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-   Emirates | Skywards (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/emirates-skywards-490/)
-   -   Is Emirates a financial scam? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/emirates-skywards/1627541-emirates-financial-scam.html)

aljubouri Nov 21, 2014 7:32 pm

I agree to what DMF and MM said coz it was my original point, more and more people are changing over to EK frm their usual carrier for the extra comfortable services EK provides.
Last few flights from LGW to DXB a are all packed up in J. however, I used to see fee empty J seats from DXB to HKG.. Well, not anymore and wonder why!!

pomkiwi Nov 22, 2014 9:22 am


Originally Posted by Kiwi Flyer (Post 23875155)
I also wonder how tag flights are treated in the utilisation stats. For example some A380 pax on AKL-SYD/MEL/BNE will continue to DXB and thus 2 legs in under 24 hours.

Some of us carry on to LHR - make that 3 sectors in the 24 hours :)

Kiwi Flyer Nov 22, 2014 11:01 am


Originally Posted by pomkiwi (Post 23881129)
Some of us carry on to LHR - make that 3 sectors in the 24 hours :)

Yes but that is two flight numbers so fair enough to count as two.

ioto1902 Nov 22, 2014 3:09 pm

the scam may not be where we think
 
I begin to think that the scam is this thread itself.
OP doesn't care about the topic. He just wants to break the record for viewer's number :p
He just fuels the fire from time to time.
Otherwise, I can't explain why he doesn't come up with factual counter-arguments ...

EK's flying A388 out of CDG 20 times per week. Would AF not lobby the french government, EK would be flying 3 times daily.
One flight used to be B77W six months ago => indeed, they are not flying A388 just for the prestige.
All flights are almost full => they are not packed with people visiting families and friends in the UAE (45.000 monthly ?!?).

EK's business model is definitively based on hub => obvious when you see very very few people heading to passport control at arrival, and when you see all those people literally sleeping (not napping) in the lounges.

Btw, some low-cost carriers are considering LH legs. Dangerous to underestimate this as a gag.

I'm not a EK fanatic. I choose EK for the same reasons as most FT here : service, convenience and price. The day I find better, I won't hesitate to change.

678flyer Nov 23, 2014 10:44 am

I don't know about other sectors but getting a seat on the LON-DXB sector in Y (and many times J) is very difficult if trying just a week out. This is after having 6xA380 services daily with another 2xB77W; so about 3700 seats every day.

Ahmed777 Nov 23, 2014 11:34 am

Same here ex-RSA.

They are filling 6 777's a day. A 7th is on its way...

EK have clearly taken over the South African market. Not even SAA fills as many passengers on a direct JNB-LHR than EK does on JNB-DXB-LHR.

missingmanager Nov 23, 2014 2:02 pm

I am no air travel analyst, neither do I have any experience as a consultant on these matters but I cannot imagine doing any such analysis without giving the history and geography thorough consideration. When I look at Emirates' operations in England I look at the UK's historic ties (not always honourable) with the Indian sub-continent, large parts of Africa and places such as Hong Kong, Malaysia and Singapore. There is an increasing number of people with the time and money to travel and many citizens of this country have family ties in these places. There is much travel to and fro as a result of this for holidays and family gatherings. It is increasingly common that our young people travel for "gap years" and I meet many Australians and New Zealanders who spend some time here before returning home, if they ever do. Leisure traffic like this is a significant addition to the demand for seats. The problem is that these destinations are widely spread and that there are too few passengers to fill aircraft going from different points in England to each destination. I have friends of Gujarati origin who travel there from time to time but, despite what Boeing might wish, there is no chance of fleets of Dreamliners flying to Ahmedabad from English regional airports but 2 or 3 people on each of the many flights to Dubai will help to fill Emirates' 10 weekly flights to AMD. Do something similar for all the other destinations worldwide and you can still fill large planes from here. Other airlines have tried direct flights from regional airports and then closed many of the routes: I used to be able to fly non-stop from MAN to Singapore and to Kuala Lumpur and From LBA to Islamabad, for example, but no longer. That model does not seem to work here.

