Anyone at the Fairfax, Virginia FTU? How is/was it?
Apr 28, 2013, 8:00 pm
#16
Original Member, Ambassador: External Miles and Points Resources
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Join Date: May 1998
Location: Digital Nomad Wandering the Earth - Currently in LIMA, PERU
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i went, and i was very underwhelmed.
met a lot of interesting people for sure. but 99% of the material was waaaaay too basic (a complaint i heard from more then a few people, many of them new). many of the sessions repeated a lot of the exact same materials
seems like lots of new people are involved in this hobby. most were inexperienced (though again, many thought it was too basic). a lot of newbies i met can off as extremely arrogant and a little know-it-all-ish; though many were nice. There were young bloggers hyping their blogs with wearing shrits with their blogger name pasted in large letters, which gave me a chuckle
SPG no showed in a session they were to sponser, which was dissappointing. i was looking most forward to that session.
$20k raised for charity!
overall, i loved meeting and talking to a bunch of interesting people, but the education aspect of it was disappointing.
met a lot of interesting people for sure. but 99% of the material was waaaaay too basic (a complaint i heard from more then a few people, many of them new). many of the sessions repeated a lot of the exact same materials
seems like lots of new people are involved in this hobby. most were inexperienced (though again, many thought it was too basic). a lot of newbies i met can off as extremely arrogant and a little know-it-all-ish; though many were nice. There were young bloggers hyping their blogs with wearing shrits with their blogger name pasted in large letters, which gave me a chuckle
SPG no showed in a session they were to sponser, which was dissappointing. i was looking most forward to that session.
$20k raised for charity!
overall, i loved meeting and talking to a bunch of interesting people, but the education aspect of it was disappointing.
Apr 28, 2013, 9:18 pm
#17
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: BWI
Posts: 1,782
This was my first event. It was very nice to meet people, both rookies and veterans. I can't say I learned that much, as some of it was pretty basic.
It was pretty balanced in my mind - not all about credit cards. I went to a mileage running forum, 2 on award booking, a secrets forum, Advanced Q&A etc. Only 2 were on credit cards, the majority were not.
I would say that if you read the blogs and FT and Milepoint, that the best part will be the social aspect because you already know a lot of the material. I'm glad I went, but I wouldn't go again unless it really was something that offered more advanced stuff. I drove from Baltimore so not springing for airfare was nice!
The program ran well and I think a lot of effort went into it.
It was pretty balanced in my mind - not all about credit cards. I went to a mileage running forum, 2 on award booking, a secrets forum, Advanced Q&A etc. Only 2 were on credit cards, the majority were not.
I would say that if you read the blogs and FT and Milepoint, that the best part will be the social aspect because you already know a lot of the material. I'm glad I went, but I wouldn't go again unless it really was something that offered more advanced stuff. I drove from Baltimore so not springing for airfare was nice!
The program ran well and I think a lot of effort went into it.
Last edited by farbster; Apr 28, 2013 at 9:18 pm Reason: typo
Apr 28, 2013, 10:40 pm
#18
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 6,385
Yes, that's the odd part.
My guess: This is a result of the Ponzi nature of these programs, in which devaluation must accelerate to stay ahead of the expectations of points earners.
From the beginning the programs were unsustainably generous. All Ponzi schemes are desperate for new players. The credit card issuing banks provide these new players to the travel companies. Even if the banks do not account for the majority of the miles and points issued, they do account for the majority of the revenue to the FF programs. That revenue is, to the travel company, discount-priced advance sale of its product.
To the travel company, someone opening a new credit card account for 50k miles is a buyer paying (via the bank) $500 for a ticket for travel a year or more in the future on a flight where the avoided cost is probably half the $500, maybe a lot less if the points can be further devalued before redemption. This is a highly profitable customer.
The bank is an indispensible partner in keeping the FF scheme alive. It stands to reason that the travel company treats the bank and the bank's customers well.
My guess: This is a result of the Ponzi nature of these programs, in which devaluation must accelerate to stay ahead of the expectations of points earners.
From the beginning the programs were unsustainably generous. All Ponzi schemes are desperate for new players. The credit card issuing banks provide these new players to the travel companies. Even if the banks do not account for the majority of the miles and points issued, they do account for the majority of the revenue to the FF programs. That revenue is, to the travel company, discount-priced advance sale of its product.
To the travel company, someone opening a new credit card account for 50k miles is a buyer paying (via the bank) $500 for a ticket for travel a year or more in the future on a flight where the avoided cost is probably half the $500, maybe a lot less if the points can be further devalued before redemption. This is a highly profitable customer.
