Expertflyer wrong on D class availability?
Dec 27, 2012 | 11:26 pm
#17
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: West Coast, USA
Programs: Skywards Platinum
Posts: 3,747
I already PM'ed ExpertFlyer Voice to see if they can let me know the reason for the discrepancy. Has anybody else here found out what the deal is?
Dec 28, 2012 | 12:31 am
#18
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: West Coast, USA
Programs: Skywards Platinum
Posts: 3,747
Just as a follow-up, I called the EK service center and they are telling me that FLEX F awards come out of the same Z bucket as SAVER F awards. Does that sound correct? ExpertFlyer shows FLEX F awards coming out of the A bucket.
As a further datapoint, the flight is JFK-DXB-MLE, and ExpertFlyer is showing the DXB-MLE EK652 as O=0 (Business FLEX award), yet at EK.com, EK652 is showing as having FLEX Business award seats available.
As a further datapoint, the flight is JFK-DXB-MLE, and ExpertFlyer is showing the DXB-MLE EK652 as O=0 (Business FLEX award), yet at EK.com, EK652 is showing as having FLEX Business award seats available.
Last edited by whimike; Dec 28, 2012 at 12:39 am
Dec 28, 2012 | 8:51 am
#20
Company Representative - ExpertFlyer
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,924
I am trying to book an F award for my parents, JFK-DXB on the 15th of February. ExpertFlyer is showing A=4 for this date on the 11 PM flight (EK202). However, EK.com is showing no availability at all. I thought Flex F Awards come out of discounted F inventory (A bucket) and there is definitely A bucket available on the flight.
I already PM'ed ExpertFlyer Voice to see if they can let me know the reason for the discrepancy. Has anybody else here found out what the deal is?
I already PM'ed ExpertFlyer Voice to see if they can let me know the reason for the discrepancy. Has anybody else here found out what the deal is?
Just as a follow-up, I called the EK service center and they are telling me that FLEX F awards come out of the same Z bucket as SAVER F awards. Does that sound correct? ExpertFlyer shows FLEX F awards coming out of the A bucket.
As a further datapoint, the flight is JFK-DXB-MLE, and ExpertFlyer is showing the DXB-MLE EK652 as O=0 (Business FLEX award), yet at EK.com, EK652 is showing as having FLEX Business award seats available.
As a further datapoint, the flight is JFK-DXB-MLE, and ExpertFlyer is showing the DXB-MLE EK652 as O=0 (Business FLEX award), yet at EK.com, EK652 is showing as having FLEX Business award seats available.
The problem looks to be that you were searching each segment separately when you should have been searching for them together. EK uses married segment logic for awards so you need to search for the entire trip. When you do you'll see that the results are correct:
Results from ExpertFlyer.com
Code:
Awards & Upgrades Search
Departing JFK on 02/15/13 10:00 PM for MLE
Flying EK on booking class A O
Connecting at DXB
Frequency
Flight Stops Depart Arrive Aircraft Reliability Class Description Code Seats
1 Connection
EK 202 0 JFK DXB 388 Daily First - Flex Award A 0
02/15/13 11:00 PM 02/16/13 8:30 PM 82% / 19m Business - Flex Award O 7
EK 652 0 DXB MLE 772 Su,M,Th,F First - Flex Award A 0
02/17/13 9:35 AM 02/17/13 2:50 PM 69% / 23m Business - Flex Award O 4
Dec 28, 2012 | 1:12 pm
#21
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: West Coast, USA
Programs: Skywards Platinum
Posts: 3,747
The problem looks to be that you were searching each segment separately when you should have been searching for them together. EK uses married segment logic for awards so you need to search for the entire trip. When you do you'll see that the results are correct:
Results from ExpertFlyer.com
Results from ExpertFlyer.com
Code:
Awards & Upgrades Search
Departing JFK on 02/15/13 10:00 PM for MLE
Flying EK on booking class A O
Connecting at DXB
Frequency
Flight Stops Depart Arrive Aircraft Reliability Class Description Code Seats
1 Connection
EK 202 0 JFK DXB 388 Daily First - Flex Award A 0
02/15/13 11:00 PM 02/16/13 8:30 PM 82% / 19m Business - Flex Award O 7
EK 652 0 DXB MLE 772 Su,M,Th,F First - Flex Award A 0
02/17/13 9:35 AM 02/17/13 2:50 PM 69% / 23m Business - Flex Award O 4
EF shows:
JFK to DXB on 02/15/13 5:00 PM
Flying EK on booking class(es) A Z O D
Expanded
EK 202 JFK 11:00p → DXB 8:30p
A4 O7
Stops: 0
Aircraft: 388
Frequency: Daily
Reliability: 80% / 26m
Flight Details · Seat Map · Create Alert
And EK.com shows:
2. 23:00 on Fri 15 Feb, 2013
DEPARTING15 FEB 13 New York, United States to Dubai, United Arab Emirates
Flight
Depart / Arrive
Time
Airport
Duration / Aircraft
Economy
Business
First
EK202
Fri
15 Feb 13
23:00 John F Kennedy International Airport (JFK) 12hr 30min
Airbus A380-800 Available
Available
Unavailable
Sat
16 Feb 13
20:30 Dubai International Airport (DXB) Skywards Flex Reward Skywards Flex Reward
Last edited by whimike; Dec 28, 2012 at 1:20 pm
Dec 28, 2012 | 2:41 pm
#22
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: LON
Programs: BA, TK, EK
Posts: 944
Very interesting. EK.com, ITA and EF all agree that there is A inventory available should one wish to purchase a revenue ticket.
