KeithGP

I'm trying to celebrate my 40th overseas. I'm trying to figure out the best itinerary to spend 12-14 days and see London, Paris, Rome, and maybe Venice too.

My plan is to fly from DFW into London on the big American or British Airways B777 then use the rail to Paris, then the rail to Rome.

1) Would it be advantageous to rail BACK to London and fly back home there or fly back from Rome which I don't think will be non-stop?

2) Can we buy a rail ticket that will allow us to just get on and off trains when we want between Paris and Rome? Maybe we can stop at a few locations instead of that LONG trip to Rome?

3) Are private cabins on those trains worth it?

4) If we use an overnight train to sleep instead of wasting a hotel room, what can we do with our bags between the time when we check out at noon from the hotel and the time that the train leaves? Will European hotels hold bags for us?

We're reading as much as possible but any ideas or thoughts or things you wouldn't do would be great. Things like "watch out for pickpockets" was great to read.

Thanks as always,
Keith

stimpy

You can absolutely fly non-stop from Rome to London. BA and AZ fly that route several times per day. I would fly as you will have the rail experience down already. Unless you are stressing about money, just purchase the train ticket on the spot or a day or two in advance on the rail operators website. That gives you more flexibility.

And yes, any decent luxury hotel in Europe will hold your bags.

Palal

Welcome to FT, KeithGP!
Congrats! Let's see what we can help you out with
I would suggest flying back from Rome. You'd have to go through ORD or JFK [AA] or LHR [BA] to get to DFW. This way you'd have more time to spend in Europe and not waste time going back to LON.
I would suggest looking into rail passes. This page should help you out with the basics. Railpasses are not good on Eurostar trains that go from London to Paris under the English Channel, but may provide some discount, depending on the pass.

High-speed trains are priced like airline tickets, so the cheaper the fare, the more restrictions you have. Eurostar fares can be had for as low as 30€ one-way.
Generally all long-distance high-speed trains in France and Italy require reservations, as do overnight trains. Local/regional trains usually require that you purchase a ticket beforehand. If you have a railpass, you will need to activate it and write in the date/time for each day that you use. Even if you have rail passes you still need to purchase a reservation (a few €€) for the high-speed trains that you want to take.

In Western Europe only overnight trains have those. If you end up reserving them, you will need to look at what's on offer. All other trains don't have private compartments.
Yes, they'll hold bags. Also all major train stations have lockers or bag hold for a small fee. Some require the bags to be screened like at an airport.

Try to plan as much as you can, but leave some wiggle room. Give yourself a day or two of rest from sightseeing in the middle of your trip. Two weeks seems like a lot, but for all 3 cities that you want to see, it's not that much, as there is a lot to see in each of these cities. If you decide to NOT take the overnight train between Paris and Rome, you can look into visiting southern France or a part of Switzerland. However, I would caution not to cram too much into the itinerary.

Another thing to remember -- London is not England, Paris is not France, and Rome is not Italy. They're capitals . Enjoy your trip and search the forums and ask us if you have any more questions.

Jay71

Coincidentally, I'm helping my sister and brother in law plan a trip with similar itinerary for their 50th.

I suspect you'd likely get a cheaper flight doing a round trip to/from London since it's a hub. Personally, we generally try to build open jaw itineraries when we travel to prevent "wasted" time routing back to where we landed even if it'll cost a bit extra.

I'm open to being corrected... but I believe you can generally hop on and off with point to point tix. Reservations however are only good for the specific train/time you booked for. However, as the other poster mentioned, most high speed trains require reservations and are only good for that specific trip. For your itinerary, you'd likely require Eurostar from London to Paris and TGV from Paris to Nice/southern France for high speed trains.
Not sure if a Eurail pass will be worth getting versus just doing point to point. Also, I'd recommend looking into flying Easyjet from Paris to Rome/Venice. Personally, I love being able to travel from downtown to downtown via train (versus the hassles of getting to airport, security, waiting, etc) but the segment from Paris to Italy is long enough that it's worth seriously considering a LCC flight IMO.

Sleeping on an overnight train isn't for everyone. We've done it twice. My wife hates it. I'm ok with it. Serious think about whether you want to do this.
We've never had a problem with a hotel holding bags for us both with us arriving early & our room not being ready and us checking out but not leaving traveling until later.

stimpy

There is no high speed Paris-Rome. There is a direct train which is slow and takes 15 hours but has 1st class sleepers. I think the full price is €127 per person and you can reserve a double for you and your wife. Or you can take a high speed to Bale (CH), then another slower train to Milano, then high speed Trenitalia to Roma. Personally I would take route that to sample some more cities along the way.

