Dovster

In December have my fifth flight this year in LY Biz Class. I am allowed to check two bags and to carry a third (plus a personal item) with me. Of course, if I do, I can forget about taking the train to/from the airport.

For a start, let me explain that I am a three hour drive from TLV. As a kibbutnik, I don't own my own car. A taxi would cost me 800 shekels in each direction. Renting a car would wind up costing me more. Only rarely, and with special permission, can I get a kibbutz car for longer than 6 days. I do have the option of having someone drive me to the airport (a six hour r/t) and then picking me up when I return, but that is a lot to ask of a friend.

Okay, that is not the railways' fault. I am the one who chose to live where I do. It is a 45 minute drive to Nahariya and I would never have a problem getting someone to take me there and back. When I get there, however, I run into two problems -- there are no luggage carts and, on almost all trains, there are no ramps for luggage. As I only have two arms, I am restricted to two bags -- and even these are difficult to take up and down the stairs to the train and in it.

In some ways, however, I am more fortunate than others. These same trains have numerous stops along the way and if you are southbound, after Kiryat Motzkin there is usually no way that you will find a seat until you reach Merkaz Tel Aviv (and your luggage will greatly complicate the problem). On the way back, if you want to get off the train after Merkaz Tel Aviv but before Motzkin, you are not going to be able to get your luggage to the door (unless you leave it there for the entire trip, unwatched, and sit elsewhere.

When you get to TLV, there are no carts, again, until you leave the train station. (Upon the return trip, you have to leave your cart at the entry to the station.)

I have done this many times. I often want to take two large suitcases with me for various reasons -- having a lengthy trip, with very different climates, being just one of them. Another is that at my age (I will be 71 in December) picking up a bag with 30 kilos to lift on/off the train is a lot harder than picking up two bags at 15 kilos each.

My train trips have always had a great number of people on it going to/from the airport and I suspect they would have even more if they scheduled airport-specific trains several times a day. The extra cost could be made up by either making tickets on these trains more expensive or by charging for each bag what they charge for a passenger.

Ideally, carts would be available to/from these trains and there would be ramps to roll your luggage up as well as sufficient luggage areas for them. Nor should they be locals -- I would suggest that they start at Nahariya (as they now do), have one stop in Haifa, one in Tel Aviv, and one at the airport before heading on to Beersheva.

If someone does not live in any of these cities, he can do what I do -- get somebody to take him to/from the closest station.

Ditto

What you describe is not unique to TLV, it is the same everywhere else I've been to and used the trains to get to/from the airport.

I doubt how much dedicated trains to the airport will be profitable or popular in Israel, especially if you limit it to only stop at 3 stations, if someone is willing to take a passenger to a train station in Tel Aviv, they might as well just take them to the airport...

How often do you go on a lengthy trip to different climates that requires you to pack so much?

Dovster

My absolute minimum trip is a week. When I flew to the States it was three weeks. Try flying TLV-JFK-LAS-ATL in November and see how many different climates you reach. For that matter, my December trip will include two days in Tel Aviv and 7 days in North Italy (Venice and two other cities) and I suspect I will have to pack much warmer clothing for Italy than I will need in Tel Aviv.

As far as Tel Aviv is concerned, from most places in the city you can get to the train station for less than 40 shekels but a taxi to the airport costs three times that.

Incidentally, the most idiotic part about this whole thing is the train station in Nahariya. It is the end of the line. Every other train station I have ever been, anywhere in the world, which is at the end of a line has a sidewalk where the tracks end so that you can walk from any platform to the exit.

Until recently, Nahariya had two platforms. The first let you off next to the exit but the second required you walking downstairs, or taking an elevator down, going under the first set of tracks, and then walking up/taking an elevator to the first platform.

This year they built a third platform. Of course, they didn't think of stopping the tracks two meters earlier and allowing you to walk from the second or third platform to the exit. Instead, you now have two platforms where you have to walk downstairs/upstairs (or take an elevator) to get to the train or from it.

As there is only one elevator to serve tracks 2 and 3, and the train usually has not only folks with baggage for their overseas trips but also a number of women with baby carriages and others who are unable to climb stairs, you often find yourself waiting for about 15 minutes before you can get into it.

Ditto

OK, so one out of those 5 trips required you to pack a lot of luggage, do you really need 30KG for 9 days?


Maybe, but you suggested the train doesn't stop anywhere else, so what if you live in Netanya, or Herzliya etc. ? now add the (more expensive) train ticket, multiply by the amount of passengers...

Is there no reason for why the tracks keep on going longer? e.g. they might park trains there?
Is there not an escalator at least? Most train stations wouldn't have more than a single elevator for each platform (pair)

Dovster

Even now the Nahariya-Ben Gurion train does not stop in Netanya or Herzliya. It runs Nahariya, Akko, then has three tops in the kiryot, four in Haifa, Benyamina, four in Tel Aviv and then Ben-Gurion.

At most, in needs Nahariya, one in the kiryot, one in Haifa, perhaps Benyamina, one in Tel Aviv and one in Ben-Gurion. All the other current stops would be just a few minutes away from these places.

