Switzerland for 11 Days Itinerary. ZRH - GVA
Apr 21, 2018, 8:36 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: YYC
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Switzerland for 11 Days Itinerary. ZRH - GVA
I have just booked a trip for September, 2018 and would like to hop on booking hotels since it is high season.
I arrive on September 14 at 10AM to Zurich. I depart on September 25, 7:30 AM from Geneva, which gives me 11 days.
My thoughts are:
1 Night Zurich
3 Nights Lucerne area
2 nights Zermatt
4 nights Montreaux
1 night Geneva (since I have a 7:30AM flight).
Based on my research on this forum (thanks all!) it sounds like we should pick a home base, and do day trips. Therefore, I thought basing myself out of Lucerne, Zermatt, and Montreaux would work well.
I have 4 free nights at Fairmont Le Montreaux Palace, so that is a no brainier for me to explore the Lake Geneva area.
I do notice that Lucerne to Zermatt is quite the long train ride, but I really want to visit Zermatt.
Can anyone comment/critique my overall plan?
I arrive on September 14 at 10AM to Zurich. I depart on September 25, 7:30 AM from Geneva, which gives me 11 days.
My thoughts are:
1 Night Zurich
3 Nights Lucerne area
2 nights Zermatt
4 nights Montreaux
1 night Geneva (since I have a 7:30AM flight).
Based on my research on this forum (thanks all!) it sounds like we should pick a home base, and do day trips. Therefore, I thought basing myself out of Lucerne, Zermatt, and Montreaux would work well.
I have 4 free nights at Fairmont Le Montreaux Palace, so that is a no brainier for me to explore the Lake Geneva area.
I do notice that Lucerne to Zermatt is quite the long train ride, but I really want to visit Zermatt.
Can anyone comment/critique my overall plan?
Last edited by CanuckFlyHigh; Apr 21, 2018 at 8:44 pm
Apr 21, 2018, 9:53 pm
#2
Join Date: Jun 2015
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, Delta GM, Marriott Platinum Premier
Posts: 161
Sounds like fun! We were there for 7 days in Sept 2017! We did:
1 night Zurich (Park Hyatt)
3 nights Adelaide’s (SPG Cambrian)
2 nights Lucerne (Hotel Lucerne Autograph)
1 night Zurich (Park Hyatt)
If Iyou have UR points then I recommend the Park Hyatt, it is a great property that also has a steam room and sauna which was great after a long plane ride. Then make sure to check out the Old Town and the lake. We thought Zurich was nice, but not nearly as interesting for us tourists.
Lucerne was great and we wished we had stayed 1 extra night here. We enjoyed going up on my Gigi (I think that’s the name). Take the train up and the gondola on the way down. Make sure to pack a coat because it is brisk at the top. We also enjoyed checking out the towers along the old wall that was slightly north (but still walking distance from center) of the city. There also are 2 neat fortresses in the mountains that you can tour. Make sure to get reservations if you are wanting to eat outside the hotel because we were turned down as walk-ins.
Consider purchasing the half-fare card to save on trains and busses. Let me know if you have other questions, we really enjoyed our time in Switzerland.
1 night Zurich (Park Hyatt)
3 nights Adelaide’s (SPG Cambrian)
2 nights Lucerne (Hotel Lucerne Autograph)
1 night Zurich (Park Hyatt)
If Iyou have UR points then I recommend the Park Hyatt, it is a great property that also has a steam room and sauna which was great after a long plane ride. Then make sure to check out the Old Town and the lake. We thought Zurich was nice, but not nearly as interesting for us tourists.
Lucerne was great and we wished we had stayed 1 extra night here. We enjoyed going up on my Gigi (I think that’s the name). Take the train up and the gondola on the way down. Make sure to pack a coat because it is brisk at the top. We also enjoyed checking out the towers along the old wall that was slightly north (but still walking distance from center) of the city. There also are 2 neat fortresses in the mountains that you can tour. Make sure to get reservations if you are wanting to eat outside the hotel because we were turned down as walk-ins.
Consider purchasing the half-fare card to save on trains and busses. Let me know if you have other questions, we really enjoyed our time in Switzerland.
Apr 21, 2018, 11:10 pm
#3
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Heraklion, Greece
Posts: 7,574
Go ahead! Some people will suggest to switch X with Y and Z with Y,to add a day here and to subtract a night there, but all in all this is an itinerary that will give you a rough idea about Switzerland while missing some places. But don't worry, you can go back again... 
Apr 22, 2018, 9:49 am
#4
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Thanks! I am a firm believer that if you try to see everything, you see nothing at all. Just wanted I wasn't missing any "musts"
Apr 22, 2018, 12:19 pm
#5
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Posts: 1,271
As a big Switzerland fan of many years standing, I look at your itinerary and shudder. No offense but that's my reaction. The two commonest mistakes travellers make are trying to cover too much in too little time and packing too much. I'm not even going to ask about your packing plans. 
Most people understandably start out by thinking, 'we want to see as much as possible'. The problem there though is that they think the word 'much' is synonymous with the word 'many'. The way to see as 'much' as possible is to spend your time IN places, not in BETWEEN places. Each time you move, you lose time making that move that could have been spent in a place seeing and doing things. So as in many things, in travel, less is more. The less you move the more you see and do.