The bank is an indispensible partner in keeping the FF scheme alive. It stands to reason that the travel company treats the bank and the bank's customers well.
Apr 29, 2013, 1:10 am
#19
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
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Points and miles programs (and especially elite programs) were developed to attract business travelers. Especially those who were, you know, frequent travelers. And back when FlyerTalk started in 1998 that's what it was all about: people who traveled frequently figuring out how to maximize return on that lifestyle by keying in on elite programs, miles accumulation and taking advantage of the occasional mistake fare or mega-bonus.
[...]
And so, to circle back around to eponymous_coward's point, these programs that were set up for frequent business travelers have been co-opted by points and miles hoarders, leading to weird situations like aspirational/adventure travelers staying at sterile business hotels.
[...]
And so, to circle back around to eponymous_coward's point, these programs that were set up for frequent business travelers have been co-opted by points and miles hoarders, leading to weird situations like aspirational/adventure travelers staying at sterile business hotels.
Also note that most airlines are out of ch11, which caused the massive loyalty benefits in order to keep people interested in spending money in booking future travel with an airline of uncertain future.
During the ch11 and economic turmoil they sold miles to CC companies for long term cash deals that they now have to disburse. Very odd situation.
My sincere hope is that in 2-3 years the big three will treat the FFP system like Delta does today. That should calm down things
Apr 29, 2013, 7:43 am
#20
Original Member, Ambassador: External Miles and Points Resources
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Join Date: May 1998
Location: Digital Nomad Wandering the Earth - Currently in LIMA, PERU
Posts: 58,624
This was my first event. It was very nice to meet people, both rookies and veterans. I can't say I learned that much, as some of it was pretty basic.
It was pretty balanced in my mind - not all about credit cards. I went to a mileage running forum, 2 on award booking, a secrets forum, Advanced Q&A etc. Only 2 were on credit cards, the majority were not.
I would say that if you read the blogs and FT and Milepoint, that the best part will be the social aspect because you already know a lot of the material. I'm glad I went, but I wouldn't go again unless it really was something that offered more advanced stuff. I drove from Baltimore so not springing for airfare was nice!
The program ran well and I think a lot of effort went into it.
It was pretty balanced in my mind - not all about credit cards. I went to a mileage running forum, 2 on award booking, a secrets forum, Advanced Q&A etc. Only 2 were on credit cards, the majority were not.
I would say that if you read the blogs and FT and Milepoint, that the best part will be the social aspect because you already know a lot of the material. I'm glad I went, but I wouldn't go again unless it really was something that offered more advanced stuff. I drove from Baltimore so not springing for airfare was nice!
The program ran well and I think a lot of effort went into it.
Why do people pay to be spoon fed something they have already eaten for free?
I do get the social aspect of it. But that's what Do's and happy hours are for, without having to cover the overhead of meals and meeting rooms and travel and per diems for the 'expert' presenters.
I am sure you are sworn to secrecy on the material from the secrets forum, but can you reveal whether or not the 'secrets' discussed there were really all that secret?
Apr 29, 2013, 7:47 am
#21
Original Member, Ambassador: External Miles and Points Resources
Original Poster
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Digital Nomad Wandering the Earth - Currently in LIMA, PERU
Posts: 58,624
Also note that most airlines are out of ch11, which caused the massive loyalty benefits in order to keep people interested in spending money in booking future travel with an airline of uncertain future.
During the ch11 and economic turmoil they sold miles to CC companies for long term cash deals that they now have to disburse. Very odd situation.
My sincere hope is that in 2-3 years the big three will treat the FFP system like Delta does today. That should calm down things
During the ch11 and economic turmoil they sold miles to CC companies for long term cash deals that they now have to disburse. Very odd situation.
My sincere hope is that in 2-3 years the big three will treat the FFP system like Delta does today. That should calm down things
The Alpha on an investment like that has got to be in the negative hundreds, right!?
Apr 29, 2013, 9:01 am
#22
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: BWI
Posts: 1,782
I really don't know if they were "real secrets" or just things that very few people know/care about.
One in particular was discussed at lunch. A woman at our table said that she works in the travel industry on the provider side and that they know when people are trying to do one of the tricks. I don't want to go and say too much, but some might say the secret was ethically pretty gray.
I guess you could go to Sundance and not really love the movies, but the whole experience is awesome or people go to the Superbowl and their team isn't even playing and they have a blast with the whole atmosphere.
