LondonElite

Do you have any supporting evidence of this?

I doubt there is any significant pricing difference between the US passport and passports of EU countries such as UK, Germany, Denmark, etc, as these all allow visa-free access to something like 160+ countries.

GUWonder

The Finnish and Swedish passports are more useful for valid travel than a US passport, for the former has fewer or lower costs for entry than would be the case if using a US passport. Beside legitimate visa-free travel opportunities, the costs for visas and lower/fewer reciprocity fees are part of the picture of value for legitimate use. For more questionable use, those aspects are way less of a driver in blackmarket value than other things.

Some people may want to believe that but it doesn't make it true in or for all underground markets.

The value varies by market. In some markets, the US passport is way less valuable than passports of some other countries.

"Think of the demand side for migrating using illegitimate documents and the trafficking flows related to that. The document suppliers to such migrants go after travel docs that are most useful to most of their local 'customers'.". That should help indicate that the value varies greatly from market to market.

LupineChemist

I've been told by some in the know that US is most valuable followed by UK and then Brazil because people of any ethnicity will pretty much be unquestioned for having those passports.

GUWonder

There is definitely a very substantial element of a stolen blank passport's value being related to how easily it can be used by various ethnic groups' individuals.

But for completed passports that are to be fraudulently used and that end up on black markets -- the ones commonly stolen from tourists -- the value is nowhere close to as uniform globally as may have been suggested.

State's DS and other groups have tried to do surveys on this, and the findings have been all over the place.

The US and UK are no longer the only OECD countries that have a substantial minority of citizens who are of non-European ethnic origins and may have been naturalized.

For unlawful migration patterns to/via Spain, I would expect Brazilian, US and UK passports to have high values on the blackmarket. But a stolen Danish or Swedish passport is going to work as well or better. And a Moroccan passport for a 25-year-old with a partially-used Schengen visa will fly off the proverbial shelf faster than the Brazilian or US passport in North Africa.

The one thing that has also made US stolen passports more valuable is that they are most frequently valid for up to ten years. [But the perception of black-market US passports being valuable is what has had people in the US at least fleetingly consider reducing validity period for adults' passports to 5 years too. Fortunately, that's sort of hard to justify.]

alexandrosmikure

It`s smart to keep your passport everywhere u can go (in eu) and don't mind for anything just use public places and be there on normal time and all will be cool

Captain Schmidt

That may be true but there is no requirement to carry ID on one's person in the UK, so no need for ID cards.

Aviatrix

But this makes life awkward for Brits in countries where carrying ID is compulsory - i.e., the choice is between carrying one's (bulky) passport, or carrying something which may or may not be accepted by the authorities in other countries (such as a driving licence).

And please note that my post was a reply to someone who couldn't understand why we don't just all go and get a national identity card - he didn't seem to know that there are places where they don't exist, and I was trying to educate him.

Captain Schmidt

I think we worry about this a little too much. I've lived in Switzerland the last 3 years and only ever carry my Swiss driving licence. In that time I've been stopped once whilst driving by the Swiss cops who asked to see my licence and insurance, nothing else. As has been pointed out upthread, police just aren't stopping and asking for papers very 5 minutes, though I also appreciate that as a caucasian I'm significantly less likely to get hassled.

GUWonder

Americans are sort of in the same situation. But my valid US passports have been refused as ID in Europe by some police and by some stores and banks when I have been there in person. Rather bizarre given that in other circumstances their colleagues at other locations would accept the same US passport as ID for me.

It has resulted in some bizarre situations where I get a local lawyer -- who may have just met me -- to say that my passport is mine. And then the police would finally accept my passport for a given purpose, even though the same law enforcement agency had accepted my passport and me before and after for other purposes.

nrr

What documents would have been better for a US citizen; besides a drivers license (and a pp), the average American citizen has NO other official documents. [Somewhere, here on FT, I think I read that TSA has accepted COSTCO cards, if a traveler didn't have/lost their id--since COSTCO is world-wide, would that be an acceptable ID in lieu of a pp.]

nrr

If a traveler is using any type of railpass, you can be requested to show a pp as ID on a train. Many railpasses besides being used on long distance trains are valid on subway and commuter lines, which might be used daily (hence having your pp).

Captain Schmidt

I'm intrigued - in what circumstances did European police "refuse" your ID?

GUWonder

Amongst the situations: as ID for myself when getting new or renewal EU passports issued on behalf of wards for whom I had then been granted a legal guardian or co-guardian status. This wasn't a one-off situation. It was a systematic refusal, as the national police refused the US passports as acceptable ID in those circumstances for many other Americans in these and related situations too.

And that was systematic refusal. There are less systematic refusals that have also taken place.

Dragonbelle

If I may ask, what did the national police expect you to do then? Or was that when you had to call in a local lawyer?

Also, were your relatives' passports stolen from the hotel room safe or the front desk safe? It also seems like half of people will say a room safe's fine, and the other half will say absolutely not.

GUWonder

The police who refused my US passports asked me to find anyone whom I sort of knew who happened to have what they consider an acceptable ID; and to get that person to sign off on something which said that they know I am the person in the passport signing/co-signing the document for passport application/release. I happened to call a lawyer but it could have been anyone else with a national ID number, or -- if present with me there -- any other acceptable ID. A US passport not being acceptable ID by itself for these purposes, even as the national police otherwise accept the same passport for admissibility and legal presence (immigration) purposes.

About my relatives' stolen passports, it was mostly from the safes in hotel rooms.