Moreover, there are local trains which connect at these stops. A great many people who are on the Nahariya-Ben Gurion train are traveling (for example) Haganah-University and just grab whichever train comes first.

There is no reason at all. It goes to the very end of the station and no trains could part there. There is no escalator -- just the stairs and the elevator (and remember, you have to take two sets of stairs, or two elevators, one to get under the tracks and the platforms and the other to get back up.

Ditto

OK but if you create a "dedicated" airport train, then it would have to stop in all those stops, otherwise why would someone pay premium to go from Netanya to the Airport if there is no "premium" service in Netanya AND they also have to change trains.

Even here in the Netherlands where public transport is much more common, from most major cities to the airport you will have to take a train which is not luggage friendly, and there are no carts anywhere.

In places where there is a dedicated train to the airport (e.g. LHR, FCO) the trains would be better for luggage but still I haven't seen any carts at the stations, and of course it is just for a short journey of <30 minutes, not something that runs from the other end of the country.

Then it is just silly... they should at least put an escalator... (I assume they might have a valid reason to why the tracks continue after the station, perhaps someone might know if you ask the station personnel?)

entropy

Well, I think there is certainly a lot Israrail could do if they were interested in making a smooth experience for the airport, like fixing the schedule so its every 15-20 minutes rather than craziness like 20-20-50, or offering check-in/checked bag services like they do in HKG. (I say all this as someone who uses the train when I can, even if I'm schlepping a rollable bag).

Who knows what the new Jerusalem line will do to the LLBG train service, I'd expect the service to improve greatly in frequency but terminate in TLV rather than go to Nahariyya.

clubman

Why?

I'm not sure where you're based, but you said Nahariya is easy for you to get to, and renting a small car from Avis for example (who have a branch there) will cost you no more than 170 shekels a day. Even if you need to take it for two, that's nowhere near 800 shekels.

Dovster

For a start, look at the fine print and make certain that it includes both VAT and Super CDW. Then add in the airport charge I would be assessed if I pick up, or drop off, the rental at TLV as well as one-way fees. The cheapest I could find for a car big enough for two large suitcases was at Sixt, It cost $94.74 for two days including the one-way fee but not the Super CDW, the VAT, or the airport charge.

For the return, Sixt was offering the same car for $165.92, including the airport charge, but not the one-way charge, VAT, or the Super CDW. Together that is 998 NIS and I still have the unincluded fees to add on. The Super CDW, which Sixt posts no price for but says I will be told about at pick up, is usually very expensive and would probably put me over the 800 NIS in each direction.

I did think about renting the car for the entire trip, picking it up near me and dropping it off at the same place, thus avoiding both the one-way charge and the airport fee. I would pick it up in the morning of Dec 11 and return it on the morning of Dec 22. The cost would be $262.18 (plus VAT, and Super CDW) but I would also have to add in parking at the airport (a minimum of 30 NIS per day but if I have that much baggage I will need to park close in, where I can get a cart, and that will run 80 NIS per day).

FlyingELAL

There's also Amal Sherut service to/from Ben Gurion airport which can serve not only Haifa, but also Nahariyya and its vicinity, maybe they serve your kibbutz: http://www.iaa.gov.il/en-US/airports...ages/Taxi.aspx

Dovster

Thank you -- that may be very helpful for future trips. It does not serve my kibbutz but it will take me to Nahariya for 95 NIS (I don't know what extra charges there will be for my baggage). I will definitely call them before my next flight. (I am already set up for December. I managed to get a kibbutz car for the entire trip.)

sabbasolo

I manage with 3 heavy bags + 2 pieces of hand luggage - just move in short hops, keeping the "abandoned" bags in my view at all times. I have done it in Israel and overseas. I'm not saying it is fun. And it is the same from a rental car bus into the terminal to check-in, so don't travel with more than you can handle. For my children and grandchildren (who get most of the contents of the suitcases), I don't mind the extra effort.

In the USA you can also pay Hertz to drive you from the rental car return to the terminal - I used to get this service just for the cost of a tip, but now they have made it official and charge $20 or $25

Dovster

Every time I have rented a car in the US or in Europe (I have never done it in Israel) they were either in easy walking distance of the terminal and carts were available in both directions or there were free shuttle buses to/from the terminal and there were carts available at both ends.

Ditto

Is there something special about these dates in Israel? I checked a random date for a 1-way rental TLV-Nahariya via Avis Flying Blue (choosing Ivory) and got about 65€, checking for your date gets it up to 200€...

Nahariya-TLV seems to be at 116€.

So it looks like you might just be able to get a car for ~200€ or less on your future trips.

BTW this story reminds me of when I was flying to Israel arriving on Saturday morning, and someone was going through all the rental agency desks to see what is the cheapest they can get for a one-way rental to Beer Sheva, I suppose they figured it would be cheaper than a taxi

Dovster

Nothing special about those dates that I know of. I did not check Nahariya, I checked Kiryat Shemona, which is closer to where I live.

Also, if you are not Israeli you would not have to pay VAT but I would -- and that adds 17% on (and the 17% is added on the one-way fee, the airport fee, and the Super CDW as well as the basic cost).