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-   -   LY and AA shrink codeshare agreement (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/el-al-matmid/1614004-ly-aa-shrink-codeshare-agreement.html)

Nekamah7 Sep 28, 2014 10:18 am


Originally Posted by joshwex90 (Post 23593599)
Another possibility. None are too pleasing.
As much as we rag on LY, I'm not so keen on flying RJ to AMM in order to book QR via DOH :O

Safety concerns?
When I had my 12 hrs in AMM, they put us up in the airport hotel w/ meal vouchers. Since I couldn't eat the food, I requested a beer, totally forgetting that a few yards away, men were gathering for the feast at the end of each Ramadan day. Suffice to say that I didn't drink a beer outside that day. :)

joshwex90 Sep 28, 2014 10:41 am


Originally Posted by Nekamah7 (Post 23593716)
Safety concerns?
When I had my 12 hrs in AMM, they put us up in the airport hotel w/ meal vouchers. Since I couldn't eat the food, I requested a beer, totally forgetting that a few yards away, men were gathering for the feast at the end of each Ramadan day. Suffice to say that I didn't drink a beer outside that day. :)

A whole suite of concerns. I'm sure that if I never leave the airplane or airport, I'll be fine from a safety perspective.
But there are many European airports where I am now uncomfortable putting tefillin on. DOH?

People are free to do what they want, and I'm not looking to convince someone here NOT to fly QR, but at the same time, I don't want someone trying to convince me to... I do not feel so comfortable flying the state-owned airline of a country supporting the destruction of the country I live in.

And I've flown RJ. I prefer the food and service on LY. At least if it's a new plane, it should be a decent hard product. Though I'll miss the homey feeling of LY (and likely better food)

Indelaware Sep 28, 2014 5:55 pm


Originally Posted by Nekamah7 (Post 23592687)
Good to see they're updating the product. Flew them to BKK ex-TLV and the seat was mediocre, and the kosher food was terrible.

Yes, RJ has come a long way - both in terms of aircraft and employee training - over the past few years. And the new terminal at AMM is certainly much nicer than the old.

RJ's standard fare is Halal which largely (though not totally) follows the same dietary restrictions as Kosher. Perhaps next time, just order the vegetarian or Hindu meal. Or do what I do: I always plan on airline food being either inedible or insufficient - regardless of airline - and bring my own food. A jar of peanut butter and a banana can certainly hold one over no matter how long the flight.

mikebg Sep 29, 2014 3:21 am


Originally Posted by Indelaware (Post 23595524)
RJ's standard fare is Halal which largely (though not totally) follows the same dietary restrictions as Kosher.

The ONLY area where Halal and kosher meet is that both prohibit pig products. Mixing milk and meat is a far more serious breach of kashrut than eating pig, but it is permitted in Halal. Shellfish are prohibited in kosher (same level of seriousness as pig) as is camel (camel milk is very common in the Gulf States). The list is very long.

joshwex90 Sep 29, 2014 3:39 am


Originally Posted by mikebg (Post 23596993)
The ONLY area where Halal and kosher meet is that both prohibit pig products. Mixing milk and meat is a far more serious breach of kashrut than eating pig, but it is permitted in Halal. Shellfish are prohibited in kosher (same level of seriousness as pig) as is camel (camel milk is very common in the Gulf States). The list is very long.

Kosher is almost always Halal*. Halal is more likely not Kosher than it is Kosher

*Kosher can be not Halal when using the strict definition. Also, Kosher can cook with alcohol. And some (Israeli Rabbinate) permit the use of pig gelatin in certain candies (yes, this is the case, even if it sounds crazy). Not the case with Halal

mikebg Sep 29, 2014 5:43 am


Originally Posted by joshwex90 (Post 23597030)
Kosher is almost always Halal*. Halal is more likely not Kosher than it is Kosher

The Hermolis factory in London is certified glatt kosher (by Kedassia - a high level kasrut authority) and also has a Halal logo on the packaging.

