The Holiday Inn at the Chicago Seminars at the Holiday Inn.
If for any reason, I commence a claim or take any proceeding against any party, which thereafter makes any claim over against or claim contribution and indemnity from the Released Parties, I undertake and covenant to have them dismissed at my own expense with express prejudice to bringing any further claim or other proceeding as against the Released Parties.
I further understand and agree that no warranty of any kind shall be created by the advice or information I receive from any of the Released Parties from Chicago Seminars at The Holiday Inn during the Chicago Seminars at the Holiday Inn, and further agree that I alone am responsible for assessing the utility, accuracy and truthfulness of any advice or information received during the Chicago Seminars at the Holiday Inn.
I further understand and agree that I may incidentally appear in video and/or photographs taken during the Chicago Seminars at the Holiday Inn, and that I will not receive compensation of any kind as a result thereof, whether used by the Released Parties for marketing purposes or otherwise.
CONFIDENTIALITY – I further understand and agree that the materials and information provided to me are the property of from Chicago Seminars at The Holiday Inn and/or the Released Parties, and will not be used by me, other than for my personal use, without the express written consent from the Chicago Seminars at The Holiday Inn, and that I will take all reasonable steps to keep the materials and information obtained confidential, expressly undertake and covenant to make no copies of the materials and/or to disclose the materials and/or advice, whether for financial gain or otherwise. I fully understand that I may be personally liable to the Chicago Seminars at The Holiday Inn and/or the Released Parties for any unauthorized use of the materials, advice and/or information received at the Chicago Seminars at the Holiday Inn.
Furthermore, I expressly agree, undertake, and covenant not to record by video, audio, or any other means the material discussed by speakers at the Chicago Seminars at the Holiday Inn.
GENERAL PROVISIONS – This Agreement shall be binding upon and shall inure to the benefit of the Released Parties, their successors, assigns, and personal representatives.
I expressly agree that this Agreement shall be construed as if written by both myself and the Released Parties, and shall not be construed as against the Released Parties, whether pursuant to the principles of contra proferentem, or otherwise.
I expressly agree that that this Agreement is intended to be as broad and inclusive as permitted by the laws of the State of Illinois and that this Agreement shall be governed by and interpreted in accordance with the laws of the State of Illinois. I expressly agree that in the event that any clause or provision of this Agreement is deemed invalid, the enforceability of the remaining provisions of this Agreement shall not be affected.
LIMITATION OF LIABILITY – I further expressly agree that should an Arbitrator or Court determine that any provision(s) in this Agreement is void, voidable, or unenforceable, and that any of the Released Parties are liable to me for any alleged losses, whether suffered by me, or a third party, that such liability will be limited to the sum of the fee paid by me for my attendance at the Chicago Seminars at the Holiday Inn.
I certify that I am at least eighteen (18) years of age or older, and am mentally competent to execute and enter into this Agreement.
I expressly understand that by executing this Agreement that I am affecting my current and future legal rights, and state that I have agreed to execute this Agreement without any duress or coercion.
By purchasing a registration to the Chicago Seminars at the Holiday Inn, I expressly acknowledge that I have read, understood, and agree to the terms and conditions of this Agreement, including, but not limited to, the General Waiver of Liability and Release provisions, the Confidentiality Clause, and the Limitation of Liability Clause, and that I enter into this Agreement willingly and voluntarily.
GENERAL WAIVER, RELEASE, CONFIDENTIALITY and LIABILITY AGREEMENT (THE “AGREEMENT”)
GENERAL WAIVER OF LIABILITY & RELEASE PROVISIONS – I have/will receive(d) certain materials, program information, advice, information and/or services from Chicago Seminars at The Holiday Inn, and for other good and valuable consideration, the receipt and sufficiency of which is hereby acknowledged, I hereby agree to waive any and all current and/or future claims and causes of actions against the Chicago Seminars at The Holiday Inn and/or any individual or corporate sponsor (inclusive of any and all officers, directors, employees, agents, and successor and/or predecessor corporations if any) thereof, and/or any speaker or invited guest (together, the “Released Parties”), for any and all physical or pecuniary injuries, incidents, losses, or other occurrences that may befall me during my attendance at the Chicago Seminars at the Holiday Inn.
I further agree to waive any and all current or future claims and causes of action for economic harm or otherwise, as against the Released Parties, that may arise as a result of my reliance on any program information, procedures, advice, information or services that I may receive from Chicago Seminars at The Holiday Inn.
I further agree to hold harmless and to fully indemnify the Released Parties against any claims or causes of action, including claims for contribution, instituted by any third party or otherwise that may arise from my attendance at the Chicago Seminars at the Holiday Inn.
