Turkey - security question
 

Anybody been in Istanbul in the last few weeks? If so, any feeling of insecurity, etc. there as a westerner?

Have a business trip there in the first week of March and my wife will be joining me. My wife has some concerns (and I don't want to make the mistake of assuming things are static) so I thought I would ask on FT to get a perspective.

Thanks

Since you haven't received any replies yet: I haven't been to Istanbul in the last few months but I'm pretty sure there's nothing to worry about, other than the usual big city precautions.

Routine big city type crime, followed by a somewhat increased risk of terrorist attacks, have been causing some sense of insecurity; but most of the tourists coming from OECD countries to visit Istanbul have no problem while there, and there is a greater risk of getting killed or injured by a car accident closer to home than by some possible incident in Istanbul.

Thanks for the perspective - we're scheduled to arrive next Sunday for a week. It's a tough balance between being an overly concerned alarmist and being naively ignorant. That's always the problem with low probability events that have significant impacts.

JThe significance of a lot of the impact is barely more than a product of media and politics stirring up an audience inclined to be stirred up even when the actual number harmed/killed and the risk of injury or death are substantially lower from the cause that stirs more worry.

The marginal risks of some risks can be marginalized further by staying in rented apartments, not doing the usual tourist things, avoiding crowded or popular sites and some other such approaches. But then there goes some of the fun of being a tourist.

It is Istanbul.. it's not the Syrian border. Your biggest risk is over paying in restaurants.

This might be a time when it's worth the effort to register with the USA Department of State (website now, so you apparently don't have to contact the local consulate any more). It might make you and wife feel better. If you're concerned, either stay in a low key and more local hotel or stay in a top place with good security. [I've been impressed by the security at the Cirigan (spelling?) Palace, but I haven't been in Istanbul for a while.]

I would say the biggest risk is people (especially kids) asking for money around the tourist sites.

The registering doesn't necessarily make a person any more secure in their person and belongings than they would otherwise be. In some ways it could even increase some risks, even as those risks hitting an individual is akin to encountering a proverbial black swan.

Biggest risk, as almost everywhere in the world (although not including the USA, where gun deaths I believe marginally 'win') is getting killed in a car accident.

I was there last month... as safe as it's always been.

Thanks. We're leaving tomorrow and pretty comfortable with going. Only asked the question as more info is better than less. Thanks everyone for input. I'll update with my impressions when I get there or back.

Hope you have a great trip and please do report back when you get home.

OP: To increase security, have your wife be escorted by a reputable guide. He/She will know where to go and what to avoid. I used Arif Yasa, and was very pleased.

Good idea.. if you were visiting Kabul or Erbil.. but Istanbul.. come on.. Do not exaggerate! It's a modern western city.

Yes it is. But it is a city of 14 million people. I wouldn't want my wife walking around any city without a local resource. No offense intended to Istanbul or its people.

Does that go for her visits to large metro areas in the US too?

I see lots of female tourists wandering around Istanbul by themselves, in pairs or small groups. It's not that dangerous, at least compared to US metro areas; it's also not as safe as Singapore.

I'd feel a whole lot safer on my on than with a guide I didn't know.

It would go for any city in which her native tongue is not spoken, where signs are sometimes are not in her native language, where there is political instability and demonstrations, and where there are a host of well-documented professional guides who make their livelihoods showing tourists the city.

I don't think this is rocket science: The further away from one's own experience, the harder it is to detect potential threats. That is why tourists all around the world make easy targets.

Risks

Getting ripped off in taxis -- not assault or theft, but being charged 4X the local rate.

"My cousin owns a carpet shop and has a good sale -- please come and have some tea"

Attempt experienced today.

Prelude - I tore a calf muscle yesterday running after my camera in a cab. Didn't catch the cab but my hotel was able to connect with the cab driver by contacting the hotel I had gotten the cab at originally. Unfortunately for me, my attempt at recovery caused me some injury. Great example of really good cab drivers in Istanbul.

