Does Schipol suck?
 

Is it just me or does AMS really blow?

I have not been here for 20 years and now I just had 4 visits in 2 weeks. So far

- I came off a Schengen area flight and didn't see a single sign to the trains until I left Schipol Plaza
- The ticket machines for the trains only accept chip and pin cards so no dice for cardholders from the Americas.
- Amsterdam Central is not a terminal so doesn't appear on any platform screens (Surely most tourists want to go there?)
- The check in desks are sideways on, so you have to walk the full length of the hall to see where your check in is.
-All of the *A carriers are in check in zone 3, apart from Lufthansa/Swiss/Austrian which is in check in zone 1, desk 1, it is not possible to be further away from the other *A carriers.
- The signs do not match the desks. "This way to check in desks 1-20" even though 17-20 is in hall 3 and the sign directs you away from them.
-Coming out of the main exit next to Café Rembrandt, the sign for hotel shuttles tells you to turn left, they are actually to the right.

Am I alone or is anyone in agreement?

Why would you expect to see a sign for trains at a departure/landing gate? There are signs to local transport in the main building, whereas most gates are not.Which is why they have a ticket office in the same area, staffed by human people.If by "platform screens" you mean the track displays over the stairways, then it most certainly is displayed (although using the Dutch "Centraal" instead of English). Due to trackwork a week or two ago, however, there were no trains between Schiphol and Amsterdam Centraal. There were buses instead.I'm not sure what that means, but Schiphol is not so much different from other European airports in layout.The hall and desk numbers are displayed on the departure screens. I use those and go directly to my flight.As far as I know, each hall has the same desk numbers.I live in Amsterdam, so I really don't know where the hotel shuttle buses stop.[QUOTE]

Overall, we did not have any major problems at AMS, I do remember two issues though:

- Getting to Amsterdam Centraal was not so straight forward. Trains left from different tracks and signage was not very clear. I believe we were told the next train was from track 7, missed it and then found out that the one after that left from a different track, so we missed that one as well. It would help if one track was reserved for trains going into the city. Not sure if we ended up using a train that was included in our type of ticket, but did not have any problems.

- Connecting from a TATL flight from IAD to a flight to FRA, we had to walk pretty far to get to the right gate. Everything was clearly marked, but I remember the walk being rather long.

Agree that Schipol is very big. I'm sure I walked halfway to LGW before I got on the plane.

And then once on the plane, it drove the most of the remaining distance to LGW.

2. the ticket machine @ AMS is actually the only one in the network that accepts US-issued chipped cards (chip + sign)
3. yes, the signage for Centraal is quite poor. even im confused over multiple visits
4. check-in also bad, esp for *A

its just not good for *A flyers

AFAIK, there is no track 7 at Schiphol. There are three platforms and six tracks. The train to Amsterdam leaves usually from platform one, track one. It usually only leaves from a different track if there is an unscheduled (or scheduled) event.


Signage not clear? There is a national train schedule shown in one display http://www.metronieuws.nl/_internal/...NP-995315.jpeg

(as well as the printed schedule seen in the bottom right of the photo) and a display over each of the three platforms, such as this one:

http://imagene.youropi.com/Schiphol_...,Schiphol).jpg.


You will note that Amsterdam Centraal is abbreviated in the photo as Amsterdam CS (Centraal Station).

Maybe I'm mistaken about track 7 and it was a different one.

All I can say though is that at the time it was not completely clear to us what to do. The ticket we received was only valid on certain types of trains and not all trains that went through Amsterdam CS had that listed as the destination. Trains definitely left from different tracks and if one missed a train, one had to go all the way back out from the platform to find out where the next one would leave from.

I'm not saying this was a huge problem for us that could not be solved, but if the airport was looking for suggestions on how to make things easier, this is what I would point out.

All train platforms in the Netherlands (including Schiphol) have full train schedules displayed on them like this (on the left, from Schiphol):

http://www.melookyoubook.com/wp-cont...-Panoramio.jpg

I would also point out that this is not unique to the Netherlands - trains stations all over Europe, including Germany - have these schedules directly on the platform so you don't need to go far to get information.

There is, or was, at least one ticket machine at AMS that takes non-chip cards. You needed to look for the little VISA logo. There was also one at Centraal - hard to find outside the ticket office. But as stated you can also buy a ticket from a person for a surcharge.

Ha ha

Mainly just me then :p

I just felt as a casual visitor that it would not have taken much additional effort to have made the whole experience much more intuitive all around. And I am fairly certain that AMS is the only airport that I have felt that way about.

The last time I was at AMS (couple of years ago) the person at the ticket office refused to accept any of my swipe and sign cards. Had to go to an ATM and get cash. Has this changed?

both the booth and the automated machines accept sign cards

Are you sure? It has been my experience that only a very limited number of the automated machines take anything other that the Netherlands cards, and you really need to hunt to find one that will take a swipe and sign card - if any exist any longer at all.

