Joe_EK

I don't know if it is a question that has come up in previous threads but I have been wondering what percentage of passengers fly paid F (I guess for that matter, paid J as well)?

Particularly with EK, my experience ex JNB is that F fares are (I know it is a relative concept) mindbogglingly expensive (rarely under US$7000- $US8000).

I suppose CEO's and a segment of the wealthy who just can't quite break into Private Jet territory) fall into the F segment. I also understand certain markets may exhibit a bias as well (certain high GDP per capita Gulf states and tax havens for instance). But I just can't see 50+ F seats a day being filled out of a lot of markets.

Personally, I find the marginal utility increase of an F seat over a J seat (deeply reclining aside), very difficuilt to justify relative to the price difference (atleast ex JNB).

I understand J to an extent, as from experience, many companies (particular larger ones) have J friendly policies. J is also an easier cabin to get into for individuals as from time to time, companion fares and sales make it ''attainable.''

J relative to Y is atleast at face value, a significant jump in terms of both Hard and Soft Product

Would appreciate any insights from anyone who know's a bit more.

m3red

I fly paid j with work and most of the time for personal reasons. I am 6 foot 2 so economy is a ...... for pus 4 hours. I value no queues at check in immigration and space on the plane. I can't justify f but op ups are gratefully received!

Paid f is the privilege of the very rich or senior execs

Dave Noble

I purchase 1st class generally for my Europe trips and sometimes for my trans-tasman trips and Asia trips.

I find 1st class a fair bit more pleasant than business and def like it for 24 hours of travelling and on the trans-tasman routes the price difference between 1st and business is often very little when taking into account that the 1st class ticket includes the chauffeur service

On Singapore to Melbourne, for example, the difference in price between the 12 month validity business and the 1st class fare is about $700 r/t and on my Europe to Australia journey a difference of $1700 return so the difference in price is not that bad

eightblack

I think its very much dependent on the routes you fly. For example, next week out of SIN, the EK A class fare is approx SGD$5000 (ie SIN-MEL-SIN), whereas on QF/SQ, this is what they charge for a Business fare. It's a no brainer for me - fly F on EK or fly J on QF or SQ. (Incidentally, QF want SGD$7900 for F for the same dates next week and SQ want SGD$7700)

It becomes even better if you include a hop across to NZ. I've had a client project in Auckland all year (and this will probably run another year). On EK, I can buy a SIN-MEL-AKL-MEL-SIN A class fare all in for SGD$5300 (incl taxes). Add chauffeur drive and it becomes good value in my mind.

I've done this 12 times this year alone...(ie once a month)

However, the F fares ex SIN say to Europe or the US aren't great value - and to be honest, EK may not be my first preference.

ukdoctor

I mostly fly J or more recently Y. All my trips are personal and I have to pay for every single trip. I budget a certain amount for my personal travel in J every year and once I exceed it its down to Y for the rest of the year.However if I have done so much J travelling in a particular year the chances are that I would easily have enough miles to upgrade key routes for the rest of the year.


F is only by op ups / using miles.

The ticket choice also depends on how heavy my workload has been. I wouldnt want to fly on a Europe to Dubai day flight in Y if I have been working all night.On the other hand if I have had enough rest Y is fine for the flight to DXB ( if its a day flight)

For overnight flights J is preferred. I either book a J ticket or use miles for the upgrade.

Emirates202

I used to almost always fly J with some F, which i paid for. For the past year I've been buying F more often. I prefer it now as its just better. At least I think so .
I think i will keep buying F. I find that EK has a solid F product, and since it has yet to disappoint me, I will stick with it.
Most of these are business trips, so its technically out of my pocket as I own my companies, but I also actually pay for F out of my pocket for personal trips as well.

-ek202

ung1

I actually think J is often a waste of money, but F (unless the fare is over 2x the J fare) provides good value.

Reason being that unless I have a fully flat bed, and I plan to sleep on the flight, all I'm getting is a fancier meal, shorter queues and a little more space (admittedly, if I don't have status on the airline, there is some value vs. Y).