You say you want to day trip from a base and are a firm believer that if you try to see everything, you see nothing at all. Yet from my perspective you are planning to try and see everything to a large degree. With only 10 full days really available to use, I would not personally plan to spend my time in more than 2 places.
Assuming you are departing from YYC on a direct flight to Zurich, you will be jet lagged on the 14th so I don't count that day as really useful. Rather than spending the day and night there, I would instead just train from Zurich to Lucerne (if that was my choice) on the 14th. You won't get much out of a half day in Zurich when jet-lagged, so why bother, you might as well get to a place you will be in better shape to enjoy on the 15th, rather than losing the 14th to jet lag and then half the 15th getting to Lucerne.
I like Lucerne and there is plenty to see and do nearby. A choice of where to stay however depends on your interests of which you have said nothing except 'missing any musts'. There are no musts of course other than those that are of interest to the individual. For example, my wife and I are avid hikers and our choices of where to stay are based on that interest. Being able to walk down the Bahnhofstrasse in Zurich for shopping is not on our radar at all but it might be top of the list for someone else. With our main interest being hiking, we are far more likely to stay in a small village as a base, with plenty of nearby hiking, rather than in a larger town/city. My point being, you need to say what your interests are before I would say to you that Lucerne is a good base or not. I lke Lucerne as I said, but we would never stay there. We would day trip to there for a day of strolling around and a nice lunch by the riverside or lake, from somewhere with better access to hiking for most of our days.
Also bear in mind again, that when you move you lose time. So when you write 2 nights in Zermatt, what you are really talking about is most of a day spent moving from Lucerne to Zermatt; one full day in Zermatt and then leaving the next morning for Montreux. One day in Zermatt, not two. As planned, what I see is 4 days on which you will move and so those are not full days you can spend in a place. Add to that your arrival day and departure day which are also travel days. and you actually end up with only 6 full days spent in places. That's hardly more than 50% of your total time. Going back to your stated belief that 'if you try to see everything, you see nothing', is one day in Zermatt really in line with that belief? Is it worth losing a day or more travelling to and from to spend that one day there?
As a general rule of thumb for planning, I suggest using the 'Rule of 3s' which in terms of travel says, never spend less than 3 full days/4 nights in a place unless it is just an overnight stop between A and B. Using that as a guide, you can see that the 3/4 allows for a travel day between places and will result in only 25% of your total time being lost to travel days. The ideal of course would be to go to one place and stay. No time lost to moving. But most people want a balance of quantity of places vs. time lost to travel and so you have to determine what is an acceptable percentage of travel days for you.
Zermatt itself, is like Niagara Falls to me (I'm guessing your an Ontario resident). It's a must for most people who visit that part of Canada but as I always ask people, how long can you just stand there and watch water fall off a rock? You go to Zermatt to see the Matterhorn (unless you are going to ski), much the same as Niagara. So again, to me, it is a place to day trip to rather than a place to stay for a longer period of time. We would never spend a week staying there even though there are some good hikes in the area, there are better places. We also like Montreux for a day trip but again would not stay there.
Having to get to Geneva for your 7.30 am return flight does mean you will need to stay there the night before. If you want to stay in a larger town, why not stay in Geneva instead of Montreux for multiple nights and simply day trip to Montreux if you want to visit Chateau Chillon etc.? That will eliminate a travel day. Even though it is a short trip from Montreux to Geneva, you still have to check-out of a hotel, go to the station, wait for your train, arrive and make your way to your new hotel in Geneva, check-in, unpack. You end up with half a day wasted. The same if you overnight in Zurich before going to Lucerne. It's a short move but it still cost you time making the move.
Without knowing what your interests are and so where might best suit you spending your time, I would take your existing itinerary and eliminate Zurich, Zermatt and Montreux as places to spend your nights. That would leave only Lucerne and Geneva to stay in. You can day trip to both Zermatt and Montreux from Geneva and back into Zurich for a day if you wish from Lucerne. Geneva to Zermatt would be the longest trip at 3.5 hours by train or under 3 hours by car. But if you really want to visit, an early start and late return makes it quite doable as a day trip. Lucerne to Zurich is only 45 minutes by train.
Most people understandably start out by thinking, 'we want to see as much as possible'. The problem there though is that they think the word 'much' is synonymous with the word 'many'. The way to see as 'much' as possible is to spend your time IN places, not in BETWEEN places. Each time you move, you lose time making that move that could have been spent in a place seeing and doing things. So as in many things, in travel, less is more. The less you move the more you see and do.
You say you want to day trip from a base and are a firm believer that if you try to see everything, you see nothing at all. Yet from my perspective you are planning to try and see everything to a large degree. With only 10 full days really available to use, I would not personally plan to spend my time in more than 2 places.
Assuming you are departing from YYC on a direct flight to Zurich, you will be jet lagged on the 14th so I don't count that day as really useful. Rather than spending the day and night there, I would instead just train from Zurich to Lucerne (if that was my choice) on the 14th. You won't get much out of a half day in Zurich when jet-lagged, so why bother, you might as well get to a place you will be in better shape to enjoy on the 15th, rather than losing the 14th to jet lag and then half the 15th getting to Lucerne.