They are not Netherlands cards, they are European cards as they are accepted all over Europe, not only in the Netherlands.

Indeed, the machines take Maestro and V-Pay debit cards along side the Dutch 'PIN' system. However, this is quite limiting, as their use outside the Low Countries is very patchy. Really wish they would take more cards, even if you do have to pay a nominal supplement!

Count me in too... ;)

I had 2 connections (train to plane + return) at AMS a few weeks ago, and I honestly found the entire place rather confusing - and I was generally wondering what all the acclaims are about.

To put this in perspective: I used AMS regularly (as in weekly) over a long period about 10-15 years ago, I speak Dutch (and English of course) and I am a fairly experienced traveler. So this is not a case of a once-a-year tourist being overwhelmed... :p

Strange, I speak those languages as well, use it less than you do (and I live in Amsterdam) and I find that it works fine for me. I have no idea what you find confusing about it.

I did commute to/from Schiphol for about 5 years, and started off travelling there with colleagues, so it's difficult to see it through the eyes of an infrequent user (or someone doing something outside their usual). However, I would say:

• The concept of having a single airside terminal (other than the Schengen/non-Schengen split) for an airport principally set up for connections is laudable. But it can cause other hassles. Not least what happens with arrivals belts and the position of the check-in desks relative to the pier you're going to be departing from.
• You have to know that "Schiphol Plaza" is where you find landside shops, trains, buses and hire cars. There's an overreliance on the label.
• The train situation is complicated by its very flexibility. You can travel from this station to all over the Netherlands and even adjoining countries, all for the price of a normal air fare. You can have your choice of routes into Amsterdam (Centraal or Zuid) with intermediate stations as well. So, for someone expecting to turn up and catch a shuttle service to the main station, it's not going to be that simple. Although they have at least now clearly marked trains that are going to Zuid rather than Centraal.
• It's normal the KLM have the most convenient check-in desks, as they're by far the dominant carrier. But seriously, some of the others are ridiculously located relative to the pier you're going to depart from.
• There really need to be more, better located ATMs.
• If you're going to put a big barrier up to separate Schengen from non-Schengen, please don't make us cross from one to the other to find a lounge! Ah yes, the old BD days...

However, given all of that... I still prefer it to many, many airports.

I've used US-issued CCs successfully @ the airport kiosks. Outside the airport (Centraal, Rotterndam, Leiden, etc) they do not work. The staff say that the airport machines are an exception. They will, however, take foreign issued bank cards via Maestro

Just for the sake of nitpicking: PIN no longer exists and has been replaced by Maesto and V-Pay. The brand "PIN" continues to exist, but the technology is Maestro.

Generally I prefer AMS over many other hubs of similar size. If people find AMS confusing I can't fathom what you'd say about a place like FRA.

I love Schipol and find it generally pleasant compared to most airports. There are (can be?) really big gaps between signs though - not a big deal if you are aware of that and aren't in a rush.

Let me tell you then, because I made two connections in FRA too.

I had similar feelings in FRA but the only real confusion seemed to be how to get out or even where to go if you were doing a Schengen to non-Schengen connection. Longer walks at FRA too. But AMS seems to have spread the confusion around much more and snook it into every conceivable corner.

Good One!

My wife is Japanese, but can read and speak English (although not nearly as well as the OP), but hardly a word of Dutch. She can easily get around Schiphol without any confusion.

I find it interesting and revealing that the OP hasn't even spelled the name of the airport correctly.

I landed at AMS (on a UA flight) earlier this month and was surprised at my most recent experience at Schipol. I had remembered it as an efficient and pleasant airport from my previous visits in the 80's & 90's, but this time it was different.

The decor and facilities looked dated and uninviting. The signage was poor. It was a long walk from the gate to baggage claim. Poor and small immigration control area fed by inbound passengers coming down escalators and stairs with lack of space and major congestion. Long wait for baggage.

There were 2 machines to buy train tickets at the baggage area, but none would accept cash. Outside in the public arrival hall, the signage was not good for direction to the ticketing booths to buy train tickets into town. Also, I think I had to pay a surcharge buying them from an agent instead of the machines.

Which airport was this? It doesn't sound at all like my hometown airport. How about JFK or Newark airports in the US where each airline is in a separate building? Is that more convenient?

Your bank won't upgrade to newer, safer credit cards and that is the fault of the airport?

Sorry about the spelling gaffe.

I don't doubt that your Japanese wife knows Schiphol like the back of her hand, given she is your wife then she probably uses AMS much more often than i either have or am likely to.