I further agree to waive any and all future claims and/or causes of action that may arise from my use of the information, advice or services provided by the Released Parties, and to indemnify and save harmless the Released Parties from any and all claims and causes of actions of third parties, including claims for contribution, arising from my reliance on any program, information, procedures, advice, information or services that I may receive from Chicago Seminars at The Holiday Inn at the Chicago Seminars at the Holiday Inn.
If for any reason, I commence a claim or take any proceeding against any party, which thereafter makes any claim over against or claim contribution and indemnity from the Released Parties, I undertake and covenant to have them dismissed at my own expense with express prejudice to bringing any further claim or other proceeding as against the Released Parties.
I further understand and agree that no warranty of any kind shall be created by the advice or information I receive from any of the Released Parties from Chicago Seminars at The Holiday Inn during the Chicago Seminars at the Holiday Inn, and further agree that I alone am responsible for assessing the utility, accuracy and truthfulness of any advice or information received during the Chicago Seminars at the Holiday Inn.
I further understand and agree that I may incidentally appear in video and/or photographs taken during the Chicago Seminars at the Holiday Inn, and that I will not receive compensation of any kind as a result thereof, whether used by the Released Parties for marketing purposes or otherwise.
CONFIDENTIALITY – I further understand and agree that the materials and information provided to me are the property of from Chicago Seminars at The Holiday Inn and/or the Released Parties, and will not be used by me, other than for my personal use, without the express written consent from the Chicago Seminars at The Holiday Inn, and that I will take all reasonable steps to keep the materials and information obtained confidential, expressly undertake and covenant to make no copies of the materials and/or to disclose the materials and/or advice, whether for financial gain or otherwise. I fully understand that I may be personally liable to the Chicago Seminars at The Holiday Inn and/or the Released Parties for any unauthorized use of the materials, advice and/or information received at the Chicago Seminars at the Holiday Inn.
Furthermore, I expressly agree, undertake, and covenant not to record by video, audio, or any other means the material discussed by speakers at the Chicago Seminars at the Holiday Inn.
GENERAL PROVISIONS – This Agreement shall be binding upon and shall inure to the benefit of the Released Parties, their successors, assigns, and personal representatives.
I expressly agree that this Agreement shall be construed as if written by both myself and the Released Parties, and shall not be construed as against the Released Parties, whether pursuant to the principles of contra proferentem, or otherwise.
I expressly agree that that this Agreement is intended to be as broad and inclusive as permitted by the laws of the State of Illinois and that this Agreement shall be governed by and interpreted in accordance with the laws of the State of Illinois. I expressly agree that in the event that any clause or provision of this Agreement is deemed invalid, the enforceability of the remaining provisions of this Agreement shall not be affected.
LIMITATION OF LIABILITY – I further expressly agree that should an Arbitrator or Court determine that any provision(s) in this Agreement is void, voidable, or unenforceable, and that any of the Released Parties are liable to me for any alleged losses, whether suffered by me, or a third party, that such liability will be limited to the sum of the fee paid by me for my attendance at the Chicago Seminars at the Holiday Inn.
I certify that I am at least eighteen (18) years of age or older, and am mentally competent to execute and enter into this Agreement.
I expressly understand that by executing this Agreement that I am affecting my current and future legal rights, and state that I have agreed to execute this Agreement without any duress or coercion.
By purchasing a registration to the Chicago Seminars at the Holiday Inn, I expressly acknowledge that I have read, understood, and agree to the terms and conditions of this Agreement, including, but not limited to, the General Waiver of Liability and Release provisions, the Confidentiality Clause, and the Limitation of Liability Clause, and that I enter into this Agreement willingly and voluntarily.
Last edited by dr88; Jul 7, 2023 at 10:03 am
Jul 7, 2023, 10:16 am
#21
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Washington, DC
Programs: DL PM; IHG PlatAmb; Hilton Dia; Marriott Plat; Hyatt Discoverist
Posts: 7,324
Except it was like this before. There was a waiver and liability release back in 2018 at the original venue (https://www.eventbrite.com/e/chicago...=oddtdtcreator) and for previous years too.
The same terms that are worrisome to you are on this year's Elk Grove Village Eventbrite page BTW.
The same terms that are worrisome to you are on this year's Elk Grove Village Eventbrite page BTW.
My guess is that the organizers know that some of the "tips" or "hacks" sometimes straddle the illegality line, and if an attendee gets sued for, say, manipulating a mileage program, they don't want to get impleaded.
Jul 7, 2023, 10:36 am
#22
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 355
I agree. The events have always been worrisome and those clauses were always worrisome. I had not suggested that they were suddenly problematic, though someone else suggested so. (It's also weird to have a post in a FT thread that is just a waiver and release, since a post on a FT thread isn't a contract. But I chalk that up to the amateurness of the event organizers.)
