Schengen --> Ukraine --> Schengen (Spain-Italy), Allowed?
Jul 23, 2021, 10:08 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Mexico City, MX
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Posts: 266
Schengen --> Ukraine --> Schengen (Spain-Italy), Allowed?
Hey guys,
I'm planning a Europe trip, i'm getting into Copenhagen next week via Frankfurt, I'm US citizen, vaxed with CDC card, coming in from Mexico, that part all seems fine, then going to spend a few days in the baltics, that seems easy as well.
I ran into an issue though. I was planning on spending 2 weeks in Ukraine and then heading to Italy and Spain "on my way out" but then realized based on what i'm reading that once I step foot in Ukraine, I would not be allowed into either country in the moment even with US passport and vax card until i've spent 14 days in an EU country that does accept people coming from Ukraine (like Germany).
I saw the EU commission has "suggested" that Ukraine be removed from high risk or added to low risk but its up to the individual countries to do so, it seems France and Germany have but Italy and Spain have not ....
Would it be advisable to move the trip around and stay in the EU? Or is this all just scary stuff on paper and once you show them your vax card and US passport you're ok? (and yes I know some additional paperwork or pass to enter Italy)
What do you guys advise?
I'm planning a Europe trip, i'm getting into Copenhagen next week via Frankfurt, I'm US citizen, vaxed with CDC card, coming in from Mexico, that part all seems fine, then going to spend a few days in the baltics, that seems easy as well.
I ran into an issue though. I was planning on spending 2 weeks in Ukraine and then heading to Italy and Spain "on my way out" but then realized based on what i'm reading that once I step foot in Ukraine, I would not be allowed into either country in the moment even with US passport and vax card until i've spent 14 days in an EU country that does accept people coming from Ukraine (like Germany).
I saw the EU commission has "suggested" that Ukraine be removed from high risk or added to low risk but its up to the individual countries to do so, it seems France and Germany have but Italy and Spain have not ....
Would it be advisable to move the trip around and stay in the EU? Or is this all just scary stuff on paper and once you show them your vax card and US passport you're ok? (and yes I know some additional paperwork or pass to enter Italy)
What do you guys advise?
Jul 25, 2021, 2:54 am
#2
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Brighton. UK
Programs: BA Gold / VS /IHG Diamond & Ambassador
Posts: 14,200
At the moment it's best to keep trips as simple as possible.
As you have seen individual nations can still restrict who enters their country and under what conditions.
These restrctions are real and not just 'scary stuff on paper'. You must comply with the rules and merely showing your US passport and CDC card won't make them fall away.
As you have seen individual nations can still restrict who enters their country and under what conditions.
These restrctions are real and not just 'scary stuff on paper'. You must comply with the rules and merely showing your US passport and CDC card won't make them fall away.
Jul 25, 2021, 6:03 am
#3
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: LHR/ATH
Programs: Amex Platinum, LH SEN (Gold), BA Bronze
Posts: 4,489
Hey guys,
I'm planning a Europe trip, i'm getting into Copenhagen next week via Frankfurt, I'm US citizen, vaxed with CDC card, coming in from Mexico, that part all seems fine, then going to spend a few days in the baltics, that seems easy as well.
I ran into an issue though. I was planning on spending 2 weeks in Ukraine and then heading to Italy and Spain "on my way out" but then realized based on what i'm reading that once I step foot in Ukraine, I would not be allowed into either country in the moment even with US passport and vax card until i've spent 14 days in an EU country that does accept people coming from Ukraine (like Germany).
I saw the EU commission has "suggested" that Ukraine be removed from high risk or added to low risk but its up to the individual countries to do so, it seems France and Germany have but Italy and Spain have not ....
Would it be advisable to move the trip around and stay in the EU? Or is this all just scary stuff on paper and once you show them your vax card and US passport you're ok? (and yes I know some additional paperwork or pass to enter Italy)
What do you guys advise?
I'm planning a Europe trip, i'm getting into Copenhagen next week via Frankfurt, I'm US citizen, vaxed with CDC card, coming in from Mexico, that part all seems fine, then going to spend a few days in the baltics, that seems easy as well.