I like Lucerne and there is plenty to see and do nearby. A choice of where to stay however depends on your interests of which you have said nothing except 'missing any musts'. There are no musts of course other than those that are of interest to the individual. For example, my wife and I are avid hikers and our choices of where to stay are based on that interest. Being able to walk down the Bahnhofstrasse in Zurich for shopping is not on our radar at all but it might be top of the list for someone else. With our main interest being hiking, we are far more likely to stay in a small village as a base, with plenty of nearby hiking, rather than in a larger town/city. My point being, you need to say what your interests are before I would say to you that Lucerne is a good base or not. I lke Lucerne as I said, but we would never stay there. We would day trip to there for a day of strolling around and a nice lunch by the riverside or lake, from somewhere with better access to hiking for most of our days.
Also bear in mind again, that when you move you lose time. So when you write 2 nights in Zermatt, what you are really talking about is most of a day spent moving from Lucerne to Zermatt; one full day in Zermatt and then leaving the next morning for Montreux. One day in Zermatt, not two. As planned, what I see is 4 days on which you will move and so those are not full days you can spend in a place. Add to that your arrival day and departure day which are also travel days. and you actually end up with only 6 full days spent in places. That's hardly more than 50% of your total time. Going back to your stated belief that 'if you try to see everything, you see nothing', is one day in Zermatt really in line with that belief? Is it worth losing a day or more travelling to and from to spend that one day there?
As a general rule of thumb for planning, I suggest using the 'Rule of 3s' which in terms of travel says, never spend less than 3 full days/4 nights in a place unless it is just an overnight stop between A and B. Using that as a guide, you can see that the 3/4 allows for a travel day between places and will result in only 25% of your total time being lost to travel days. The ideal of course would be to go to one place and stay. No time lost to moving. But most people want a balance of quantity of places vs. time lost to travel and so you have to determine what is an acceptable percentage of travel days for you.
Zermatt itself, is like Niagara Falls to me (I'm guessing your an Ontario resident). It's a must for most people who visit that part of Canada but as I always ask people, how long can you just stand there and watch water fall off a rock? You go to Zermatt to see the Matterhorn (unless you are going to ski), much the same as Niagara. So again, to me, it is a place to day trip to rather than a place to stay for a longer period of time. We would never spend a week staying there even though there are some good hikes in the area, there are better places. We also like Montreux for a day trip but again would not stay there.
Having to get to Geneva for your 7.30 am return flight does mean you will need to stay there the night before. If you want to stay in a larger town, why not stay in Geneva instead of Montreux for multiple nights and simply day trip to Montreux if you want to visit Chateau Chillon etc.? That will eliminate a travel day. Even though it is a short trip from Montreux to Geneva, you still have to check-out of a hotel, go to the station, wait for your train, arrive and make your way to your new hotel in Geneva, check-in, unpack. You end up with half a day wasted. The same if you overnight in Zurich before going to Lucerne. It's a short move but it still cost you time making the move.
Without knowing what your interests are and so where might best suit you spending your time, I would take your existing itinerary and eliminate Zurich, Zermatt and Montreux as places to spend your nights. That would leave only Lucerne and Geneva to stay in. You can day trip to both Zermatt and Montreux from Geneva and back into Zurich for a day if you wish from Lucerne. Geneva to Zermatt would be the longest trip at 3.5 hours by train or under 3 hours by car. But if you really want to visit, an early start and late return makes it quite doable as a day trip. Lucerne to Zurich is only 45 minutes by train.
Apr 22, 2018, 7:46 pm
#6
Join Date: Mar 2015
Programs: HH Diamond, GHA Titanium
Posts: 1,961
Not sure if I should create a new thread of my own or hijack this one ... think I'll go with the latter. Have a similar upcoming trip, but in the reverse direction i.e. Geneva to Zurich, 9 days 9 nights.
* These are mandatory for various reasons but everything else can be changed / switched around.
** I'm trying to do 4nights Geneva and 4nights Interlaken to take advantage of Citi Prestige's 4th night free, but happy to break either city apart if it doesnt' make sense.
Day 0: Late night flight into Geneva (I'll have already had 5days in Europe so no jet lag).
Day 0-4 (4 nights): Geneva
- Day 1 Geneva sights
- Day 2 trip to Annecy*
- Day 3 trip to Chamonix/Auguille du Midi*
- Day 4 morning train to Zermatt (4hr)
Day 4-5 (1night): Zermatt
- Matterhorn, etc
- Day 5 evening train to Interlaken (2hr15min)
Day 5-9 (4nights): Interlaken
- Day 6 trip to Jungfraujoch
- Day 7 trip to Bern
- Day 8 ... ?!?
- Day 9 morning train to Lucerne (2hr), 1/2 day Lucerne then evening train to Zurich (1hr)
Day 9-10 (1night): Zurich
- Day 10 2/3 day Zurich then night flight back home.
Additional info:
- Trip will be in mid-August.
- Interests are primarily food and scenery, and maybe some light hiking (to get to scenery). Cities/architecture/sciencey stuff secondary. Art, history -- no interest at all.
- Trip budget: low-medium I guess, looking at chf110/night for accommodation, chf180/day for food & attractions for 2 pax.
