Query about being refused to fly
Jun 30, 2016, 3:21 pm
#31
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The OP asked if booking through a travel agent would have prevented the difficulty. Maybe - if the agent was a certified specialist in travel to Europe and who was conversant with Schengen rules.
The other mystery is why single entry was chosen - to save money? Poor choice if true.
The other mystery is why single entry was chosen - to save money? Poor choice if true.
Jun 30, 2016, 4:41 pm
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The OP asked if booking through a travel agent would have prevented the difficulty. Maybe - if the agent was a certified specialist in travel to Europe and who was conversant with Schengen rules.
The other mystery is why single entry was chosen - to save money? Poor choice if true.
The other mystery is why single entry was chosen - to save money? Poor choice if true.
Jun 30, 2016, 5:15 pm
#33
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Jun 30, 2016, 6:45 pm
#34
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Well, yes, but there's also a checkbox section on the application form: Single Entry, Two Entries, or Multiple Entries. I doubt that the OP checked Two or Multiple and that the embassy instead issued a Single, especially based on the submitted itinerary. I suppose it's possible, but I doubt it. Also, there is no option for "I dunno - you decide." Thus, I think it very likely that the OP, and not the embassy, chose the Single Entry option.
Last edited by Steve M; Jun 30, 2016 at 9:36 pm
Jun 30, 2016, 10:35 pm
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Jun 30, 2016, 10:54 pm
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Yet, Schengen visa is time restricted,meaning, if you enter on 1st (of the month) and get out 5th, re-enter on 8th and leave on 10th your visa would valid for 8 days between 1st and 10th. (This was the case three times I applied for schengen)
Yes. That is correct. You cant seem to get multiple entry when your itinerary has one planned entry.I wonder how it works for business travelers.
OT, but, my only problem with schengen visa is that they dont issue multiple entry, multiple year visa. That'd make my life so easy
Last edited by daKav; Jun 30, 2016 at 11:07 pm
Jul 1, 2016, 4:17 am
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Some get multiple entry Schengen visas even when the booked itinerary involves just one Schengen entry.
Not necessarily.
When it comes to that which I indicated as a possibility above, it (i.e., ending up with a more restricted visa than applicant indicated as desirable) happens a lot daily. 
And it's also not to be doubted that people applying for one kind of Schengen visa sometimes end up with another kind of Schengen visa than what they expected to get based on the submitted application.
Not necessarily.
Well, yes, but there's also a checkbox section on the application form: Single Entry, Two Entries, or Multiple Entries. I doubt that the OP checked Two or Multiple and that the embassy instead issued a Single, especially based on the submitted itinerary. I suppose it's possible, but I doubt it. Also, there is no option for "I dunno - you decide." Thus, I think it very likely that the OP, and not the embassy, chose the Single Entry option.
And it's also not to be doubted that people applying for one kind of Schengen visa sometimes end up with another kind of Schengen visa than what they expected to get based on the submitted application.
Last edited by GUWonder; Jul 1, 2016 at 4:25 am
Jul 3, 2016, 4:42 am
#40
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Hi All, OP here
I am sorry I didn't reply sooner. I understand a lot of you took time out to reply to me and I apologise for not responding sooner, I had some other things to deal with. Here's some more information although quite generally I get the feedback and I understand that what happened is what most of you here expect, and hey that is why I ask, you're the experts. I did expect some of the tough love messages, I suppose this is the sort of knowledge which makes one a more expert traveller over time.
The reason for the post was that this is exactly what didn't happen. In fact the airline reps walked away and I could not engage anyone (phone, desk, anyone airside) to either help us or to retrieve our luggage. We got out with the help of an airport representative to whom I am very grateful, absolutely.
Totally understood. I guess the gist of my question was, should that not have been true for the transit airport we were left at which was the same, no valid visa.
Yes, this as I came to understand later was my mistake.
I also found the Italian embassy (through VFS Global, their outsourced visa provider in Singapore) to be very vigilant with our application which was extremely lengthy, and I was a little surprised, but I am certainly not supposing this is their fault and more just trying to understand the situation better
By the way, an interesting aside. The visa application was very heavily scruitinised by VFS as I understand is their entire reason for being, and they actually pulled us up for not having a Turkish visa. I explained that we were only transiting and that a Turkish e-visa required a Schengen visa first. They acknowledged that they know this is true but that my wife would need to sign a waiver regardless that she did not submit a necessary document. This made me very nervous as we could have ended up being rejected - the form we signed said something along the lines of : I acknowledge that I have submitted this visa application without all required articles and I may be rejected and forfeit my visa fee on this basis. Below was listed "Turkish Transit Visa" (which does not actually exist) and they advised me not to worry about applying for it. This was why I was surprised that we ended up with any issue, the process was very rigorous.
