Hello Everyone,

I think there is some confusion and I haven't been clear based on the conversation bouncing around at the time. We currently don't have Children. The reason the conversation was focused around kids at the start is we plan to have them very soon and were considering not traveling after we had them internationally. This is why the trip is labeled as a Potentially Last Trip for a while. It should be Potentially last international trip for a while. So kids won't be an issue, it will be my wife and I. On a side note, we are reconsidering international travel if we have kids, because of this post. We were pretty much 90/10 on not doing any before I posted here, its probably somewhere between 60/40 to 75/25 now not doing it. So we have moved our opinions quite a bit thanks to your insights.

I apologize I wasn't clear on our preferences. I thought I had been the trip is for historical views, not food, not immersion in the current culture. I feel we will experience all of that and are open to it as we go along, but I'm not going specifically to taste the food and we aren't really drinkers. A little backstory is that during college I spent 6 weeks in Athens and I was able to pop over to Rome with friends for a long weekend. We spent 1 day in Venice and 2 days in Rome, it was all the time we had. We missed the Sistine Chapel, because it was closed on Sunday and we came the weekend after the free one. Anywho, I was not that impressed with Venice while we were there. It felt like we walked the entire city in 12-18 hours and then took an overnight train to Rome, at least I recall it being overnight, I could be miss remembering that. Just for clarification sake, I have been there, but my wife has not been anywhere in Italy. The we I refer to here, is my college friends.

Pompeii is a must and I'm okay with losing a day to travel there, see it and return from a "home base". The Vatican is a must, my wives family was Catholic at one point before she was born or her extended family was, not exactly sure. The reason Milan is on the list is we have enough points to fly into it and fly out of FCO that allows us to use points for hotel stays. I can get the entire stay on points all 14 days along with trip travel. My Capital One should have enough points to pay for a majority of train costs and other miscellaneous travel. So that is why the preference is arrival MXP and departure FCO. Plus my wife wanted to be a model when she was younger, but decided against it. I thought seeing Milan the fashion capital of the world or close to it, would be cool for her.

I'm really torn on Venice. You all speak highly of it, but it smelled during July when we were in college. We walked a lot of it, I have pictures with tons of birds flying around me, road a gondola, though my wife hasn't. So I am just not sure about it, but I haven't research it or Florence yet. I am starting too, I know mostly about Rome/Pompeii/Herculaneum.

We are not huge international travelers. We do roughly 1 trip a year, that credit card points pay for and those trips are mixed with beach vacations. Our chances of coming back to Italy are very tiny compared to the rest of you who range from Travel photographers to Independently wealthy people with houses in Italy. It would be a great Luxury, but both of us have so many other places we want to see and say we have been the list is so long. I want to see Japan, China, Hong Kong, Egypt(1st on List tied with Italy), London, Paris, and Germany. My wife wants to see Athens, to see where I did study abroad, Bora Bora, Fiji and any other major beach place.

If you take the scenario above with 1 international trip a year and that doesn't include us wanting to find time for Mexico/Canada exploration it would be ten years if we traveled with kids before we think we could return or perhaps 20 if we waited till the kids are 10 like we had planned. It is why we were trying to see the major cities to kind of checklist them, so to speak.

Rome/Pompeii are the heart of our trip. However, the important things in Rome is the Vatican, Sistine Chapel, Colosseum and perhaps the fountain. We aren't huge museum people, but we will check a few out here and there. I don't have to spend hours at each site as a person. I just like the fact I've been there, that I can speak a little about it with others and I do value when we have time to deep dive, but it isn't a must for either of us. We aren't people that rush around either, we take a leisurely pace and tend to pick 3-5 must sees while in every place. If we make it to three of them, great if not, its a bummer but no huge loss.

Life could change for us and we could start traveling more, we have discussed that as well. It is so funny how people view heavy travelers. We are known as massive travelers with my wives family and our friends, because we do one huge trip a year and then about 5-7 small ones within the US. If we traveled like those of you who have done so many places and the same places so many times, I don't know what our friends and family would call us haha. They think we travel the world as is.