* These are mandatory for various reasons but everything else can be changed / switched around.
** I'm trying to do 4nights Geneva and 4nights Interlaken to take advantage of Citi Prestige's 4th night free, but happy to break either city apart if it doesnt' make sense.
Day 0: Late night flight into Geneva (I'll have already had 5days in Europe so no jet lag).
Day 0-4 (4 nights): Geneva
- Day 1 Geneva sights
- Day 2 trip to Annecy*
- Day 3 trip to Chamonix/Auguille du Midi*
- Day 4 morning train to Zermatt (4hr)
Day 4-5 (1night): Zermatt
- Matterhorn, etc
- Day 5 evening train to Interlaken (2hr15min)
Day 5-9 (4nights): Interlaken
- Day 6 trip to Jungfraujoch
- Day 7 trip to Bern
- Day 8 ... ?!?
- Day 9 morning train to Lucerne (2hr), 1/2 day Lucerne then evening train to Zurich (1hr)
Day 9-10 (1night): Zurich
- Day 10 2/3 day Zurich then night flight back home.
Additional info:
- Trip will be in mid-August.
- Interests are primarily food and scenery, and maybe some light hiking (to get to scenery). Cities/architecture/sciencey stuff secondary. Art, history -- no interest at all.
- Trip budget: low-medium I guess, looking at chf110/night for accommodation, chf180/day for food & attractions for 2 pax.
Last edited by shuigao; Apr 22, 2018 at 7:54 pm
Apr 23, 2018, 2:58 am
#7
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 167
Geneva is my city and I love it, but it's not an easy girl. You're on a budget, and the surroundings are worth it.
Think of buying the "Carte Journalière" transportation pass for your trips.
Walk or take the Mouette boat (two francs) to la Perle du Lac and have your breakfast / picnic
Then take the train or the CGN to Nyon and drink your beer at the castle.
Then take the CGN boat (cgn.ch) from Nyon to Yvoire. Beware to choose a boat that's part of the "Flotte de Prestige" and not the normal one (same price / included in the carte journalière)
Then take the CGN to Cully and have a stunning walk in the Lavaux vineyards. Enjoy some wine and probably a sunburn.
Have dinner in Lausanne (at vibrant Flon?)
Visiting France will require a bit of planning because of the less reliable transportation system. Think of renting a car. Annecy is lovely.
Don't underestimate the altitude-related issues. Have some rest after the Jungfraujoch and drink plenty of water before and after.
It's a shame to pass through the Lac des 4 Cantons so quickly. Once in Lucerne, take the boat (included) to Vitznau and take the old cogwheel train to Rigi Kaltbad (or the cable car from Weggis) and spend the night at the hotel. Enjoy a morning spa with stunning views.
Think of buying the "Carte Journalière" transportation pass for your trips.
Walk or take the Mouette boat (two francs) to la Perle du Lac and have your breakfast / picnic
Then take the train or the CGN to Nyon and drink your beer at the castle.
Then take the CGN boat (cgn.ch) from Nyon to Yvoire. Beware to choose a boat that's part of the "Flotte de Prestige" and not the normal one (same price / included in the carte journalière)
Then take the CGN to Cully and have a stunning walk in the Lavaux vineyards. Enjoy some wine and probably a sunburn.
Have dinner in Lausanne (at vibrant Flon?)
Visiting France will require a bit of planning because of the less reliable transportation system. Think of renting a car. Annecy is lovely.
Don't underestimate the altitude-related issues. Have some rest after the Jungfraujoch and drink plenty of water before and after.
It's a shame to pass through the Lac des 4 Cantons so quickly. Once in Lucerne, take the boat (included) to Vitznau and take the old cogwheel train to Rigi Kaltbad (or the cable car from Weggis) and spend the night at the hotel. Enjoy a morning spa with stunning views.
Apr 23, 2018, 3:06 am
#8
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Posts: 31,452
Apr 23, 2018, 11:18 am
#9
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,271
LondonElite, I agree riding a train in Switzerland 'to get there', can be part of the fun certainly in terms of the scenery along the way. But at the same time, it is lost time in terms of everything else. You can't be sitting in a small town square eating a Movenpick ice cream cone and listening to the church bells chime the hour while watching the people going about their day. The question then would have to be which would you rather do? That of course depends on the individual's interest. I can fully understand a 'train buff' wanting to spend all day, every day riding trains and considering none of it 'wasted time'.
The OP has not indicated any interests though other than using the word 'musts' which says nothing.
Shuigao, why day 3 to Chamonix? I like Chamonix but can't really see any reason to cross into France just to see it. Chamonix is either to ski or to start the Mont Blanc circuit hike. If you want a day trip to a well known ski area etc. why not take the Golden Pass train to Gsstad and back from Geneva.
Interlaken is about as tourist kitsch as it gets in Switzerland. It is where all the tour bus groups stay and it is not a place that I would do anything in other than change trains. I think most Switzerland fans with much experience would tell you the same. There are far better places to stay in the nearby villages like Wengen, Grindelwald, Murren, Lauterbrunnen, etc. Letting a 4th night free hotel deal decide where you will stay in an area is not what I would call a wise idea. Let your interests decide where you will stay. I never understand why people will spend X thousands to visit a place and then make a decision based on a couple of hundred when they get there.