That's true. I checked the application form we filled in which I scanned prior to submission and was surprised to see I'd checked multiple entry visa, but I am not sure what bearing that had on the overall assessment of our application.
Fair enough, that's a pretty clear demarcation. As others have said it's a shame they didn't pick it up in VCE. I guess all I could say is it does seem that there's a bit of a hole in this system that you could be stuck in a country for the purpose of not being stuck in another country. It did seem a bit arbitrary to me, not that carrying us forward would have been of any more use.
I understand, we did select this, in fact in being given the options I did not select it for the purpose of the transit (as I had not understood the transit requirement fully at the time) but because it seemed logical to me to be as permissive as possible incase we had to change the itinerary.
I know a lot of people have asked the hub and carrier. I was reluctant to post these at first as it might seem unfair to the carrier but given that it appears to be a key factor, this was TK at IST.
Yes, we were given boarding passes from VCE to IST and IST to ATH at the VCE check-in. It was a short (1 hour) stopover and our bags were originally checked through but offloaded when we were.
This might be the case, I asked about visa on arrival and they told us my wife was ineligible. I wasn't, but I was aware at the time that there was no way I could have checked in for the other carrier's flight on her behalf, and me leaving her alone there would not have made matters better. Nobody we spoke to at the Airport suggested this was a way we could have resolved the issue, otherwise I'd have found a way. One of my regrets was that I didn't spend more time getting information but anyone who has been to Ataturk might understand the challenges we faced. Even where there is public wifi, at the time (in the evening) the airport was so busy I couldn't get a seat anywhere. It really was a challenge even to make a call to Ankara to the TK HQ, which I eventually gave up on as the line which was about $5 per minute kept dropping out.
This is exactly true, we hold different citizenships.
This is excellent advice, thank you. To be quite honest, my wife and I have flown around Asia enough times and our passports do not give us any trouble in this region whatsoever. As many have mentioned in this thread this is new to me and is quite a significant amount of additional planning that I am not used to. Since we would like to travel in Europe again in the future I appreciate your advice and will keep note of it and other tips given in this thread to avoid this in the future.
My apologies, I have had an extremely busy few weeks but you are right, it's not fair to ask for advice and not participate in the discussion. Sorry
Haha. We have made a pact that we're not going outside of Asia for a while, got our tail between our legs over this one. If it were just an inconsequential thing then it wouldn't have really bothered us, but you know - when you fly from Asia to Europe and it's your honeymoon, and when you have as little opportunity to get 2 weeks off together as we do it makes you feel pretty bad.
Thank you for that, honestly you made me feel a bit better. This is exactly the situation I was in, but still, mea culpa. I've never had anything near this happen to me before (being denied entry to a country) so it was a bit of a confusing situation. I get how international relations are complex and all of that but it really is more rigid and unforgiving than I expected.
Thanks! More than anything I'd just like to think that other people won't get caught out the way we did. A lot of people know what they're doing but for us very infrequent Europe travellers, this wasn't obvious to me until we were being stopped from boarding, at which point I felt like a fool.
I have to stress it was not easy to get through that gate. It did occur to me that not that many people had been in this predicament before as almost nobody at the airport knew what to do with us. The poor airport employee ran liason between us and the passport control manager who was clearly unimpressed (although I don't blame him) and it seemed to me a mix between them struggling to believe our story and, from what I could make out as I don't speak Turkish, it seemed that the airport employee was bearing the pressure of making a personal commitment on our behalf, he looked very uncomfortable as he used his airport pass to let us through a side door to the land side.
Full credit to him, he really helped us out, and also to the carrier baggage handler office who while they were not happy to deal with us, did manage to find our bags.
Also thank you for the rest of your post as this is really the basis of my question - did the airline do the right thing to leave us there or should they have moved us somewhere else. I do feel given we had booked the entire itinerary of 6 legs with the Airline that they might have spent a bit more time giving us advice but perhaps that just isn't their responsibility. I do feel other carriers would have at least checked our booking and given us advice on what to do next. Perhaps I'm just nieve in that way.
It wasn't a choice we made, unfortunately. I'd post the application form if it weren't covered with personal details. That said perhaps we were never eligible for a multiple-entry visa. My wife's passport like many in this region is often subject to many restrictions globally.
This was my experience yes.
Sadly I put an unreasonable expectation behind this point - lesson learned!
Afraid not, let me see if I can copy just the part of the application form around this.
Thank you all so much for your replies. I feel a little guilty as I haven't been an active member of this community but I find the discussion and all of your insights really helpful and perhaps if I was I wouldn't run into this in the future so I'd like to stick around, thanks again for your help and feel free to ask me more! The only thing I'd like to avoid is giving out any personal info as my wife wouldn't be comfortable with it and I respect that, so I will avoid going into specifics about her nationality but suffice to say it is south-east asian and unfortunately not as permissive as a Singaporean passport.