One in particular was discussed at lunch. A woman at our table said that she works in the travel industry on the provider side and that they know when people are trying to do one of the tricks. I don't want to go and say too much, but some might say the secret was ethically pretty gray.
I guess you could go to Sundance and not really love the movies, but the whole experience is awesome or people go to the Superbowl and their team isn't even playing and they have a blast with the whole atmosphere.
I guess that's sort of my point: if you can read and you know that FlyerTalk exists then you know as much as (if not more than) any of the 'expert' presenters.
Why do people pay to be spoon fed something they have already eaten for free?
I do get the social aspect of it. But that's what Do's and happy hours are for, without having to cover the overhead of meals and meeting rooms and travel and per diems for the 'expert' presenters.
I am sure you are sworn to secrecy on the material from the secrets forum, but can you reveal whether or not the 'secrets' discussed there were really all that secret?
Why do people pay to be spoon fed something they have already eaten for free?
I do get the social aspect of it. But that's what Do's and happy hours are for, without having to cover the overhead of meals and meeting rooms and travel and per diems for the 'expert' presenters.
I am sure you are sworn to secrecy on the material from the secrets forum, but can you reveal whether or not the 'secrets' discussed there were really all that secret?
Last edited by farbster; Apr 29, 2013 at 9:02 am Reason: typo
Apr 29, 2013, 9:03 am
#23
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: BUF
Programs: SPG Plt, HHonors Gold, UA Gold, PC Plat, Marriott Gold
Posts: 880
I though the secrets were of extremely limited use. They were running long so they cut that to a total of five "secrets"
I'm going to break a rule and tell one of the five secrets - the hardest part of a delta international award is getting to the international gateway. thus expect to pay 140k miles for business class RT with skymiles. That was seriously one of the five secrets.
in fairness it came with a part 2: you can't route to africa through the middle east with AA miles. so expect that reward to cost more. but that was seriously one participatants contribution on the panel
Apr 29, 2013, 9:31 am
#25
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Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PSM
Posts: 69,232
Agreed, and I was one of the people on stage. That session has always been of somewhat limited potential IMO and I dislike that it is built up so much on the marketing side. But I'm not involved in that so I doubt my opinion carries much weight there. I was also quite disappointed with the "Debbie Downer" bit given that it isn't universally true and certainly wasn't something I'd consider helpful to the group.
I had a great time at the event and met a bunch more new friends in addition to seeing many old ones. I don't think that it makes sense for most people to be repeat visitors unless they're attending for the social aspect - there aren't that many changes YoY in the programs to justify it. And I think that applies to FTU and the Chicago seminars equally.
At the end of the day I think that it simply becomes a matter of format more than content. Sure, I can get (nearly) the same content scouring the websites and doing the legwork myself. I can also attend an event and get the content in a presentation format, somewhat edited and hopefully more coherent. There is nothing wrong with either approach; it is a matter of personal preference.
Apr 29, 2013, 11:39 am
#26
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Programs: AA EXP(.96MM), AMEX Platinum, United Premier Silver, Delta Gold, SPG Platinum 50, Hilton Gold VIP
Posts: 1,744
here's what you missed from #FTUDC if you didn't attend...
http://first2board.com/pointssummary...er-university/
http://first2board.com/pointssummary...er-university/
Apr 29, 2013, 12:16 pm
#27
Original Member, Ambassador: External Miles and Points Resources
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Join Date: May 1998
Location: Digital Nomad Wandering the Earth - Currently in LIMA, PERU
Posts: 58,624
here's what you missed from #FTUDC if you didn't attend...
http://first2board.com/pointssummary...er-university/
http://first2board.com/pointssummary...er-university/
And great to see so many women at the erstwhile sausage party (even if they did sorority girl up and circle the wagons!
)
Apr 29, 2013, 2:25 pm
#28
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,738
Always some irony in these events... bloggers giving "secrets" during lectures asking them not to share to the outside world.
The even doesn't seem very expensive to attend, but it seems like you are paying more for the social aspect of meeting up with other frequent travelers that share similar passions.
The even doesn't seem very expensive to attend, but it seems like you are paying more for the social aspect of meeting up with other frequent travelers that share similar passions.
Apr 29, 2013, 2:34 pm
#29
Join Date: Jun 2012
Programs: SPG Platinum, UA GS
Posts: 121
Rather than being ironic, it suggests that (some) bloggers exercise greater discretion in what they post than some may give them credit for. @:-)
Apr 29, 2013, 8:06 pm
#30
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PSM
Posts: 69,232
Indeed. Many of the same topics are discussed in other settings the world over; just not online in mass communications.