You cannot plan when you will visit Jungfraujoch. There is no point in going up if the top is in clouds, you will see nothing. What you have to do is check the weather each day you are staying nearby and pick your day when it will be clear. So be prepared to shuffle your days in the area to suit that. The same is true of seeing the Matterhorn when in Zermatt. I recall once staying in Tasch, just down the valley from Zermatt and the top of the Matterhorn was in cloud for 4 days in a row. All the 'one dayers' obviously didn't get to see the peak. I recall a first stay in a hotel near Interlaken (in Hasliberg) which was called the Hotel Gletscherblick. That means 'glacier view'. Our room had a huge window and the view was across the valley which was filled with low cloud. It was not until our third day staying there that we saw the view of the glacier across the valley and realized why the room had such a huge window and the hotel had the name it had. In Switzerland, the weather and the clouds can vary a great deal from valley to valley between the mountains, you have to consider that.
The OP has not indicated any interests though other than using the word 'musts' which says nothing.
Shuigao, why day 3 to Chamonix? I like Chamonix but can't really see any reason to cross into France just to see it. Chamonix is either to ski or to start the Mont Blanc circuit hike. If you want a day trip to a well known ski area etc. why not take the Golden Pass train to Gsstad and back from Geneva.
Interlaken is about as tourist kitsch as it gets in Switzerland. It is where all the tour bus groups stay and it is not a place that I would do anything in other than change trains. I think most Switzerland fans with much experience would tell you the same. There are far better places to stay in the nearby villages like Wengen, Grindelwald, Murren, Lauterbrunnen, etc. Letting a 4th night free hotel deal decide where you will stay in an area is not what I would call a wise idea. Let your interests decide where you will stay. I never understand why people will spend X thousands to visit a place and then make a decision based on a couple of hundred when they get there.
You cannot plan when you will visit Jungfraujoch. There is no point in going up if the top is in clouds, you will see nothing. What you have to do is check the weather each day you are staying nearby and pick your day when it will be clear. So be prepared to shuffle your days in the area to suit that. The same is true of seeing the Matterhorn when in Zermatt. I recall once staying in Tasch, just down the valley from Zermatt and the top of the Matterhorn was in cloud for 4 days in a row. All the 'one dayers' obviously didn't get to see the peak. I recall a first stay in a hotel near Interlaken (in Hasliberg) which was called the Hotel Gletscherblick. That means 'glacier view'. Our room had a huge window and the view was across the valley which was filled with low cloud. It was not until our third day staying there that we saw the view of the glacier across the valley and realized why the room had such a huge window and the hotel had the name it had. In Switzerland, the weather and the clouds can vary a great deal from valley to valley between the mountains, you have to consider that.
Apr 23, 2018, 11:42 am
#10
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 167
My advice is to pack lightly (ideally backpack) and to avoid staying more than 1 or 2 nights nights at the same place.
Apr 23, 2018, 3:00 pm
#11
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: YYC
Programs: Hilton Diamond, Fairmont Plat, IHG Spire, SPG Gold, WS Gold, Hertz PC, National E Elite,
Posts: 2,771
The beauty of forums is that everyone is entitled to an opinion, even though everyone doesn't have to agree. I greatly appreciate the time you took to respond to my itinerary request, but based on our travel styles, I must respectfully disagree. We are millennials, and just finished a 40 day honeymoon, flying over 28,000 miles, with only a carry-on.
To suggest we would lose 50% of our time travelling is simply not true. Switzerland is tiny, and the distance between locations is only a few hours at the most. We are only spending our time in three places. If it took my wife more than 15 minutes to "pack and unpack" she wouldn't be my wife. That being said,we don't need to debate travel style, as everyone is different, but to reiterate.
I land in the morning of the 14th, and will spend the day in Zurich and sleep there. (Park Hyatt)
Morning of 15th, I will have a nice leisurely breakfast, and hop on the train to Lucerne. As you state above, it is only 45 minutes. That is most people's daily commute.
I will then have the 15th, 16th, and 17th all settled in a hotel in Lucerne. (hopefully Park Hotel Vitzneau)
On the 18th, I will head to Zermatt, and be there for a late lunch. This will be my longest travel day at 4 hours.
I will have all of the 18th, 19th, and 20th in Zermatt. (Mont Cervin)
On the 20th, I head to Montreaux, which is only 2 hours, and will spend the next 4 days there, in a 1000 CHF per night suite, for free. (Fairmont Montreaux Palace)
Therefore, I have 1 day in Zurich to get settled, 3 days in Lucerne, 3 days in Zermatt, and 4 days in Montreaux. I find this quite leisurely, and the trips between towns are very short, in fact, under 2 hours for all but one.
To suggest we would lose 50% of our time travelling is simply not true. Switzerland is tiny, and the distance between locations is only a few hours at the most. We are only spending our time in three places. If it took my wife more than 15 minutes to "pack and unpack" she wouldn't be my wife. That being said,we don't need to debate travel style, as everyone is different, but to reiterate.