I am sorry I didn't reply sooner. I understand a lot of you took time out to reply to me and I apologise for not responding sooner, I had some other things to deal with. Here's some more information although quite generally I get the feedback and I understand that what happened is what most of you here expect, and hey that is why I ask, you're the experts. I did expect some of the tough love messages, I suppose this is the sort of knowledge which makes one a more expert traveller over time.
You're lucky that the airline was able to get the immigration official to bend the rules. The airline could have just flown you back to your starting point and let you figure out what to do about your luggage. I'd thank the airline for doing what they could to help you.
IIRC if the airline had flown you to the final country they would have incurred a fine
but that would not have helped OP here. He obtained a single use Schengen visa and then attempted a second entry.
While I completely agree OP should have been more vigilant, I am surprised Italian consulate missed it too. In my experience, they were very vigilant about where I made the connection and if I got out of the airport (granted I was asking for multiple entry schengen to visit Croatia and some of my flights were through Russia )
By the way, an interesting aside. The visa application was very heavily scruitinised by VFS as I understand is their entire reason for being, and they actually pulled us up for not having a Turkish visa. I explained that we were only transiting and that a Turkish e-visa required a Schengen visa first. They acknowledged that they know this is true but that my wife would need to sign a waiver regardless that she did not submit a necessary document. This made me very nervous as we could have ended up being rejected - the form we signed said something along the lines of : I acknowledge that I have submitted this visa application without all required articles and I may be rejected and forfeit my visa fee on this basis. Below was listed "Turkish Transit Visa" (which does not actually exist) and they advised me not to worry about applying for it. This was why I was surprised that we ended up with any issue, the process was very rigorous.
Another aspect of the situation is that the visa form asks you to check a box for Single Entry, Two Entries, or Multiple Entries. I'm guessing that you checked Single Entry.
I don't see any wrongdoing by any airline here. Airlines check the flight you're checking in for, not your whole itinerary.
In retrospect, you should have applied for a multiple- (or double-) entry visa here, especially as the cost is the same.
There's one other thing that occurs to me: you said that the VCE-xxx-ATH segments were on the same carrier, whose hub is at xxx. Were both of those segments on the same ticket? Were you given boarding passes for both segments at VCE?
Yes, we were given boarding passes from VCE to IST and IST to ATH at the VCE check-in. It was a short (1 hour) stopover and our bags were originally checked through but offloaded when we were.
Could it have been IST/TK? In which case the OP could have got the visa online while airside
Nor Greece or Italy, so OP's wife must hold a different citizenship
OP: when I fly internationally, I check each country's official website for visa requirements. I also check my country's listing. I print it all out to remind me what is and is not needed. I double-check several weeks before starting the trip. So far, this strategy has not failed.
And check and double-check as the travel date approaches.
All speculation as OP has not bothered to return and provide two simple pieces of information: the name of the carrier and the transit station. If OP can't be bothered to provide that, not worth much to be helpful beyond the obvious which was that this was apparently easily avoided.
Maybe he's stuck at another airport and this time there's no hotel with WiFi.
To be fair to the OP, needing a multi-entry Schengen visa for flying between two Schengen countries but transiting through another, would not have been immediately obvious to me, either. My excuse is that I'm fortunate to not need to think about visas for most of my travel - and if the OP didn't need a Schengen visa either, probably is in the same place.
That pretty much sums up what I wanted to say, on each point. I'm fortunate enough to not need visas to most places I visit. Putting myself in the OP's shoes, I think I would have caught it if I was taking a flight between two cities in the same country but transiting a third, but not in his situation of going between two Schengen countries via a non-Schengen country. I realize that's a bit ironic, but I'm just sharing how I think I would have reacted.
I think the most likely answer is BA and LHR. I find it easier to believe that, all aspects of this considered, that they would have allowed the wife to go airside for an hour on the honor system there than at SVO. But that's just a guess.
Full credit to him, he really helped us out, and also to the carrier baggage handler office who while they were not happy to deal with us, did manage to find our bags.
Also thank you for the rest of your post as this is really the basis of my question - did the airline do the right thing to leave us there or should they have moved us somewhere else. I do feel given we had booked the entire itinerary of 6 legs with the Airline that they might have spent a bit more time giving us advice but perhaps that just isn't their responsibility. I do feel other carriers would have at least checked our booking and given us advice on what to do next. Perhaps I'm just nieve in that way.
The OP asked if booking through a travel agent would have prevented the difficulty. Maybe - if the agent was a certified specialist in travel to Europe and who was conversant with Schengen rules.
The other mystery is why single entry was chosen - to save money? Poor choice if true.
The other mystery is why single entry was chosen - to save money? Poor choice if true.
It's the Schengen visa-issuing authority that ultimately decides if the visa to be issued is to be a single entry visa or not.