My guess is that the organizers know that some of the "tips" or "hacks" sometimes straddle the illegality line, and if an attendee gets sued for, say, manipulating a mileage program, they don't want to get impleaded.
My guess is that the organizers know that some of the "tips" or "hacks" sometimes straddle the illegality line, and if an attendee gets sued for, say, manipulating a mileage program, they don't want to get impleaded.
I think people nitpicking and attempting to start more drama. Obviously posting a waiver and release in a Flyertalk thread doesn't constitute a binding contract, but there are those who would have all of the event info, including any rules or waivers consolidated on a FT thread. It's not a big deal and doesn't really speak one way or another on someone's ability to organize an event.
People can sue for any reason, whether it's getting banned from a program, getting into credit card debt from a credit card they were recommended to get during a seminar, or the shuttle running their foot over. It would be shortsighted for anyone organizing a paid event like these to not have waivers, rules, and releases in place.
Jul 7, 2023, 10:39 am
#23
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 355
Yeah, that makes me crack up everytime, as well as the "no criticism" rules. If someone's paying close to $200 for an event, deliver what was promised and be open to valid feedback.
Jul 7, 2023, 10:56 am
#24
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Washington, DC
Programs: DL PM; IHG PlatAmb; Hilton Dia; Marriott Plat; Hyatt Discoverist
Posts: 7,324
These waivers and releases are pretty standard in the event business and are nothing worth getting excited or anxious about.
I think people nitpicking and attempting to start more drama. Obviously posting a waiver and release in a Flyertalk thread doesn't constitute a binding contract, but there are those who would have all of the event info, including any rules or waivers consolidated on a FT thread. It's not a big deal and doesn't really speak one way or another on someone's ability to organize an event.
People can sue for any reason, whether it's getting banned from a program, getting into credit card debt from a credit card they were recommended to get during a seminar, or the shuttle running their foot over. It would be shortsighted for anyone organizing a paid event like these to not have waivers, rules, and releases in place.
I think people nitpicking and attempting to start more drama. Obviously posting a waiver and release in a Flyertalk thread doesn't constitute a binding contract, but there are those who would have all of the event info, including any rules or waivers consolidated on a FT thread. It's not a big deal and doesn't really speak one way or another on someone's ability to organize an event.
People can sue for any reason, whether it's getting banned from a program, getting into credit card debt from a credit card they were recommended to get during a seminar, or the shuttle running their foot over. It would be shortsighted for anyone organizing a paid event like these to not have waivers, rules, and releases in place.
To the extent some of these terms are standard for the event business, that illustrates the problem here. These are business (website/blog promotion) events masquerading as community ones. People are thus ranting that this is about *community* and we should all get together and hold hands, not realizing that the two events are the results of a lot of people trying to run business events unprofessionally.
You're free to think it's nitpicking, but it seems to be inextricably intertwined with the reason why there are two events going on now, people having to fight to get their names removed from promotional materials for an event, etc.
Last edited by Adam1222; Jul 7, 2023 at 11:02 am
Jul 7, 2023, 11:16 am
#25
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 355
Some of them are standard terms (though not really for nonprofit events, which this purports to be). Confidentiality, "good conduct," "no refunds and no chargebacks" less so. And if an event has them, I would think twice about attending.
To the extent some of these terms are standard for the event business, that illustrates the problem here. These are business (website/blog promotion) events masquerading as community ones. People are thus ranting that this is about *community* and we should all get together and hold hands, not realizing that the two events are the results of a lot of people trying to run business events unprofessionally.
You're free to think it's nitpicking, but it seems to be inextricably intertwined with the reason why there are two events going on now, people having to fight to get their names removed from promotional materials for an event, etc.
To the extent some of these terms are standard for the event business, that illustrates the problem here. These are business (website/blog promotion) events masquerading as community ones. People are thus ranting that this is about *community* and we should all get together and hold hands, not realizing that the two events are the results of a lot of people trying to run business events unprofessionally.
You're free to think it's nitpicking, but it seems to be inextricably intertwined with the reason why there are two events going on now, people having to fight to get their names removed from promotional materials for an event, etc.
I have no idea how much weight the "no chargebacks" clause carries, especially since their only remedy for people who file chargebacks is to ban them from future events. Why would someone who felt like they didn't get what was advertised want to go back to the same event?
I stick to the DOs primarily, and am never disappointed. It will be interesting to watch this play out though.
Oct 23, 2023, 8:10 am
#29
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: AUS
Programs: BAEC Gold, AA PPro, Hyatt Globalist, Amex Plat
Posts: 7,043
The points and miles community seems to be becoming like high school. I guess there are only so many credit card commissions to go around...
Regards