I land in the morning of the 14th, and will spend the day in Zurich and sleep there. (Park Hyatt)
Morning of 15th, I will have a nice leisurely breakfast, and hop on the train to Lucerne. As you state above, it is only 45 minutes. That is most people's daily commute.
I will then have the 15th, 16th, and 17th all settled in a hotel in Lucerne. (hopefully Park Hotel Vitzneau)
On the 18th, I will head to Zermatt, and be there for a late lunch. This will be my longest travel day at 4 hours.
I will have all of the 18th, 19th, and 20th in Zermatt. (Mont Cervin)
On the 20th, I head to Montreaux, which is only 2 hours, and will spend the next 4 days there, in a 1000 CHF per night suite, for free. (Fairmont Montreaux Palace)
Therefore, I have 1 day in Zurich to get settled, 3 days in Lucerne, 3 days in Zermatt, and 4 days in Montreaux. I find this quite leisurely, and the trips between towns are very short, in fact, under 2 hours for all but one.
Apr 23, 2018, 5:14 pm
#12
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SYD, Australia
Programs: VA Silver, QF FF, Priority Club
Posts: 923
As a big Switzerland fan of many years standing, I look at your itinerary and shudder. No offense but that's my reaction. The two commonest mistakes travellers make are trying to cover too much in too little time and packing too much. I'm not even going to ask about your packing plans.
Most people understandably start out by thinking, 'we want to see as much as possible'. The problem there though is that they think the word 'much' is synonymous with the word 'many'. The way to see as 'much' as possible is to spend your time IN places, not in BETWEEN places. Each time you move, you lose time making that move that could have been spent in a place seeing and doing things. So as in many things, in travel, less is more. The less you move the more you see and do.
You say you want to day trip from a base and are a firm believer that if you try to see everything, you see nothing at all. Yet from my perspective you are planning to try and see everything to a large degree. With only 10 full days really available to use, I would not personally plan to spend my time in more than 2 places.
Assuming you are departing from YYC on a direct flight to Zurich, you will be jet lagged on the 14th so I don't count that day as really useful. Rather than spending the day and night there, I would instead just train from Zurich to Lucerne (if that was my choice) on the 14th. You won't get much out of a half day in Zurich when jet-lagged, so why bother, you might as well get to a place you will be in better shape to enjoy on the 15th, rather than losing the 14th to jet lag and then half the 15th getting to Lucerne.
I like Lucerne and there is plenty to see and do nearby. A choice of where to stay however depends on your interests of which you have said nothing except 'missing any musts'. There are no musts of course other than those that are of interest to the individual. For example, my wife and I are avid hikers and our choices of where to stay are based on that interest. Being able to walk down the Bahnhofstrasse in Zurich for shopping is not on our radar at all but it might be top of the list for someone else. With our main interest being hiking, we are far more likely to stay in a small village as a base, with plenty of nearby hiking, rather than in a larger town/city. My point being, you need to say what your interests are before I would say to you that Lucerne is a good base or not. I lke Lucerne as I said, but we would never stay there. We would day trip to there for a day of strolling around and a nice lunch by the riverside or lake, from somewhere with better access to hiking for most of our days.
Also bear in mind again, that when you move you lose time. So when you write 2 nights in Zermatt, what you are really talking about is most of a day spent moving from Lucerne to Zermatt; one full day in Zermatt and then leaving the next morning for Montreux. One day in Zermatt, not two. As planned, what I see is 4 days on which you will move and so those are not full days you can spend in a place. Add to that your arrival day and departure day which are also travel days. and you actually end up with only 6 full days spent in places. That's hardly more than 50% of your total time. Going back to your stated belief that 'if you try to see everything, you see nothing', is one day in Zermatt really in line with that belief? Is it worth losing a day or more travelling to and from to spend that one day there?
As a general rule of thumb for planning, I suggest using the 'Rule of 3s' which in terms of travel says, never spend less than 3 full days/4 nights in a place unless it is just an overnight stop between A and B. Using that as a guide, you can see that the 3/4 allows for a travel day between places and will result in only 25% of your total time being lost to travel days. The ideal of course would be to go to one place and stay. No time lost to moving. But most people want a balance of quantity of places vs. time lost to travel and so you have to determine what is an acceptable percentage of travel days for you.
Zermatt itself, is like Niagara Falls to me (I'm guessing your an Ontario resident). It's a must for most people who visit that part of Canada but as I always ask people, how long can you just stand there and watch water fall off a rock? You go to Zermatt to see the Matterhorn (unless you are going to ski), much the same as Niagara. So again, to me, it is a place to day trip to rather than a place to stay for a longer period of time. We would never spend a week staying there even though there are some good hikes in the area, there are better places. We also like Montreux for a day trip but again would not stay there.
Having to get to Geneva for your 7.30 am return flight does mean you will need to stay there the night before. If you want to stay in a larger town, why not stay in Geneva instead of Montreux for multiple nights and simply day trip to Montreux if you want to visit Chateau Chillon etc.? That will eliminate a travel day. Even though it is a short trip from Montreux to Geneva, you still have to check-out of a hotel, go to the station, wait for your train, arrive and make your way to your new hotel in Geneva, check-in, unpack. You end up with half a day wasted. The same if you overnight in Zurich before going to Lucerne. It's a short move but it still cost you time making the move.