I have twice alluded that my considering the airport to be "sucky" is because it is not an intuitive place to arrive at as a casual visitor and that it would not take much effort to iron out the suckiness. I am sure that after a couple more visits I would have the place licked.

I don't think it is a question of foreign banks "upgrading" so much as having taken a different route. And I am not sure of the different sides of the safety dabate and practicality of each type of card. For what it's worth, I prefer Chip and PIN too but that is not what my bank issued me with.

AMS is a very major international hub and so far as I can tell, at least most of the Americas do not have Chip and PIN cards. So perhaps it would have been prudent to have installed less restrictive ticket machines.

It's not just AMS that questions the international versatility of Visa and Mastercard. Washington Metro's ticket machines do not accept a card unless you are able to enter a US ZIP code. How quaintly inward looking of them.

Oh, so you think she has memorised every square centimeter of the airport and you could blindfold her and she would still find her way around? No. It's because she can read English and pays attention to the signs around her. Something you and some of the other critics apparently have trouble doing.
Intuitive? You mean, that with three blank doors you would "intuitively" pick the right one? My friend, all of us who travel have the experience of coming into buildings for the first (or second time). We look for the signs, we read them and we pay attention.

I suspect you are thinking an airport should be more like a hotel. Most hotels are indeed intuitive. There will be a reception desk in the lobby. There will be elevators nearby, etc., etc.

So instead of complaining that this machine doesn't accept your card, why don't you complain to your bank? And it is most definitely not a question of US banks "taking a different route," it is a question of US banks (and maybe some others as well) sticking with the existing product, rather than upgrading it.Sorry, point one and point two may seem logical in your mind because yours doesn't work. But mine does (and all over Europe and, yes, even in the US) so I don't make that connection. Should the British have left-hand drive in the airports because they get a lot of international visitors?
You have my sympathies, that is indeed pretty primitive. Wasn't there an accident a few years ago in the US space program because of a confusion over whether they were using inches and feet or centimeters and meters?

Standards are usually a good thing. But, if someone comes along with something that doesn't meet that standard, whose fault is that?

Not really, US banks implemented Chip + Signature instead of Chip and PIN. As I said, I prefer Chip + PIN but US banks are not going to move in that direction for whatever reason. Chip + Signature was a different route to Chip + PIN but a move forward from Swipe + Signature.

The day a significant number of international travellers arrive at UK airports with their road going vehicles, yes, I think the British should review which side of the road they drive on. Until then, it is a bit of a tenuous argument.

Yes, the Hubble telescope program

I am not saying that it is AMS's fault for the non-compliance of my bank card. I am saying that such a substantial quantity of bank cards are non-compliant that it would be prudent to see that there is a means of accepting both standards.

I actually didn't suggest that your wife had remembered every square centimetre of AMS, nor that she should be blindfolded (although we can probably discuss the benefits of this in OMNI) nor did I suggest that AMS should be like a hotel.

All your suggestions, not mine

That's very nice, but it is not the standard. The standard is Chip + Pin and if your banks won't implement it, complain to them. You have that right, don't you?
I'm sure the Brits would find that quite amusing.

"Substantial quantity"? What exactly does that mean? As you correctly pointed out, Schiphol is an international airport and we get lots of visitors from other parts of Europe, the middle east and other parts of the world. Yet, you feel Schiphol needs to make a special case for north Americans because their banks don't want to upgrade? I think the message is pretty clear: there's a standard - if you don't want to meet it, we'll charge you a bit extra. And isn't that exactly what they've done?

I wasn't making suggestions, I was commenting on your criticisms, which I find completely unfounded.

If my wife, who speaks and reads less English than you can easily find her way around the airport, why can't you?

How is an airport intuitive? Why don't you explain that as you never have.

Well I made a point to not suggest North Americans, I am not from North America, I have a Chip + Sig card issued in South America, we are talking about the Americas as a whole. So 300 million USA, 200 million Brazil, 60 million Mexicans? 45 million Colombians etc. We could be talking a billion people in the Americas when we add everyone up. That is 1/6 of the world which I think is fairly substantial and given the fondness that North Americans have for their credit cards. It could be an even great proportion of cards issued.

I meant to say the machines won't take cash - I have edited my post.

This was at AMS, indeed. I am not taking about JFK, Newark or anywhere else, just my recent experience at AMS. It was not a good experience.

No need to get so defensive!

I don't know about the rest of the Americas, but I have read that less than 20 percent of those from the US have passports. I think it would be reasonable to assume that not all 20 percent fly to Amsterdam at the same time. So, start with 300 million, reduce that to 60 million and then reduce that by substantially more and you'll see my point. I would expect that people from the US make up a rather small (less than 10 percent) of the arriving passengers at Schiphol.

And no need for you to get so critical! Your description and my experience differ by night and day.