I ran into an issue though. I was planning on spending 2 weeks in Ukraine and then heading to Italy and Spain "on my way out" but then realized based on what i'm reading that once I step foot in Ukraine, I would not be allowed into either country in the moment even with US passport and vax card until i've spent 14 days in an EU country that does accept people coming from Ukraine (like Germany).
I saw the EU commission has "suggested" that Ukraine be removed from high risk or added to low risk but its up to the individual countries to do so, it seems France and Germany have but Italy and Spain have not ....
Would it be advisable to move the trip around and stay in the EU? Or is this all just scary stuff on paper and once you show them your vax card and US passport you're ok? (and yes I know some additional paperwork or pass to enter Italy)
What do you guys advise?
Jul 25, 2021, 1:00 pm
#4
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 1,656
As far as I can tell, based on rules posted by Spain, entry from 3rd countries (except those with "variant" virus, which include Brazil and India etc) is permitted for several categories of passengers, including those fully vaccinated, as well as US citizens (either vaccinated or in possession of a negative COVID test). Ukraine (and even Russia) are currently included on the list of those "3rd countries".
At least that is my reading of the currently posted rules. The only danger (in my case) is if one of these (Russia in particular) moves to the "variant" list.
See for example https://www.traveldoc.aero/
Or am I not reading it right?
P.S. The link above does say that US citizens have to arrive from the US (or one of the "safe" countries on the list), but still shows that those with proof of vaccination are admissible. The "Timatic" link here https://www.iatatravelcentre.com/world.php seems to suggest a more lenient set of rules, as I mentioned above (showing that US residents are admissible).
I am not sure what the airlines use or see between the two. It would seem as though a vaccination certificate should work in either case. Sure hope so, as my return tickets include a self-transfer in Spain, so def. need to re-enter.
At least that is my reading of the currently posted rules. The only danger (in my case) is if one of these (Russia in particular) moves to the "variant" list.
See for example https://www.traveldoc.aero/
Or am I not reading it right?
P.S. The link above does say that US citizens have to arrive from the US (or one of the "safe" countries on the list), but still shows that those with proof of vaccination are admissible. The "Timatic" link here https://www.iatatravelcentre.com/world.php seems to suggest a more lenient set of rules, as I mentioned above (showing that US residents are admissible).
I am not sure what the airlines use or see between the two. It would seem as though a vaccination certificate should work in either case. Sure hope so, as my return tickets include a self-transfer in Spain, so def. need to re-enter.
Last edited by tr3k; Jul 25, 2021 at 3:50 pm
Jul 25, 2021, 4:03 pm
#5
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 1,656
Follow up - I went through the Spanish health form (all the way to the last page, except for actually agreeing to the affidavit and submitting it). Arrival from Russia for purposes of "tourism" while in possession of a COVID vaccination certificate appeared to be accepted.
There is, of course, a chance that at that very last step, if I pressed "I agree", the form would pop up with "you shall not enter" (and I don't want to actually submit incorrect arrival information). But at least based on the entries until that point - admissibility seems to be fine.
There is, of course, a chance that at that very last step, if I pressed "I agree", the form would pop up with "you shall not enter" (and I don't want to actually submit incorrect arrival information). But at least based on the entries until that point - admissibility seems to be fine.
Jul 26, 2021, 7:43 am
#6
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Mexico City, MX
Programs: No airline/hotel status use, Chase UR, Amex MR, CapOne etc
Posts: 266
Hey everyone,
So Ukraine was added to the EU recommended green list but not all countries have followed suit, france and germany have while italy and spain haven't. Therefore I rerouted my trip to to head to Italy from the baltics which is currently allowed, and then finish my trip in Kiev.
Im traveling to Denmark, Latvia, Lithuania, Italy and Ukraine but I looked all the restrictions up other than Italy everywhere else seems pretty chill about rules, many don't require test for fully vaxed, but i'm gonna always get a test between countries just in case. (esp since now they are moving to "digital pass" and its possible they may not accept CDC card, though word on the ground is they are)
Not sure if rule is based on passport or where you been last 14 days but best not to risk.