Without knowing what your interests are and so where might best suit you spending your time, I would take your existing itinerary and eliminate Zurich, Zermatt and Montreux as places to spend your nights. That would leave only Lucerne and Geneva to stay in. You can day trip to both Zermatt and Montreux from Geneva and back into Zurich for a day if you wish from Lucerne. Geneva to Zermatt would be the longest trip at 3.5 hours by train or under 3 hours by car. But if you really want to visit, an early start and late return makes it quite doable as a day trip. Lucerne to Zurich is only 45 minutes by train.
Most people understandably start out by thinking, 'we want to see as much as possible'. The problem there though is that they think the word 'much' is synonymous with the word 'many'. The way to see as 'much' as possible is to spend your time IN places, not in BETWEEN places. Each time you move, you lose time making that move that could have been spent in a place seeing and doing things. So as in many things, in travel, less is more. The less you move the more you see and do.
You say you want to day trip from a base and are a firm believer that if you try to see everything, you see nothing at all. Yet from my perspective you are planning to try and see everything to a large degree. With only 10 full days really available to use, I would not personally plan to spend my time in more than 2 places.
Assuming you are departing from YYC on a direct flight to Zurich, you will be jet lagged on the 14th so I don't count that day as really useful. Rather than spending the day and night there, I would instead just train from Zurich to Lucerne (if that was my choice) on the 14th. You won't get much out of a half day in Zurich when jet-lagged, so why bother, you might as well get to a place you will be in better shape to enjoy on the 15th, rather than losing the 14th to jet lag and then half the 15th getting to Lucerne.
I like Lucerne and there is plenty to see and do nearby. A choice of where to stay however depends on your interests of which you have said nothing except 'missing any musts'. There are no musts of course other than those that are of interest to the individual. For example, my wife and I are avid hikers and our choices of where to stay are based on that interest. Being able to walk down the Bahnhofstrasse in Zurich for shopping is not on our radar at all but it might be top of the list for someone else. With our main interest being hiking, we are far more likely to stay in a small village as a base, with plenty of nearby hiking, rather than in a larger town/city. My point being, you need to say what your interests are before I would say to you that Lucerne is a good base or not. I lke Lucerne as I said, but we would never stay there. We would day trip to there for a day of strolling around and a nice lunch by the riverside or lake, from somewhere with better access to hiking for most of our days.
Also bear in mind again, that when you move you lose time. So when you write 2 nights in Zermatt, what you are really talking about is most of a day spent moving from Lucerne to Zermatt; one full day in Zermatt and then leaving the next morning for Montreux. One day in Zermatt, not two. As planned, what I see is 4 days on which you will move and so those are not full days you can spend in a place. Add to that your arrival day and departure day which are also travel days. and you actually end up with only 6 full days spent in places. That's hardly more than 50% of your total time. Going back to your stated belief that 'if you try to see everything, you see nothing', is one day in Zermatt really in line with that belief? Is it worth losing a day or more travelling to and from to spend that one day there?
As a general rule of thumb for planning, I suggest using the 'Rule of 3s' which in terms of travel says, never spend less than 3 full days/4 nights in a place unless it is just an overnight stop between A and B. Using that as a guide, you can see that the 3/4 allows for a travel day between places and will result in only 25% of your total time being lost to travel days. The ideal of course would be to go to one place and stay. No time lost to moving. But most people want a balance of quantity of places vs. time lost to travel and so you have to determine what is an acceptable percentage of travel days for you.
Zermatt itself, is like Niagara Falls to me (I'm guessing your an Ontario resident). It's a must for most people who visit that part of Canada but as I always ask people, how long can you just stand there and watch water fall off a rock? You go to Zermatt to see the Matterhorn (unless you are going to ski), much the same as Niagara. So again, to me, it is a place to day trip to rather than a place to stay for a longer period of time. We would never spend a week staying there even though there are some good hikes in the area, there are better places. We also like Montreux for a day trip but again would not stay there.
Having to get to Geneva for your 7.30 am return flight does mean you will need to stay there the night before. If you want to stay in a larger town, why not stay in Geneva instead of Montreux for multiple nights and simply day trip to Montreux if you want to visit Chateau Chillon etc.? That will eliminate a travel day. Even though it is a short trip from Montreux to Geneva, you still have to check-out of a hotel, go to the station, wait for your train, arrive and make your way to your new hotel in Geneva, check-in, unpack. You end up with half a day wasted. The same if you overnight in Zurich before going to Lucerne. It's a short move but it still cost you time making the move.
Without knowing what your interests are and so where might best suit you spending your time, I would take your existing itinerary and eliminate Zurich, Zermatt and Montreux as places to spend your nights. That would leave only Lucerne and Geneva to stay in. You can day trip to both Zermatt and Montreux from Geneva and back into Zurich for a day if you wish from Lucerne. Geneva to Zermatt would be the longest trip at 3.5 hours by train or under 3 hours by car. But if you really want to visit, an early start and late return makes it quite doable as a day trip. Lucerne to Zurich is only 45 minutes by train.
OP, Switzerland while small takes time to get around as the rail lines meander through valleys, up and down mountains and almost never direct. It will depend on what you want to see and how disappointed you will feel if weather precludes Jungfrau and Zermatt.