I hope this better explains why I was trying to see so much, where our mind is, etc. There is a lot we don't know. Such as will we travel with kids in the future, will we try to find more time/resources for more international trips or will we finally fall in love with a place that lets beckons us to return over and over there?? I don't know any of those answers. I have been to NYC multiple times and to Chicago multiple times. I don't love returned trips there to be quite frank, I enjoy going and normally we go with people who haven't went before as a weekend trip or our traveling friends who love Chicago. That is another thing, our traveling friend couple is having a kid in December. They aren't traveling for multiple years, which is one reason we started thinking about what we would do.

I know this is a long post and a lot to explore. I wanted to be clarify and explain our focus. I know it probably seems like we are crazy, I can just see the branching paths before us, knowing that our days of doing International Travel maybe put on pause for reasons that you might not understand, but make sense for us.

Does this change anyone's view of how we should hit Italy? Of where we should go? Anything I can clarify? I truly apologize that I haven't explained this very well. I thought I was pretty clear on the reasons "history" and Pompeii..

Thanks

[QUOTE=allset2travel;33424579]Well, about my personal preference for visiting Japan, Italy and China, not sure where to start.
First Japan: Love the culture, my wife and I both love their food (all kinds), and I am a travel photographer (Japan has plenty to shoot). Japan is the safest place to travel, IMHO. On top of that I had spent a few years working for a Japanese multi-national in hi-tech. Still have many friends in and around Tokyo. Cherry blossom and fall foliage are 2 best seasons to be in Japan. On the subject of Japanese Hanami, I had posted a trip report on FT:

About China: I didn't start going to China until 2008. I was on a mission trip to serve in south west region of China. I am hooked ever since. Been back a lot except during the pandemic. The country is vast and diverse. Love the train system which makes traversing the country so easy (without the airport hassle). China has a lot of photo-ops in terms of landscape and city-scape. The food is amazing by region. Has the longest history that spans 6,000 years. Many sections of the Great Wall one can climb.

Egypt: I had tried a number of times to go to Egypt in vain. Reasons varied, personal safety being one. I came as close as having a RTW DONE4 booked ex-CAI. First flight would have been on QR. But QR canceled way before my trip began, for political reasons. Oh well. For history buff, Egypt is a must. I hope I�ll make it there one day soon.

I have heard that Japan is super safe. That is exciting to hear from another and Egypt for personal safety reason has caused a hesitation for me. I worry about my wives safety. I have heard Cairo is safe, with low crime from some research, but that women can be harassed quite often. So we just never have felt comfortable and the last time we consider it like 5 years ago I believe there was political unrest there, I can't remember. We haven't considered it for a while, covid made us realize if I was ever going to see it, we should not wait and start reconsidering it.

What type of China mission trip? I have a college friend who met his wife in China on a multiyear trip to China to spread the word of God. I hope to travel to China someday with him and his wife.

Very cool. We are considering mission work too. We need to find a church first.

With respect to children, what I meant was don�t give up travel just because you are going to have children, take them along!

Fiji - this place is very different from what most people have in their heads. It�s not a romantic South Pacific place. It�s quite dirty and not particularly nice. Forget beaches. Also Bora Bora, hmm, some ok hotels but there are nicer places in the Pacific.

Hi Dreamwalker, yes, at least for me your perspective does impact my recommendations. But just one thought----Florence is also a fashion city as it is home to at least 4 well known designers (Ferragamo, Gucci, Cavalli and Pucci). Also, it is my understanding that there are rather famous fashion outlets within a day's drive of the city. So, if your wife wants to do some shopping while in Italy this would be a possibility.

It sounds like Venice is not a must do for you. But iin terms of Milan, given my comments above,, I would say a stay in Florence would be a better bet than Milan. You say you are using points to fly to Italy. I assume you mean an award ticket. If so for a relatively nominal fee, you could change the entry point into Italy to Florence. Many major hub airports have service directly into Florence. Malpensa is a pain too as it so far outside the city. I have been to Italy at least 10 times now, and only use Malpensa as a gateway to Como (as it is only 60 miles away) and Liguria (where Cinque Terre is located). So, I still suggest ditching Milan. Of course this is only my perspective. In my opinion, Florence is much, much nicer. True you see the glamour side of Milan if you watch videos from fashion week. But most tourists will never see this side of Milan without some sore of access. For me, it is a big industrial city--sort of like the Frnakfurt of Italy. Also, I sense that Venice is not the top of your list. So with this, I suggest:

1. 4 nights Florence
2. 4 nights Rome
3. 4 nights Amalfi coast
4. one night at Rome airport in advance of flight exiting Italy

As to logistics, I suggest changing your ticket to fly into Florence directly. The airport is not far from the city and you can just grab a cab to your hotel. Not sure what alliance you are flying, but if Star Alliance, both Swiss and Lufthansa fly there. I would bet most other major carriers do as well (I did a quick check and it is possible from Zurich, Frankfurt, Munich, Paris and Amsterdam, to name a few).