I tried a one-way reward search for your date - that doesn't work either.
So do first class Flex rewards no longer book into A? Or are we seeing the first signs of a further restriction on reward bookings?
I tried a one-way reward search for your date - that doesn't work either.
So do first class Flex rewards no longer book into A? Or are we seeing the first signs of a further restriction on reward bookings?
Dec 28, 2012 | 5:29 pm
#23
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: West Coast, USA
Programs: Skywards Platinum
Posts: 3,747
The problem looks to be that you were searching each segment separately when you should have been searching for them together. EK uses married segment logic for awards so you need to search for the entire trip. When you do you'll see that the results are correct:
Results from ExpertFlyer.com
Results from ExpertFlyer.com
Code:
Awards & Upgrades Search
Departing JFK on 02/15/13 10:00 PM for MLE
Flying EK on booking class A O
Connecting at DXB
Frequency
Flight Stops Depart Arrive Aircraft Reliability Class Description Code Seats
1 Connection
EK 202 0 JFK DXB 388 Daily First - Flex Award A 0
02/15/13 11:00 PM 02/16/13 8:30 PM 82% / 19m Business - Flex Award O 7
EK 652 0 DXB MLE 772 Su,M,Th,F First - Flex Award A 0
02/17/13 9:35 AM 02/17/13 2:50 PM 69% / 23m Business - Flex Award O 4
1 Connections
EK 202 0 JFK
02/15/13
11:00 PM DXB
02/16/13
8:30 PM 388
Daily
80% / 26m
First - Flex Award A 4
Business - Flex Award O 0
Economy - Flex Award W 9
Economy - Partner Award X 9
EK 658 0 DXB
02/17/13
3:15 AM MLE
02/17/13
8:20 AM 77W
Su,Th,F
48% / 15m
Business - Flex Award O 0
Economy - Flex Award W 9
Economy - Partner Award X 9
Am I using EF incorrectly? I can't bring up the results you are bringing up.
Dec 28, 2012 | 5:50 pm
#24
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: LON
Programs: BA, TK, EK
Posts: 944
-Specify classes A and O only. If you request Z,D,X or N also, you lose the ability to choose a connection point.
-Specify DXB as a connection point.
-Optionally, specify 10PM as departure time.
Married segment logic is what is zeroing A class on the JFK-DXB-MLE itinerary. It does not explain why you are unable to book a Flex First reward JFK-DXB as a one-way or return itinerary.
Dec 28, 2012 | 6:52 pm
#25
Company Representative - ExpertFlyer
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,924
I wanted to wait until I get back to my computer as I didn't recall these flights, even with married segment logic, not having A bucket. I just did an award search on EF with JFK and origin and MLE and destination, and this is what I get:
1 Connections
EK 202 0 JFK
02/15/13
11:00 PM DXB
02/16/13
8:30 PM 388
Daily
80% / 26m
First - Flex Award A 4
Business - Flex Award O 0
Economy - Flex Award W 9
Economy - Partner Award X 9
EK 658 0 DXB
02/17/13
3:15 AM MLE
02/17/13
8:20 AM 77W
Su,Th,F
48% / 15m
Business - Flex Award O 0
Economy - Flex Award W 9
Economy - Partner Award X 9
Am I using EF incorrectly? I can't bring up the results you are bringing up.
1 Connections
EK 202 0 JFK
02/15/13
11:00 PM DXB
02/16/13
8:30 PM 388
Daily
80% / 26m
First - Flex Award A 4
Business - Flex Award O 0
Economy - Flex Award W 9
Economy - Partner Award X 9
EK 658 0 DXB
02/17/13
3:15 AM MLE
02/17/13
8:20 AM 77W
Su,Th,F
48% / 15m
Business - Flex Award O 0
Economy - Flex Award W 9
Economy - Partner Award X 9
Am I using EF incorrectly? I can't bring up the results you are bringing up.