I would recommend to others thinking about traveling between multiple countries to check, one thing I noticed reading lots of the rules in most of these EU countries is that other EU countries are typically "OK to come from unless otherwise stated" whereas outside the EU (including countries in Europe) its "not allowed unless otherwise stated" so if popping into places like Serbia, Ukraine, Russia check the rules first otherwise you might be locked out of the next stop for 14 days.
We'll see how strict they are on the ground though.
So Ukraine was added to the EU recommended green list but not all countries have followed suit, france and germany have while italy and spain haven't. Therefore I rerouted my trip to to head to Italy from the baltics which is currently allowed, and then finish my trip in Kiev.
Im traveling to Denmark, Latvia, Lithuania, Italy and Ukraine but I looked all the restrictions up other than Italy everywhere else seems pretty chill about rules, many don't require test for fully vaxed, but i'm gonna always get a test between countries just in case. (esp since now they are moving to "digital pass" and its possible they may not accept CDC card, though word on the ground is they are)
Not sure if rule is based on passport or where you been last 14 days but best not to risk.
I would recommend to others thinking about traveling between multiple countries to check, one thing I noticed reading lots of the rules in most of these EU countries is that other EU countries are typically "OK to come from unless otherwise stated" whereas outside the EU (including countries in Europe) its "not allowed unless otherwise stated" so if popping into places like Serbia, Ukraine, Russia check the rules first otherwise you might be locked out of the next stop for 14 days.
We'll see how strict they are on the ground though.
Jul 26, 2021, 9:44 am
#7
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Brighton. UK
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The rules are based on where you have been in the last 14 days not what passport you have. I as a UK passpot holder can visit the US but only if I've spent the last 14 days in a 'safe' country...Same as a US passport holder can visit the UK but again only if they have spent time in a safe counrty
And tney will be strict on the ground in applying the rules. If you are getting a flight and the destination country has requirements you won't be boarding if you don't meet them.
And tney will be strict on the ground in applying the rules. If you are getting a flight and the destination country has requirements you won't be boarding if you don't meet them.
Jul 26, 2021, 11:32 am
#8
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 1,656
The rules are based on a number of conditions, not necessarily overlapping. Here is a quote from Timatic for Spain:
Note the bolded text (mine). I see at least two exemptions. The second one, in particular, seems to allow passengers holding a proof of vaccination (with an approved vaccine) to enter from anywhere except Brazil or South Africa. I see no mention of "14 day rules" or other restrictions on this particular item.
1. Until 31 July 2021, passengers are not allowed to enter.
This does not apply to:
nationals and residents of Andorra, Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Czechia, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland (Rep.), Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Monaco, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, San Marino, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland or Vatican City (Holy See);
residents of Albania, Armenia, Australia, Azerbaijan, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Brunei Darussalam, Canada, China (Peoples Rep.), Chinese Taipei, Hong Kong (SAR China), Israel, Japan, Jordan, Korea (Rep.), Kosovo (Rep.), Lebanon, Macao (SAR China), Moldova (Rep.), Montenegro, New Zealand, North Macedonia (Rep.), Qatar, Rwanda, Saudi Arabia, Serbia, Singapore, Thailand, United Kingdom or USA;
passengers arriving from Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Czechia, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland (Rep.), Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Sweden or Switzerland;
passengers with a long-term visa issued by a Schengen Member State returning via Spain to their country of residence;
passengers with a diplomatic passport traveling on duty;
merchant seamen;
military personnel;
immediate family members of a national of an EU Member State traveling together or traveling to join the national of an EU Member State;
passengers who are unmarried partners of nationals of Spain. They must have a confirmation of their relationship issued by a consulate of Spain;
passengers older than 11 years with a COVID-19 vaccination certificate showing that they were fully vaccinated with AstraZeneca (Vaxzevria), Janssen, Moderna or Pfizer-BioNTech, Serum Institute of India, Sinopharm or Sinovac at least 14 days before arrival. They must be arriving from a country other than Brazil or South Africa;
passengers younger than 12 years traveling with their parents who have been fully vaccinated;
students with proof of being enrolled in a course in Austria, Belgium, Czechia, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden or Switzerland. They must:
have a medical insurance; and
be traveling to the country where they study, at most 15 days before the start of the course.