Event - so today, after a visit to the American Hospital, I used some walkers to get around a bit after lunch. When I got tired, I got in a cab near the Grand Bazaar and the driver warned me that the fare would be a lot as traffic was bad and I suspected I was going to get ripped off a bit but, frankly, it didn't really matter to me and I was tired so my wife and I took the cab.

When we got to the hotel (Conrad), the driver went into a song and dance about how he couldn't go up to the hotel as it was forbidden at that hour... but he could drop us at the street and we could walk through the park. I'd done the walk before tearing my calf so I said OK but I was already suspicious as I had spotted the meter and it was 107 TL ($43). I knew that was probably 3X what it should have been but, frankly, it didn't matter as I had pretty much expected it. So, I handed him a 100 and a 10 and got ready to leave. Then the guy got greedy and went into the "you didn't give me the correct amount rap" and handed me back a 20 and a 10. I looked at it and checked my cash - I knew I only had 1 100 with me and when I couldn't find it I knew he was trying to hustle me. I handed him back the 20 & 10, told him I had given him the correct amount and that if he had a problem with that, he could come to the hotel, got out of the cab and limped off with my walker.

So, definitely need to get cabs from safe spots.

Added: Link to some info on Istanbul taxis
http://www.wittistanbul.com/magazine...ul-taxi-scams/

Relative to my initial post on security, things are fine but there are clearly precautions (trunk searches, checks under cars with mirrors, metal detectors at hotels...). Better they do them and expect them - its a higher level of precaution than we've seen recently in other European cities.

Sounds like my hotel stays in Delhi, Bombay and elsewhere in India. I'm not so sure they are much more than feel-good, window-dressing measures of the sort that can be readily circumvented by those capable individuals intent upon doing so.

Agreed.

Haven't spent time in India so the measures aren't ones I have generally come across. I don't know how long they have been going on in Istanbul (I suspect for a while) and noted them so that others heading there for the first time would expect them.

It's become more prevalent since 2012, but my experience with IST may be rather selective. The FTer whom I fancy most for Turkey info: hfly. Someone should ask hfly about the prevalence of this and the history of such things in Istanbul.

What do you guys think is the security issue about Istanbul,I live in Turkey,I travel to the US,I sometimes wory abouth security issues,but certainly not in Istanbul,I just cannot understand this,Turkey is a police state,-OK,thats not good,but fore security it certainly IS!!!

There is VERY,VERY,litle street crime in Turkey,-why,-bcs there is very,very,many cops evrywhere in Turkey,-why,-well,-thats politics,-which is prohibited on here!!!

Why dont you just ask him to .... of,then,you dont risk anything by it,even if he starts threatening you,-nothing!!!

Jeeesus Christ,I,DO NOT understand this,last week I was in Houston,Texas,there I DO take care,evrywhere in Istanbul that any tourist/visiting bussiness man want to og is about ten million times safer,-sorry!!:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

On the security measures at hotels and other public facilities in Istanbul - I'd go a step further than "feel good window dressing" and suggest that it's also a product of low labor costs and a preoccupation with status and conspicuous consumption among the city's upper-middle class. Most of the private security guards in the housing sites, shopping centers, hotels ect... outside of the most touristic places do just about nothing, but make the residents and customers feel like they are well-off enough to be living in a place that requires protection. It's a very status-conscious culture, which has worked to the advantage of the many American brands actively franchising there. In fact, my wife used to work in an office building in Atasheir where the private security had a habit of watching cartoons on the CCTV monitors...

JMN57 - sorry to hear about your experience! If you are still in town you should know the metro system is surprisingly friendly to people with reduced mobility, though the metro is unfortunately a bit far from the Conrad.

Thanks. Cabs have been fine and pretty inexpensive with USD being strong right now. Once we figured out that there are "real" cabs and "gypsie" cabs that look alike but have subtle differences (alike = taksi sign, yellow; differences=branding/association on side eg Pera Palace Taksi), it's not been a problem.