England is not a large country, a bit smaller than Arkansas or Alabama in the US, but the population is closer to that of Texas and California combined. Within 90 minutes drive of my house I can be at 3 airports with direct flights to Dubai (MAN, NCL and BHX) London with 2 route options is 2 hours away by train and Glasgow (not in England, I know!) not much more. A very large percentage of the population is in easy reach of one of these airports which together have about 16 flights to Dubai each day and then onward with a single connection. Ahmed777 says that EK has taken over the South African market. You could make a case for saying that EK is also the local long haul operator for many parts of the UK.

Is the USA so different, as the OP seems to suggest? I know that there is not the same American Diaspora but many people who live and work in the USA have origins elsewhere. Surely it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that there are sufficient passengers to fill aircraft to Dubai, even if, as we are assured," most American businessmen would not use them". Perhaps business travellers from elsewhere going to the US might. If Emirates test the market and it works for them then good luck to them. Their management seems to me to have a good track record of identifying a market and then developing it gradually with larger aircraft and more frequent flights. I bet they are glad they didn't ask the OP for analysis and advice when they started!

edy4eva Nov 23, 2014 2:38 pm


Originally Posted by missingmanager (Post 23886167)
Other airlines have tried direct flights from regional airports and then closed many of the routes.....LBA to Islamabad, for example, but no longer. That model does not seem to work here.

Note to iahphx. The above is an example of long and thin routes that you keep referring to, wrongly assuming EK follow the same model.

Havoc10G Nov 23, 2014 10:13 pm

Is Emirates a financial scam?
 
I think there is enough one sided evidence here to answer the question with "No, it isn't a scam" and then close the thread!

eshaq786 Nov 24, 2014 3:09 am


Originally Posted by Havoc10G (Post 23887864)
I think there is enough one sided evidence here to answer the question with "No, it isn't a scam" and then close the thread!

Close it? Not until we hit the big 10k views lol

ioto1902 Nov 24, 2014 2:47 pm

Guys, play a little bit with this :
http://www.airbus.com/aircraftfamili...y/performance/
and you will realize that UAE is really where you can reach any country of the world (apart from some tiny islands of the Pacific). Of course, load factor, configuration will impact range, but, UAE's huge geographical advantage is proven.

In fact, we are witnessing the two main aircraft manufacturers' philosophies colliding : Airbus' hub concept and Boeing's point to point concept.
We may be tempted conclude that Airbus' concept, when pushed to the extreme, is the winner ...
Now, all we need is a competitor to EK/EY/GF. Tehran seems also well situated :p

Havoc10G Nov 25, 2014 12:30 am

Is Emirates a financial scam?
 
Makes sense otherwise Airbus would never have built the a380 in the first place or for that matter Boeing the 747. I don't think they would have met at the first feasibility study meeting and said "right, the strategy here is to sell this only to airlines running a financial scam as it just won't be economical otherwise!"

TRAVELSIG Nov 25, 2014 1:59 am


Originally Posted by eshaq786 (Post 23888448)
Close it? Not until we hit the big 10k views lol

10K + views now! Can be closed safely :)

Interestingly the OP never did come back with any data.

LE4603 Nov 25, 2014 4:22 am


Originally Posted by Havoc10G (Post 23893858)
Makes sense otherwise Airbus would never have built the a380 in the first place or for that matter Boeing the 747. I don't think they would have met at the first feasibility study meeting and said "right, the strategy here is to sell this only to airlines running a financial scam as it just won't be economical otherwise!"

Actually I think you are wrong, this sounds like proof that they are in the scam too! This might be bigger than the OP first thought!!!

I've stuck on my tinfoil hat while writing this, just in case this goes right to the top....;)

subject2load Nov 25, 2014 7:06 am


Originally Posted by ioto1902 (Post 23891563)

.................................................. .............

..........................
Now, all we need is a competitor to EK/EY/GF. Tehran seems also well situated :p

Indeed it does.

And - as we all know - Tehran never ceases in its tireless quest to attract leisure & business travellers, stopover traffic, and of course world-class sporting events.
:)


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