I got very lucky with Zermatt as I was there 1 night to get the Glacier Express. Sunrise shining off Matterhorn is special.
Apr 24, 2018, 2:59 am
#13
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: London
Posts: 517
The beauty of forums is that everyone is entitled to an opinion, even though everyone doesn't have to agree. I greatly appreciate the time you took to respond to my itinerary request, but based on our travel styles, I must respectfully disagree. We are millennials, and just finished a 40 day honeymoon, flying over 28,000 miles, with only a carry-on.
To suggest we would lose 50% of our time travelling is simply not true. Switzerland is tiny, and the distance between locations is only a few hours at the most. We are only spending our time in three places. If it took my wife more than 15 minutes to "pack and unpack" she wouldn't be my wife. That being said,we don't need to debate travel style, as everyone is different, but to reiterate.
I land in the morning of the 14th, and will spend the day in Zurich and sleep there. (Park Hyatt)
Morning of 15th, I will have a nice leisurely breakfast, and hop on the train to Lucerne. As you state above, it is only 45 minutes. That is most people's daily commute.
I will then have the 15th, 16th, and 17th all settled in a hotel in Lucerne. (hopefully Park Hotel Vitzneau)
On the 18th, I will head to Zermatt, and be there for a late lunch. This will be my longest travel day at 4 hours.
I will have all of the 18th, 19th, and 20th in Zermatt. (Mont Cervin)
On the 20th, I head to Montreaux, which is only 2 hours, and will spend the next 4 days there, in a 1000 CHF per night suite, for free. (Fairmont Montreaux Palace)
Therefore, I have 1 day in Zurich to get settled, 3 days in Lucerne, 3 days in Zermatt, and 4 days in Montreaux. I find this quite leisurely, and the trips between towns are very short, in fact, under 2 hours for all but one.
To suggest we would lose 50% of our time travelling is simply not true. Switzerland is tiny, and the distance between locations is only a few hours at the most. We are only spending our time in three places. If it took my wife more than 15 minutes to "pack and unpack" she wouldn't be my wife. That being said,we don't need to debate travel style, as everyone is different, but to reiterate.
I land in the morning of the 14th, and will spend the day in Zurich and sleep there. (Park Hyatt)
Morning of 15th, I will have a nice leisurely breakfast, and hop on the train to Lucerne. As you state above, it is only 45 minutes. That is most people's daily commute.
I will then have the 15th, 16th, and 17th all settled in a hotel in Lucerne. (hopefully Park Hotel Vitzneau)
On the 18th, I will head to Zermatt, and be there for a late lunch. This will be my longest travel day at 4 hours.
I will have all of the 18th, 19th, and 20th in Zermatt. (Mont Cervin)
On the 20th, I head to Montreaux, which is only 2 hours, and will spend the next 4 days there, in a 1000 CHF per night suite, for free. (Fairmont Montreaux Palace)
Therefore, I have 1 day in Zurich to get settled, 3 days in Lucerne, 3 days in Zermatt, and 4 days in Montreaux. I find this quite leisurely, and the trips between towns are very short, in fact, under 2 hours for all but one.
Do consider that Luzern to Vitznau are over an hour away from each other. If you're planning day trips, staying there will add significant time.
Not sure what day trips you are planning, so you'll need to do the maths to determine whether a tourist Halbtax (half price card) makes sense for you. However, note that the Saver day pass offers unlimited travel across the Swiss network for CHF52 per day if you book in advance - without the Halbtax - so can be a better alternative: https://www.sbb.ch/en/travelcards-an...-day-pass.html
Mountain railways are NOT covered by the day pass, but you do get 50% off. It therefore makes a lot of financial sense to try and head up in Zermatt on either the day you arrive or the day you leave - weather permitting. I'm not a fan of Gornergrat - too crowded - much prefer the Glacier Paradise, which for 50Fr (with either the Halbtax or the day pass) gives you great views across the Alps at the very top, and allows you to break the journey to enjoy the beautiful view of the Matterhorn reflected in lake Schwarzsee on the way down.
Finally, September is not really peak season in Switzerland and if you are OK with rustic family-run places, accommodation even in Zermatt can be had for as little as 100Fr per day between two of you. You could very easily leave booking the middle portion of your trip on short notice in response to the weather (that is what we all do for weekends
)
Apr 24, 2018, 8:40 am
#14
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: YYC
Programs: Hilton Diamond, Fairmont Plat, IHG Spire, SPG Gold, WS Gold, Hertz PC, National E Elite,
Posts: 2,771
Thank you so much for the detailed response! I will look into the switch of Zermatt and Lucerne.
It sounds like I need to figure out what we want to do on day trips to help us make a decision on rail passes.
It sounds like I need to figure out what we want to do on day trips to help us make a decision on rail passes.
Apr 24, 2018, 10:00 am
#15
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: London
Posts: 517
I'd also suggest that you plan more day trips than days you have to account for the weather. An hour from Luzern, Bern is beautiful (the "world's most instagrammed winter city"), Lungernsee in sun is the most gorgeous turquoise. As back up, Luzern to Lugano is only 2 hours with one change - Ticino, the Italian region, is often sunny when the rest of Switzerland is grey...