Upgraded at check-in without confirmation
#16




Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: UK. BAEC AAdvantage
Programs: Mucci Des Oeufs Brouilles et des Canards
Posts: 3,764
#17



Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: AU, UG, NG, ET, others
Programs: EK (plat), ET, VA, QF
Posts: 607
I don't believe that the person didn't know how many miles were required. The system will always tell the operator how many miles you have and how many are required. You should have been told the miles you spent.
Never walk away assuming what was done. Remember the golden rule:
"Assumption is the mother of all f***ups"
Last edited by BadoRas; Nov 15, 2019 at 2:32 am
#18


Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 6,349
Unfortunate for the OP, however there are too many issues here for the story to add up. The OP had apparently forgotten he had a saver fare. He also could have checked online how much an upgrade would have cost. Then he could have queried it at the point of upgrading instead of assuming it was complementary. Then took the seat in F anyway and got upset after enjoying the service.
Also when did you know EK to give away upgrades from Y saver to F for free? For a regular traveller it sounds a bit naive to me.
The other angle to this is there are so many nationalities working at DXB that in my experience you have to be quite explicit. If it was an enquiry from the OP to the agent then better to ask "can you tell me how many miles will it cost to upgrade this sector to F?". I can see how a comment like "can I upgrade to F using miles" might have been misinterpreted by someone trying to be helpful.
Chances of a refund - zero I'm afraid.
Also when did you know EK to give away upgrades from Y saver to F for free? For a regular traveller it sounds a bit naive to me.
The other angle to this is there are so many nationalities working at DXB that in my experience you have to be quite explicit. If it was an enquiry from the OP to the agent then better to ask "can you tell me how many miles will it cost to upgrade this sector to F?". I can see how a comment like "can I upgrade to F using miles" might have been misinterpreted by someone trying to be helpful.
Chances of a refund - zero I'm afraid.
#19




Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Economy, mostly :(
Programs: Skywards Gold
Posts: 7,791
Unfortunate for the OP, however there are too many issues here for the story to add up. The OP had apparently forgotten he had a saver fare. He also could have checked online how much an upgrade would have cost. Then he could have queried it at the point of upgrading instead of assuming it was complementary. Then took the seat in F anyway and got upset after enjoying the service.
Also when did you know EK to give away upgrades from Y saver to F for free? For a regular traveller it sounds a bit naive to me.
The other angle to this is there are so many nationalities working at DXB that in my experience you have to be quite explicit. If it was an enquiry from the OP to the agent then better to ask "can you tell me how many miles will it cost to upgrade this sector to F?". I can see how a comment like "can I upgrade to F using miles" might have been misinterpreted by someone trying to be helpful.
Chances of a refund - zero I'm afraid.
Also when did you know EK to give away upgrades from Y saver to F for free? For a regular traveller it sounds a bit naive to me.
The other angle to this is there are so many nationalities working at DXB that in my experience you have to be quite explicit. If it was an enquiry from the OP to the agent then better to ask "can you tell me how many miles will it cost to upgrade this sector to F?". I can see how a comment like "can I upgrade to F using miles" might have been misinterpreted by someone trying to be helpful.
Chances of a refund - zero I'm afraid.
#20
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 497
I find the cryptic answer to the question of miles cost to be really odd. OP asked how much it cost. If the employee had given him a straight answer there wouldn't have been an issue here. OP isn't obliged to know how many miles it costs by checking up front and his failure to do so is pretty much irrelevant. The employee should have answered with "yes, an upgrade is possible and will cost X miles, would you like me to proceed?" At the very least they should have answered the "what did this cost?" with a simple "x miles". The answer given makes it sound like OP has been given some sort of deal, or that the employee is being playful in providing some sort of extra.
If I went into a store and, having just handed over my card to pay for my TV, I enquired if they had a service package, I'd be pretty narked if they replied with "done!!!" and when I asked what they'd charged my card they told me "I can't tell you, ho ho ho". I mean really. These miles cost a packet to buy, what kind of answer is "I can't tell you"? Imagine if you'd asked if you asked if they had cash upgrades and they replied with "done" and "I can't tell you".
I tend to agree with OPs read of the situation. My assumption would be that I had a free upgrade, not that for reasons unknown the staff member was refusing to tell me how much I'd been charged for a product I hadn't agreed to buy. So I'd probably also take my seat thinking "Bonus, an op-up".
OP, I'd go ask them to restore the miles. You already have "no" so what do you have to lose?
If I went into a store and, having just handed over my card to pay for my TV, I enquired if they had a service package, I'd be pretty narked if they replied with "done!!!" and when I asked what they'd charged my card they told me "I can't tell you, ho ho ho". I mean really. These miles cost a packet to buy, what kind of answer is "I can't tell you"? Imagine if you'd asked if you asked if they had cash upgrades and they replied with "done" and "I can't tell you".
I tend to agree with OPs read of the situation. My assumption would be that I had a free upgrade, not that for reasons unknown the staff member was refusing to tell me how much I'd been charged for a product I hadn't agreed to buy. So I'd probably also take my seat thinking "Bonus, an op-up".
OP, I'd go ask them to restore the miles. You already have "no" so what do you have to lose?
#21




Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Economy, mostly :(
Programs: Skywards Gold
Posts: 7,791
I find the cryptic answer to the question of miles cost to be really odd. OP asked how much it cost. If the employee had given him a straight answer there wouldn't have been an issue here. OP isn't obliged to know how many miles it costs by checking up front and his failure to do so is pretty much irrelevant. The employee should have answered with "yes, an upgrade is possible and will cost X miles, would you like me to proceed?" At the very least they should have answered the "what did this cost?" with a simple "x miles". The answer given makes it sound like OP has been given some sort of deal, or that the employee is being playful in providing some sort of extra.
If I went into a store and, having just handed over my card to pay for my TV, I enquired if they had a service package, I'd be pretty narked if they replied with "done!!!" and when I asked what they'd charged my card they told me "I can't tell you, ho ho ho". I mean really. These miles cost a packet to buy, what kind of answer is "I can't tell you"? Imagine if you'd asked if you asked if they had cash upgrades and they replied with "done" and "I can't tell you".
I tend to agree with OPs read of the situation. My assumption would be that I had a free upgrade, not that for reasons unknown the staff member was refusing to tell me how much I'd been charged for a product I hadn't agreed to buy. So I'd probably also take my seat thinking "Bonus, an op-up".
OP, I'd go ask them to restore the miles. You already have "no" so what do you have to lose?
If I went into a store and, having just handed over my card to pay for my TV, I enquired if they had a service package, I'd be pretty narked if they replied with "done!!!" and when I asked what they'd charged my card they told me "I can't tell you, ho ho ho". I mean really. These miles cost a packet to buy, what kind of answer is "I can't tell you"? Imagine if you'd asked if you asked if they had cash upgrades and they replied with "done" and "I can't tell you".
I tend to agree with OPs read of the situation. My assumption would be that I had a free upgrade, not that for reasons unknown the staff member was refusing to tell me how much I'd been charged for a product I hadn't agreed to buy. So I'd probably also take my seat thinking "Bonus, an op-up".
OP, I'd go ask them to restore the miles. You already have "no" so what do you have to lose?
#22
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 497
I really think this is one to take further. They might restore some of the miles. My thinking is that OP could argue he WAS prepared to purchase the upgrade if the cost was similar to his usual upgrades. It wouldn't be unreasonable to argue that such a cost would represent value to OP and was the price the OP was prepared to pay.
Really, OP, I would write a polite letter. Don't expect something back, but at very least they might have a word with their staff on protocol (it sounds like this is more than a one-off).
#23



Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: AU, UG, NG, ET, others
Programs: EK (plat), ET, VA, QF
Posts: 607
I cannot fathom why the OP would not have done the homework as to what the miles cost might be. To me, that is the logical first step. The OP was certainly aware of the miles needed to purchase the future award flight. Why not this one?
To me, the answer is obvious. The OP was actually wanting an op-up and didn't want any pre-allocated miles involved, but didn't articulate that. The operator's unusual response played into the OP's hope that they HAD just received an op-up. At that point the OP should have sought clarification of how the upgrade was processed, but didn't.
Why would the OP have enquired about a miles upgrade if they didn't intend spending any of the miles purchased for another purpose?
There is fault on both sides here, a lack of clear communication. The OP is not blame-free, and I personally don't think compensation is appropriate.
To me, the answer is obvious. The OP was actually wanting an op-up and didn't want any pre-allocated miles involved, but didn't articulate that. The operator's unusual response played into the OP's hope that they HAD just received an op-up. At that point the OP should have sought clarification of how the upgrade was processed, but didn't.
Why would the OP have enquired about a miles upgrade if they didn't intend spending any of the miles purchased for another purpose?
There is fault on both sides here, a lack of clear communication. The OP is not blame-free, and I personally don't think compensation is appropriate.
Last edited by BadoRas; Nov 21, 2019 at 6:49 am
#24
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 497
People replying seem to be confusing the question at hand ("was the agent in error giving an upgrade without confirming price and then refusing to inform whether a fee was paid/what price was paid?") with another: "could OP have avoided this outcome?" That second question plays no part in the first as the agent should have ZERO expectations of the OP having done research. As it is the agent executed a transaction unrequested. It is, by definition, an unrequested transaction because one party was not informed of half of the transaction's details. The transaction REQUIRES the agreement of price for goods/service where the seller knows these. The price wasn't agreed, and a) the agent transacted before the buyer could consent and b) then refused to inform the buyer of price. This sort of activity is legally frowned on e.g. when car-repairs are executed without specific agreement on cost. It's not a stretch to say that OP wouldn't find the price reasonable evidenced by two arguments a) previous upgrade costs and b) saving miles for a specific goal.
To me, the answer is obvious. The OP was actually wanting an op-up. He didn't want any of his pre-allocated miles involved, but didn't articulate that. The operator's unusual response played into his hope that he HAD just received an op-up. At that point he should have sought clarification of how the upgrade was processed. He didn't.
Why would he have enquired about a miles upgrade if he didn't intend spending any of the miles he had purchased for another purpose?
What actually occurred is OP got an upgrade gratis and had miles taken unauthorised from his account. I think it would be pointless to take that line, but the airline really screwed up here. Let's remember this isn't trinkets. This was an unauthorised transaction for miles that cost $2000. The flippant nature of the agent is poor in this situation. His actual (internal) response to realising that the customer had no idea they'd just unwittingly spent $2000, and perhaps wouldn't have wanted to, should have been "Fuuuuuuck", not a playful smile and a cryptic answer.
#25



Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: AU, UG, NG, ET, others
Programs: EK (plat), ET, VA, QF
Posts: 607
Absolutely I agree the agent acted inappropriately and his actions and responses were unacceptable.
My point is that the OP also contributed to the situation. To repeat, considering that he had bought the requisite miles for a future award flight and had already purchased the maximum miles possible, why on earth would he risk his miles by asking if a miles upgrade was possible?
The OP is platinum, he has been around the traps for a while and no doubt has a grasp of how upgrades work, despite his not thinking to look up the miles required. So again, I believe all this points to him approaching the agent wanting an op-up, and he enquired in the usual way people do when hoping for one.
The agent's response was unprofessional and unacceptable and worthy of reprimand. I agree with all the points you make in your tome.
But it takes two to tango. My point was that BOTH parties are at fault.
My point is that the OP also contributed to the situation. To repeat, considering that he had bought the requisite miles for a future award flight and had already purchased the maximum miles possible, why on earth would he risk his miles by asking if a miles upgrade was possible?
The OP is platinum, he has been around the traps for a while and no doubt has a grasp of how upgrades work, despite his not thinking to look up the miles required. So again, I believe all this points to him approaching the agent wanting an op-up, and he enquired in the usual way people do when hoping for one.
The agent's response was unprofessional and unacceptable and worthy of reprimand. I agree with all the points you make in your tome.
But it takes two to tango. My point was that BOTH parties are at fault.
Last edited by BadoRas; Nov 20, 2019 at 6:10 am