2. Until 3 August 2021, flights from Brazil and South Africa to Spain are suspended.
This does not apply to:
nationals and residents of Andorra and Spain;
passengers transiting through Spain to a non-Schengen Member State.
3. Passengers must have:
a negative COVID-19 rapid antigen test taken at most 48 hours before arrival. The test result must be in English, French, German, Spanish or accompanied by a certified Spanish translation; or
a negative COVID-19 NAAT test taken at most 72 hours before arrival. Tests accepted are: CRISPR, HAD, LAMP, NEAR, PCR, RT-LAMP, RT-PCR, SDA and TMA. The test result must be in English, French, German, Spanish or accompanied by a certified Spanish translation; or
a COVID-19 vaccination certificate showing that they were fully vaccinated with AstraZeneca (Vaxzevria), Janssen, Moderna or Pfizer-BioNTech, Serum Institute of India, Sinopharm or Sinovac at least 14 days before arrival; or
a COVID-19 recovery certificate issued at least 11 days after the positive COVID-19 NAAT test result. The sample for the certificate must have been taken at most 180 days before arrival.
....
This does not apply to:
nationals and residents of Andorra, Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Czechia, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland (Rep.), Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Monaco, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, San Marino, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland or Vatican City (Holy See);
residents of Albania, Armenia, Australia, Azerbaijan, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Brunei Darussalam, Canada, China (Peoples Rep.), Chinese Taipei, Hong Kong (SAR China), Israel, Japan, Jordan, Korea (Rep.), Kosovo (Rep.), Lebanon, Macao (SAR China), Moldova (Rep.), Montenegro, New Zealand, North Macedonia (Rep.), Qatar, Rwanda, Saudi Arabia, Serbia, Singapore, Thailand, United Kingdom or USA;
passengers arriving from Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Czechia, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland (Rep.), Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Sweden or Switzerland;
passengers with a long-term visa issued by a Schengen Member State returning via Spain to their country of residence;
passengers with a diplomatic passport traveling on duty;
merchant seamen;
military personnel;
immediate family members of a national of an EU Member State traveling together or traveling to join the national of an EU Member State;
passengers who are unmarried partners of nationals of Spain. They must have a confirmation of their relationship issued by a consulate of Spain;
passengers older than 11 years with a COVID-19 vaccination certificate showing that they were fully vaccinated with AstraZeneca (Vaxzevria), Janssen, Moderna or Pfizer-BioNTech, Serum Institute of India, Sinopharm or Sinovac at least 14 days before arrival. They must be arriving from a country other than Brazil or South Africa;
passengers younger than 12 years traveling with their parents who have been fully vaccinated;
students with proof of being enrolled in a course in Austria, Belgium, Czechia, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden or Switzerland. They must:
have a medical insurance; and
be traveling to the country where they study, at most 15 days before the start of the course.
2. Until 3 August 2021, flights from Brazil and South Africa to Spain are suspended.
This does not apply to:
nationals and residents of Andorra and Spain;
passengers transiting through Spain to a non-Schengen Member State.
3. Passengers must have:
a negative COVID-19 rapid antigen test taken at most 48 hours before arrival. The test result must be in English, French, German, Spanish or accompanied by a certified Spanish translation; or
a negative COVID-19 NAAT test taken at most 72 hours before arrival. Tests accepted are: CRISPR, HAD, LAMP, NEAR, PCR, RT-LAMP, RT-PCR, SDA and TMA. The test result must be in English, French, German, Spanish or accompanied by a certified Spanish translation; or
a COVID-19 vaccination certificate showing that they were fully vaccinated with AstraZeneca (Vaxzevria), Janssen, Moderna or Pfizer-BioNTech, Serum Institute of India, Sinopharm or Sinovac at least 14 days before arrival; or
a COVID-19 recovery certificate issued at least 11 days after the positive COVID-19 NAAT test result. The sample for the certificate must have been taken at most 180 days before arrival.
....