Wouldn't they base that decision on the proposed itinerary?
Well, yes, but there's also a checkbox section on the application form: Single Entry, Two Entries, or Multiple Entries. I doubt that the OP checked Two or Multiple and that the embassy instead issued a Single, especially based on the submitted itinerary. I suppose it's possible, but I doubt it. Also, there is no option for "I dunno - you decide." Thus, I think it very likely that the OP, and not the embassy, chose the Single Entry option.
Thank you all so much for your replies. I feel a little guilty as I haven't been an active member of this community but I find the discussion and all of your insights really helpful and perhaps if I was I wouldn't run into this in the future so I'd like to stick around, thanks again for your help and feel free to ask me more! The only thing I'd like to avoid is giving out any personal info as my wife wouldn't be comfortable with it and I respect that, so I will avoid going into specifics about her nationality but suffice to say it is south-east asian and unfortunately not as permissive as a Singaporean passport.
Jul 3, 2016, 9:24 am
#41
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Thanks for coming back and the extensive response. It can really help others in a similar situation when you share all the details. (And I'm glad I guessed right it was IST and TK indeed!)
Hope you never run into visa issues again.
If you're an EU citizen, maybe you could get your wife a EU residence permit. Although that would probably require a stay in your home country for at least a couple of weeks.
Hope you never run into visa issues again.
If you're an EU citizen, maybe you could get your wife a EU residence permit. Although that would probably require a stay in your home country for at least a couple of weeks.
Jul 3, 2016, 11:58 am
#42
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OP: Thanks for your response. You appear to be a gentleman, and are to be applauded for seeking advice and being responsive to the feedback.
But, I am a bit confused: Are you saying that you were stopped mid-journey because your wife's visa was not issued correctly as a multiple-entry visa? Or, are you saying that the problems were that she did not obtain a Turkish visa?
But, I am a bit confused: Are you saying that you were stopped mid-journey because your wife's visa was not issued correctly as a multiple-entry visa? Or, are you saying that the problems were that she did not obtain a Turkish visa?
Jul 3, 2016, 2:52 pm
#43
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OP: Thanks for your response. You appear to be a gentleman, and are to be applauded for seeking advice and being responsive to the feedback.
But, I am a bit confused: Are you saying that you were stopped mid-journey because your wife's visa was not issued correctly as a multiple-entry visa? Or, are you saying that the problems were that she did not obtain a Turkish visa?
But, I am a bit confused: Are you saying that you were stopped mid-journey because your wife's visa was not issued correctly as a multiple-entry visa? Or, are you saying that the problems were that she did not obtain a Turkish visa?
By flying to IST even to connect, the passport was stamped with the exit visa from the EU so the person would need another EU visa to renter in any EU country.
In regards to IST even US passport holders need a visa to enter, but US citizens can get it just before exiting, which is not the case with all Passports. Id guess whatever Country the OPs wife is a citizen of doesnt have the visa on arrival option
Now this may start to be a problem to US citizens as well if the EU starts requiring US citizens to get a visa. If that goes into affect then those entering and exiting the EU as the OP wanted to do might just get us into the same situation as the OP found himself.
I know some folks who ran into this problem when visiting Vietnam and booked a side trip to Cambodia before heading to Hanoi+.Once they entered and left Nam that was the end of that visa they got and werent allowed back into Nam since they didnt have an unused visa
Jul 3, 2016, 3:03 pm
#44
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Jul 3, 2016, 3:40 pm
#45
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My guess is the OP said they had a single entry visa, and it seemed that was used up when they went into VCE. Had they flown non-stop to ATH from anywhere in Italy they would have been fine and no exit visa would have been stamped as it was most likely @ VCE.
By flying to IST even to connect, the passport was stamped with the exit visa from the EU so the person would need another EU visa to renter in any EU country.
By flying to IST even to connect, the passport was stamped with the exit visa from the EU so the person would need another EU visa to renter in any EU country.
The second paragraph above is indeed how it generally goes, but there may be at least one workaround if getting back to the same Schengen port of exit on the same day departure from the Schengen zone: finding a cooperative passport control person who marks the exit stamp as "not valid" or something like that. This would be a workaround that can't be reliably expected, but it has worked before and often enough that I'm mentioning it as something to consider as a possible way to try to recover from a trip stumble sort of akin to the OP's.
Originally Posted by craz
In regards to IST even US passport holders need a visa to enter, but US citizens can get it just before exiting, which is not the case with all Passports. Id guess whatever Country the OPs wife is a citizen of doesnt have the visa on arrival option
US citizens mostly must obtain Turkish visas from Turkish consulates/embassies or from Turkey’s e-visa website fee for an e-visa upon arrival fee of $30 (USD). For e-visas obtained prior to arrival in Turkey, the fee is $20.
Last edited by GUWonder; Jul 3, 2016 at 3:48 pm