Dec 28, 2012 | 7:17 pm
#26
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: West Coast, USA
Programs: Skywards Platinum
Posts: 3,747
With that pairing A=4 but of course there is no F award availability on EK.com.
Any ideas why?
Dec 28, 2012 | 7:18 pm
#27
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: West Coast, USA
Programs: Skywards Platinum
Posts: 3,747
You can obtain these results as follows:
-Specify classes A and O only. If you request Z,D,X or N also, you lose the ability to choose a connection point.
-Specify DXB as a connection point.
-Optionally, specify 10PM as departure time.
Married segment logic is what is zeroing A class on the JFK-DXB-MLE itinerary. It does not explain why you are unable to book a Flex First reward JFK-DXB as a one-way or return itinerary.
-Specify classes A and O only. If you request Z,D,X or N also, you lose the ability to choose a connection point.
-Specify DXB as a connection point.
-Optionally, specify 10PM as departure time.
Married segment logic is what is zeroing A class on the JFK-DXB-MLE itinerary. It does not explain why you are unable to book a Flex First reward JFK-DXB as a one-way or return itinerary.
Dec 28, 2012 | 7:55 pm
#28
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: LON
Programs: BA, TK, EK
Posts: 944
I think we are obtaining the same results. Those instructions were necessary to show the 0935 connection, which I thought you were looking for.
EK202 has A=4 when connecting to EK658 (0315).
EK202 has A=0 when connecting to EK652 (0935).
As a further datapoint, EK202 shows A=4 for an itinerary to DXB only. This is correct as EK.com will sell a JFK-DXB-JFK revenue ticket (on EK202) for $15k, which is an A fare.
What we have here seems to be some process whereby access to A inventory for reward tickets is being limited.
EK202 has A=4 when connecting to EK658 (0315).
EK202 has A=0 when connecting to EK652 (0935).
As a further datapoint, EK202 shows A=4 for an itinerary to DXB only. This is correct as EK.com will sell a JFK-DXB-JFK revenue ticket (on EK202) for $15k, which is an A fare.
What we have here seems to be some process whereby access to A inventory for reward tickets is being limited.
Dec 28, 2012 | 8:41 pm
#29
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: West Coast, USA
Programs: Skywards Platinum
Posts: 3,747
I think we are obtaining the same results. Those instructions were necessary to show the 0935 connection, which I thought you were looking for.
EK202 has A=4 when connecting to EK658 (0315).
EK202 has A=0 when connecting to EK652 (0935).
As a further datapoint, EK202 shows A=4 for an itinerary to DXB only. This is correct as EK.com will sell a JFK-DXB-JFK revenue ticket (on EK202) for $15k, which is an A fare.
What we have here seems to be some process whereby access to A inventory for reward tickets is being limited.
EK202 has A=4 when connecting to EK658 (0315).
EK202 has A=0 when connecting to EK652 (0935).
As a further datapoint, EK202 shows A=4 for an itinerary to DXB only. This is correct as EK.com will sell a JFK-DXB-JFK revenue ticket (on EK202) for $15k, which is an A fare.
What we have here seems to be some process whereby access to A inventory for reward tickets is being limited.
If they do come out of A bucket then I wonder what is necessary to decode how/where/when seats will be available.
EK202 on that date is relatively empty in F so I am not sure why they are blocking the redemption inventory.
Dec 29, 2012 | 11:42 am
#30
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: LON
Programs: BA, TK, EK
Posts: 944
I have tried searching for Flex First rewards from DUB - including via the calendar award search function, which incidentally I had never seen before.
There is no Flex First availability on dates that do not have Saver First (Z) availability, but do have plenty of revenue A available.
I think EK has removed the ability to book a Flex award in A inventory. It is still possible to book a Flex award (with increased maximum stay and free rebooking) by selecting the 'Flex' option when searching for awards, however these Flex awards are available only on dates when Z is available.
It seems the information the phone agent gave whimike is correct, all First awards now book into Z.
I'm not sure whether this is a temporary or permanent 'enhancement'...
There is no Flex First availability on dates that do not have Saver First (Z) availability, but do have plenty of revenue A available.
I think EK has removed the ability to book a Flex award in A inventory. It is still possible to book a Flex award (with increased maximum stay and free rebooking) by selecting the 'Flex' option when searching for awards, however these Flex awards are available only on dates when Z is available.
It seems the information the phone agent gave whimike is correct, all First awards now book into Z.
I'm not sure whether this is a temporary or permanent 'enhancement'...
Last edited by father_ted; Dec 29, 2012 at 1:26 pm Reason: changed incorrect information.