Still here, flying out tomorrow. After a lot of the classic tourist sights, today will be observing some of that conspicuous consumption (and maybe a little participation) by hitting Zorlu, Kanyon and Istiniye malls. In fairness to myself, I am involved in retail so checking these out is a little bit of work/research.

Conrad, as you say, is not near metro but has been a great place to stay. Great breakfast buffet (free for Hilton GLD/PLAT), wonderful views from rooftop bar, recently remodeled rooms, excellent/friendly/helpful staff.

BTW, we have some common ground. Lived in SEA for 9 years (CEO of a company there) and grew up near BGM (close to ITH).

I'd echo that, especially about a city like Istanbul, which is basically a safe place for tourists.

Yes, at least 2 out of 3 taxis in Istanbul will try to overcharge you in some way, even those called by your hotel.

Also, another issue for women visitors (alone or in groups, or when separated from male companions) in Istanbul touristy areas (mostly old town), they get hit on constantly and shamelessly, including from hotel staff, shop owners, in the street, everywhere, very sleazy, unprofessional, and potentially unsafe situation. I have witnessed many examples of the above, including in 4-star hotels.

My wife and I are heading there in 3 weeks. Seems like nothing to worry about other than normal common sense when traveling.

I've spent a lot of time in Turkey, and I have friends (blonde Western female friends) who live there and have for years.

I've never felt any less safe than in any large city, I feel safer in Istanbul than in Philadelphia, Paris, or Rome.

My Turkish is pretty basic (I can say a few pleasantries and ask for food) but I've wandered around alone with no problem. Sultanahmet is crawling with tourists and totally safe for a woman alone, not to mention gorgeous and a great way for your wife to kill time while you're busy.

In my experience, Turkish people are very friendly and helpful if you are in trouble of any kind, especially women. Whenever I've been lost or need help anywhere in the world, I just pop into a store or coffee shop and find a female employee. My first trip to Istanbul my friend and I got totally lost and the tea shop ladies gave us a bunch of free pastries after helping us find our way (by pointing, smiling and pantomime).

If it makes your wife feel more comfortable, she can always carry a scarf and put it on her head if the neighborhood starts to look a little conservative. If anything though, the more religious neighborhoods are safer because no one is drinking.

Just watch out for too much baklava

You will also hear a lot of time-honored classics, like "my friend, I have my store around here, do you want to buy a 5,000 euro carpet?", to which you should respond "I am going sightseeing and will be back", or "do you have a facebook?", lol...

Outside of Istanbul, does anyone have recent experience or insight to safety concerns visiting Izmir, Adana or Antakya? I'm scheduled to be traveling to these places with a larger German tour group next week...don't see any current warnings on the US Government site, but Antakya is pretty close to the Syrian border.

UK Foreign Office is advising against all but essential travel to Hatay, which would include Antakya.
https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/turkey

Canada has similar advice:
http://travel.gc.ca/destinations/turkey

EDIT: Removed fragment of sentence erroneously left behind.

No, they say that there are demonstrations in Istanbul, Ankara and Izmir, and that people should avoid them (the demos, not the cities!). Pretty logical, I'd say (my father gave me the same piece of advice more than 50 years ago ;)), but they really don't say that one should not travel to Izmir.

That was a typing error, or rather clearly a scrap of the sentence that was left behind from editing - as it also had the word 'Adana fine' on the next line. Given a link was provided, clearly I would not have intended to say that they advised against Izmir.

Based upon your rather selective quote, if the full post is consider I could quite easily have been saying " and also Izmir (line break) Adana fine." - being what they are advising.
I removed that bit on the basis of only wanting to state what official advice was against, however it did say "Izmir (line break) Adana fine". At the time of your post.

Accordingly, less of the patronising tone perhaps?

Sorry, I didn't know you were in such a bad mood today... :)

Thanks for the info, much appreciated.

I was there last month and it felt normal and safe. Really enjoyed it.