gengar

So you've gone from attempting to raise 'flight crew member coughing without a mask on' to 'flight crew member consuming alcohol preflight' and now to 'a total failure by the flight crew to understand how their plane's automation worked resulting in unintended deactivation of systems that would have prevented the accident, failure to monitor airspeed during the critical phase of landing, multiple violations of critical flight SOPs, and inadequate training by the operating airline'. OK man, you do you.

Also, you should either actually read the NTSB report (https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/...ts/AAR1401.pdf) or "highlighted" doesn't mean what you think it means.

strife

I really do not understand the hysteria about safety here. A pilot coughed without a mask on. To try to compare this to a pilot flying while intoxicated or to a crew violating descent rate guidelines for several minutes resulting in a crash seems ridiculous. If anything, I would hope that pilots would not be worried about others not wearing a mask when they are supposed to be flying a plane.

hayzel7773

Once again, there is no proof the gentleman coughed without a mask. The allegations, corroborated by both FO's, is he didn't wear a mask onboard, in violation of airline policy and CECC policy. Reference the official EVA statement:
https://www.evaair.com/en-global/abo...ouncement.html

username

In the earlier reporting in the Taiwanese media, which as we all know are not exactly the most reliable, the pilot was coughing and not wearing a mask. If you think about it, why would the first officers ask the captain to wear a mask if he was not coughing - they would probably let it go even though it violated the rules. So, I think there is some truth to that.

I am not a pilot but my understanding of the CRM principles is that you have to be able to communicate effectively and do the right thing even if a lower ranked member brings up an issue. In this case, the FOs asked the captain to follow rules and he ignored. So, in my mind, the principle was violated and it is a CRM issue.

Yes, this is a tiny issue that won't lead to crashes. However, a lot of this comes back to BR's reputation of being a disciplined company. We expect more from it and this is why I am scratching my head over this episode.

hayzel7773

It could be that he was coughing, or it could be that the FO's asked him to wear a mask because if they were caught, they were all on the hook per the CECC/MOTC/CAA policy, or it could be they were strict abiders by the mask policy. We will never know. I think it's wrong to assume he was coughing just because it made the news or the Internet forums.

With regards to CRM, you are correct that you must do the right thing even if it's a lower ranked member. However, in my initial ATP training, and with most airline training, CRM training only applies to flight-critical events/phases. Mask wearing is not one of them. Beyond those situations, cockpit discussions are really just up to your personality. Considering the FOs didn't even bother mentioning anything in the post-flight reports until they contracted COVID-19 and were contacted by the airline, we will never really know whether the "asking him to wear a mask" was more a reminder of "remember we have to wear masks" during the initial briefing/flight or a "would you mind putting a mask on per policy/out of respect". I certainly hope that beyond this "breakdown", there was no degradation of performance on the part of either FO. If you are spooked by this "breakdown in CRM", you will be horrified at the industry in general. "CRM breakdowns", even at the safest airlines in the world, happen every flight. No matter how disciplined a company is, you can never alter everyone's cognitive thinking/function to be perfectly aligned with the manual.

I am waiting for the CAA/MOTC to face its day of reckoning when there is a depressurization and the pilot is wearing a mask. What a dangerous policy. Quick-dons require a very tight seal to force pressurized O2 into the pilot's lungs or the pilot will lose consciousness. Just O2 flowing through the mask at that altitude is not enough. If a beard/facial scruff can prevent a tight seal, one can only imagine the effects of a mask. At FL350, pilots have 30-60 seconds of "useful consciousness", of which 50% is lost to the rapid escape of air from one's lungs and the human body response. Taking off the face mask and grabbing/donning the o2 mask is very dangerous in terms of time (FAA requires 5 seconds for mask-donning, the real time is more like 10-20s in real life depending on whether one is wearing a headset).

strife

With all due respect, surely just by rereading your post you should quickly realize how presumptive and contradictive it is? You admit the news is disputed and the source is historically unreliable but you invent a presumption which allows you to backtrack and ignore that lack of reliabliity. You admit there is no risk of the event that CRM is designed to minimize but you invent a presumption about the company so that you can backtrack and claim CRM was violated. It is bewildering the lengths you are going to just to reach the conclusion that you want to reach

east_west

The part of this entire episode that doesn't make sense is why the Taiwanese government requires a two-week mandated quarantine for passengers, but not crew.

gengar

IIRC the stated rationale from the CECC is that the FAs wear those hazmat-style suits and the flight crews don't interact with passengers. I agree that it doesn't make much sense.

username

I was just throwing things out there, including my thoughts from different view points, for opinions from those who know the subject and EVA better - but not personal attacks.

hayzel7773

Most countries don't have a two-week quarantine for airline crew. The nature of the business is travel. It makes zero sense and it'll even kill things like cargo flights since not all flights can have a pit stop for crew change. Why don't the ground crew, line maintenance, immigration officers etc. have to two-week quarantine as well then? They're coming into contact with the crew as well.

Taiwan required 3-days company dorm quarantine + 10 days of self management for flight crew and 5 days company dorm quarantine + 10 days of self management for cabin crew. The rule is now 7+7 for both flight crew and cabin crew, thanks to this wonderful story and the 7 others at BR.

gengar

Most countries don't have Taiwan's quarantine either. That's the point.

BlackHappy

They can also stay at home in lieu of the company dorm. (Same caveats apply about personal living spaces as other quarantining passengers.) They can also fly during the self management period.

strife

It was not a "personal attack". The point is that CRM issues are CRM issues and safety issues are safety issues; injecting personal presumptions at best clouds rational discussion of these issues. A non-CRM issue on a BR flight does not become a CRM issue due to your personal preconceptions of BR culture any more than a CRM issue on a CI flight somehow becomes a non-CRM issue because CI has a terrible safety record.