LatusElAl Sep 29, 2014 6:38 am


Originally Posted by mikebg (Post 23596993)
Mixing milk and meat is a far more serious breach of kashrut than eating pig, but it is permitted in Halal.


joshwex90 Sep 29, 2014 7:22 am


Originally Posted by LatusElAl (Post 23597482)
Not quite sure you are right about that.
Pig - and other "impure" animals as delineated in the Torah - are considered a prohibition "D'oraitah" - which means, literally, from God Himself.
I am pretty certain that mixing milk and meat, while universally accepted from time immemorial as completely forbidden, is a rabbinic prohibition deduced from a verse in the Torah.
In practice, all the same - but there is a significant legal differential.
Note - that I could very well be completely wrong about the nature of the milk+meat prohibition.

This is completely OT (and I hope this gets moved to Religious Travelers if needed but not deleted, as the Kosher/Halal discussion is important on FT for travelers) but:
Milk/meat is Biblical as well, not Rabbinic. The difference is that pig is spelled out in the Bible whereas milk/meat is interpreted by the Rabbis through exegesis (i.e. Oral Torah, not Written Torah).

sds1493 Sep 29, 2014 8:31 am

LatjsElAl could be referring to the separation of milk and meat which is Rabbinic of nature. As Josh says, eating (and cooking) meat (as opposed to poultry) and milk is Biblical in origin.

LatusElAl Sep 29, 2014 8:51 am

OK. I stand corrected. I will delete so nobody gets confused.

nsoltz Sep 29, 2014 9:46 am

A long way from the topic of Halal vs Kosher, but I managed to snag a r/t J seat NYC-TLV departing late June returning mid-July using Aadvantage points. Hopefully AA will resolve whatever remains from the TWA bankruptcy and be able to fly AA metal into TLV. Hope those JFK-TLV rumors are true.

ELY001 Sep 29, 2014 12:02 pm


Originally Posted by nsoltz (Post 23598443)
Hopefully AA will resolve whatever remains from the TWA bankruptcy and be able to fly AA metal into TLV. Hope those JFK-TLV rumors are true.

Any updates on what settlement, if any, AA and the former TW employees made?

Nekamah7 Sep 29, 2014 1:52 pm

Put on hold just now the following flight for 5 ppl

TLV - LAX - SEA - KOA in Y :(
TLV - HKG - SGN in J :)

Indelaware Sep 29, 2014 4:26 pm

Faced with the loss of AA, LY has done what, IMO, a smart thing. They have filed for permission to code-share with B6.

http://worldairlinenews.com/2014/09/...-to-codeshare/
http://investor.jetblue.com/phoenix....654&highlight=

B6 and LY established interline ticketing in 2010, today's action, if approved, will build on that. (B6 has a very limited number of interline ticketing agreements.)

http://investor.jetblue.com/phoenix....cle&ID=1450835

Although no mention is made of frequent flier benefits, IMO, it is likely that one will be able to earn B6 miles for code-shared LY flights and visa-versa.

TWA884 Sep 29, 2014 5:08 pm


Originally Posted by ELY001 (Post 23599233)
Any updates on what settlement, if any, AA and the former TW employees made?

Read §§416-417 in Private International Law in Israel By Talia Einhorn

The case was Ezra Berman v Trans World Airlines, Inc., Tel Aviv District Court 1225/01, 2001(1) 29448. A related case was Insolvency Case - Trans World Airlines 2005(4) 10352.

In a nutshell, the Israeli court ordered that any assets that TWA still had in Israel (real estate, ground equipment, parts and ticket revenue) were to be liquidated and the proceeds kept in Israel and used to pay the preferred claims of the local employees.

Any value of these assets in excess of the preferred claims was to be turned over to the TWA bankruptcy trustee in the United States.

I doubt that anything was turned to the US bankruptcy trustee, as the Israeli employees claim to have received only about 14 cents on the dollar.


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