Another poster suggested Ravello for the Amalfi coast. It is truly stunning. But what they failed to mention is that it is not the easiest locale to use as a base for visiting the entire Amalfi coast. So, I suggest Sorrento. If weather permits you could even take a short ferry ride to Capri, which without the tourists, it is a beautiful island. Also Sorrento is closest to Pompeii, which I understand is a must do,

Finally, spending a night at Rome airport may not sound particularly appealing. But if you keep your exit point from Italy to Rome, Sorrento is a distance away. Too far for catching a morning flight from Rome and, really even for afternoon travel if the trip is taking you home to the US. So, for practicality reasons I added the Rome airport night. But keep in mind, as with your outbound journey, you could change the return to leave from Naples. It is has service to a wide variety of international hubs which connect to many USA bound flights.

Originally we were flying business class from jfk to mxp for 50k points with virgin through delta. The return flight was 77500 returning to Minneapolis.

It's the best we could find so far. I started searching in Rome. We were planning to just do the south of Italy. I had a close friend recommend Sorrento too.

So sorry. This topic is technically OT. Further discussion could risk pushing this thread to OMNI. Hope you understand.
If you like, please msg me.

BTW, Amalfi Coast includes Sorrento.

OT = off topic?

Omni = Omni everything?

Not sure I do understand tbh. What rule did I exactly break??

We try to stay on topic in these threads. Off topic discussion can lead to a thread being closed or sent to OMNI, which is a general, wide-open forum with little to do with FT. It�s also not accessible to new members.

okay. sounds good.

Thanks.

Have a good one guys. I think I have a good idea of how to handle the trip. I appreciate all the opinions.

1. Lake Como doesn't close. You can just drive or walk up to it. However many of the hotels on Lake Como are only open during high season. IMO it requires more than a half day. It's nice to drive the whole way around the lake and stop in a couple small towns. It's also nice to get a view of the lake in different light.

2. Pompeii is near Naples (and the Amalfi Coast, and Capri/Ischia). It's far from everything else on your lists. In summer, the best way to see it is to go as early in the day as possible, before the sun becomes too hot.

3. Assuming that Italy will be less crowded than usual with tourists, cruise ships and their passengers, this might be a good time to see places that are normally extremely crowded or ruined by the presence of large cruise ships and their daytime hoards.

4. Rather than trying for a checklist of the top sights of Italy, focus on a region. For example, you could focus on Tuscany and go to Florence, Pisa, Lucca, Sienna, San G. or some of the smaller hill towns, etc. If you want to see Venice (tourist trap but I guess it's something that everyone should see once), also go to Bologna (beautiful old university town, now known as a foodie place) and Modena (food, including truffles!); Verona would be along the way if you combine this with Lake Como, and there's a pretty wine producing region east of Verona. If you go a bit south from Bologna, there's San Marino and the smaller Italian city known for the historic church with the inlaid floor (sorry, but the name escapes me at the moment).

5. Remember that Italy is strike prone. Expect travel to be disrupted in some way by a day of a general strike, train strike, public transit strike, strike by different categories of airline and airport workers, etc.

6. Do you plan to rent a car or use trains? Trains make sense between larger cities and for day trips to nearby smaller cities, but you almost need a car for Lake Como, wine villages and IMO the Amalfi Coast. If you're not accustomed to driving in Italy, IME the northeastern region is the easiest but of course you can't take a car into Venice.

No you did not break any rules. I was trying to avoid doing so!

Sometimes Moderators may move conversations that are Off Topic in reference to the particular thread, they may move it to OMNI forum. Log on to FT, and go over to OMNI and take a look!

BTW, since this thread is now Italy specific, maybe a slight change in the Title, and move it to Italy Forum where it is better served! Moderator?