F, however, feels more like a treat. Good service, lots of space and comfort, small and private cabin, the kind of food I wouldn't eat every day, vintage champagne.

Fare wise, what often happens is that F is 30-60% more than J, where I feel it makes sense to spend that, especially if J is 3-4x the Y fare.

As for the OP - not sure you mean what percentage of those in F pay for it, or what percentage of all passengers/ the world's population pays for F - but it is true that as a percentage, more people pay for their own tickets in F than in J.

SingaporeJoe

I'd like to echo what eightblack says about the pricing differences. On my regular routes, the price difference between first and business is quite small. I pay a lot of my flights from my own pocket in which case I have no difficulties justifying an occassional first class flight to the purchasing department. I also use the first-economy combination quite a lot. Say, SIN-MEL is a night flight but MEL-SIN is a day flight. So, book first for the night flight and economy for the day flight. I don't think very highly of the B777 business class and the A380 business class is just terrible so much won't be missed by skipping that. For the record, I am well over 190cm so I can't say I particularly enjoy economy but I still prefer first-economy over business-business on that route.

m3red

I'd much rather go business business than one leg in economy.

When I pay I can't justify f but can j as to me there is a big difference whereas j to f I don't see it so much. Also when flying with work you have to take the cheapest option f is almost always more expensive than j and now we have to fly economy sometimes too!

I m happy to fly y for day flights like man dxb but if i take the night one it's j all the way. Lets face it is is very expensive and we are all privileged to be regular travellers in whatever class....

Joe_EK

@ ung1, I suppose I am looking for answers to both questions. @m3red, I agree, we are indeed privileged. I appreciate all the responses. I have my first F flights (2 segments) coming up soon. I hope I will be able to better understand the difference and value then. I will admit, I only managed to buy F because it priced the same as J on a mixed class ticket due to what I presume was some kind of pricing anomaly.

SingaporeJoe

My guess would be that the majority of travelers would choose as you do. For me, it really depends on the route and schedules. On routes other than SIN-MEL-SIN I also might choose differently depending in the prices and schedules.

The question is similar the bachelor's breakfast dilemma: you have two slices of bread in your fridge but only enough butter for one slice. Do you put all the butter on one slice and eat the other without any, or do you try to spread the butter thinly on both slices so that there will be little bit on both but not quite enough to substantially improve the taste?

rathin100

I'm not a CEO but a regional COO, so you get the datapoint:

I only ever fly paid J on work or leisure on trips greater than 3 hours ( less than 3 hours I don't really care but do fly J if it's not more than 50 percent or so of the Y fare)

if I fly paid F it will be because the price difference is not that much ( 700 US dollars for a LH sector is ok for me) or because J is full, as I will NEVER fly Y Long haul ever again for financial reasons....( A decision I took when I turned 30 and have kept to since, and it's 13 years and counting)

I'm picky about the airline when I spend money ( or miles ) to fly F and would never go F for miles or money on BA, TG, QF, JJ, CA or any US airline. I'd pay ( a bit) more happily on EK, LH, LX, CX and SQ. I would consider it on AI, 9W, JL, NH, OZ, MH. Come to think of it, there aren't that many worthwhile F offerings nowadays.

SingaporeJoe

I tend to agree on that. Even with EK before the suites I didn't think very highly of F. However, the suites are a game changing product and make me rather fly first-economy than business-business.

BA (maybe others, too) have a companion's seat which, uncomfortable as it is, is nice for having a dinner with one's traveling companion when not flying alone. Would be nice to have something similar on EK suites.

Joe_EK

Not directly on topic, but it would be interesting to get an idea of the age spread of Flyertalk Posters.

For example, I am 24, and I suspect that people around my age range are in the minority around these parts.

rathin100

I never fly F in company. Mrs rathin100 has socialist leanngs , is happy in premium Y , so we end up in J as a compromise... ( she IS getting a bit fond of BA. Upper deck, i notice. . ). With the bit on the side, its a waste of money, best spend in on a suite with a jacuzzi etc.... With colleagues, J with company is quite sociable, though I have upgraded to F to escape the more unpleasant ones.