JoostvD

I think you could make this trip much easier if, instead of making a line, you made a circle. What I mean is that after landing in London, you go straight away from it. Why not turn east instead of south?

So, after Paris, you could travel through Belgium, Germany, The Netherlands or Denmark. From any of these countries, you could quickly and easily get back to London. From Copenhagen, there is a ferry (you will get a cabin and sleep on the sea). From the Netherlands, there is also a ferry (very cheap) to England. From Belgium and Germany, there are trains to go back to London.

Sometimes it is easier to change the destination than the transport.

kaka

i think this trip (London paris rome) is good for first timers as compared to JoostvD...

However, is rome the only place you want to see? I'd suggest getting off at firenze (florence) on the night train, store luggage, and move onto rome later the day.

Alternatively away from night trains, take LH-Italia Paris-Milan, overnight and spend half a day touring milan; then head south to florence and/or rome.

BA can easily take you back to London for sensible prices; and there is always easyjet or ryanair if you dont have luggage!

pacer142

Note, though, that Travelodges will explicitly *not* offer this service, not even for a fee, unless things have changed which I think they haven't. Most full-service hotels will, though, and main railway stations (in the UK only the biggest ones) usually offer the service at an often-substantial price.

Neil

pacer142

Check easyJet and Ryanair anyway - just factor in the baggage charge when comparing the prices. I certainly recommend the former - I use them twice a week at the moment and have done extensively in the past and I find them generally reliable and the crews friendly (particularly those based at LTN, but I only recall having a miserable crew once), and the prices usually good as well.

You also get to avoid Heathrow - EZY fly to Gatwick from Rome. Unfortunately not Luton, though, which is one of the better London airports to use in terms of getting through quickly, though admittedly it's a long way out of London.

Neil

KeithGP

Great great info. I thought about a multi-city, open jaw flight but I can't use AAdvantage Award miles into or out of Rome (NO AVAILABILITY). I thought of doing the trip backwards and going from Rome back up to London then flying out, but no go, so I may have to book a round trip from London then when we get to Rome, fly back to London then back to home.

We are trying to find out what stops to make on a train from Paris to Rome. We want to stop in Milan and Venice before Rome but don't really know how and what we're doing for what cost AND if we should buy tickets in advance or not. We would love to see "The Last Supper" in Milan and visit Hotel Danieli in Venice since we just saw it in the movie, "The Tourist" AND it's a Starwood property where I have points.

Tentative Itinerary:

Fly into Heathrow,
3 Days London
Chunnel to Paris
4 Days Paris
Some train or overnight to Milan
1 Day in Milan
Train to Venice
1 Day Venice
Train to Rome
4 Days Rome
Fly back to Heathrow
Fly Home

We can easily adjust days and would love to see some things on that train trip from Paris to Rome.

stimpy

Your itinerary looks fine, except I would probably try to spend at least two nights in Venice. The Danieli is a fabulous hotel and one night is too short of a rush around. You can easily book a train from Paris to Milano, then individual trains around Italy.

Paris to Milano is about 7 hours with Artesia and they have both a day and night train.

Travelomania

Just a suggestion and FWIW: ... You can avoid the highest departure taxes in the EU - the UK added Air Passenger Duty Tax - by NOT departing from LHR to return back home and easily save yourself enough to pay for the train ride on the Eurostar
Instead make it an Open Jaw - fly into LHR, but depart from either BRU, CDG, CPH, AMS, FCO or any other neighboring airport on your train route.
Also note that Inter-Europe flights are dirt cheap when booked sometime in advance.

railways

I'd stay a day less in Rome and an extra day in Venice - it's at it's best by far in the early morning and evening when all the day-trippers haven't arrived/have gone. You might also consider stopping at Florence - even if only for a few hours on the way to Rome. You can leave bags at the station and walk around the centro storico and maybe have lunch. Venice to Florence is only 2 hours by train and Florence to Rome a mere hour-and-a-half.

stimpy

The other airports have their taxes too. At least CDG and AMS do. And CDG has an extra large business and first class tax.

But it is a good suggestion to shop around to see which one is best. And the OP would get to see more of Europe.

Travelomania

Of course they do, however not on par with the UK tax - which basically is an added long-haul penalty.
My personal fav monthly itinerary is into LHR and out of BRU or MXP ..