angS

Hi

I amtravelling to florida with my two teenage daughters one of whom has a tracheostomy. On occasion i need to do emergency care for her, so ive contacted thomsons welfare to ask about seats with more space around them. Dont fancy dealing with a blocked trachy with someones head reclined into us. Airline have said they will request row 11cde centre block seats for us.

This is an exit row, plane is a 767 300. Just unsure as to whether there will be a problem with us sitting in exit row as girls are only 14. I know its the centre so hoping it will be ok but these are the only seats in that row due to the main doors. (If that makes any sense?)

Anyone know the rules about this

Thanks

flyingwheels

Not familiar with their lay out, but YES this will be a problem.

Exit row seats have extra requirements with them and anyone sitting there HAS to fit them and be able to help if need be during evacuation. That is not airline bound, not EU bound, not US bound but international flight regulations. So Thompson would be VERY stupid and beyond careless to disregard that.

Requirements amongst others are;

- have to be adult
- has to be fit of mind and body and be able to assist during evac if need be

Obviously your girl fits neither and thus not allowed to sit there. You also would not be able to sit there without her (not that you would want to!), as another requirement states no adults allowed in these seats when having kids elsewhere on the plane (read; in case of emergency their attention likely will be on kids and go against traffic instead of opening emergency exit etc.)

Highly unlikely any proper airline will end up not only assigning those seats to you at check in but allow your family to remain in it as soon as any flight attendant spots you guys sitting their as both requirements are visably not fitting. Huge risk of ending up anywhere and everywhere but there.


Are you flying anything other than business (does Thompson even offer that??)? In that case the only option would be to get a bulkhead seat. Bulkheads seats are those with no seat in front of them, but rather a wall, bathroom or curtain. Now it does not standardly come with more legroom (can but also can very well be more limited, depends loads on lay out and specific seat) but you will have a HUGE security of no seat in front and thus nobody being able to recline into you. Only risk would be flying eco on smaller planes that have a first or business config, like for instance certain 737's. That can result in only a curtain between last row of front class and first row of eco and every once in a while when reclined the back of the seat can come into that standing space a bit.

Most airlines block bulkheads because of certain disability needs. Discuss it with the proper deparment and if need be quote fitting regulations. Both the EU and the USA have regulations regarding seating arrangements for those with specific need. Be aware though that it is not a MUST for any airline to assign a desired seat, only a obligation to do their best to assign fitting seating assignment. And all has no value at all when flying a plane that has a configuration that simply has NO bulkhead seats that are not (also) exit row seats.

One of the main reasons I would always get lay out, check it, plan to book very early and make sure not all of the very very few seats that can fit my needs aren't already assigned to others with need before making an actual booking back in the days I still flew eco. By now only business is an option healthwise, but in practice still the same tactic before booking as still will find most of the times (after having scratched of those airlines or planes not fitting my needs) only 1 or 2 seats on entire plane in said class will meet my needs.

flyingwheels

How is her romp stability? Just trying to think along here. If lack of bulkhead seats (that are not exit row), I'ld aim for aisle seat. If need be; have a turning sheet beneath her bum, so you can easily turn her 90 degrees and attent her trachy while standing in the aisle yourself. But that would require her to be able to sit up without a backrest herself or another child keeping her up.

In either way, did you consider what if the trachy needs direct attention during those times of the flight where you are not allowed out of your seat? No perfect seat in the world that will help you then and those situations will be quite long time frame wise. I've flown AMS-DUB-MCO multiple times and have experienced long episodes of turbulence requiring people to stay in their seats belted in, esp. above the transatlantic and northeast part of US. UK to Florida and back would follow that same flight corridor.

I'ld personally make sure all possible normal needed care (including these normal acute moments) could be performed with both of you remaining seated if need be. You so do not want to run into this and then have the added stress and impossibility of needing to stay seated, you not being able to quickly act or you standing up resulting in huge discussions with FA or worse.

Don't get me wrong, I get how health isn't always predictable. I am an avid believer though in being responsible for own care and health and in case of flying; being aware of rules I have to fit within and how me being callous with that could influence much more people than just me. Major reason why we always check, double and tripple check my care can be done in sitting position, including emergency care. Whether by myself or by my travelling companion. Which for me amongst others includes repositioning my larynx/voicebox when dislocating and cutting of my breathing.

Always go for the easier way when possible and safe for all involved, but also always be prepared that easier isn't always an option and being prepared enough that you can easily and safely manage when strapped down in the seats also. (so by all means; practice at home beforehand. Hopefully not needed but if so; you will kiss your own feet for having done so)

Often1

If anybody in the traveling party does not qualify for Exit Row, nobody in the traveling party may travel in it. One has to be prepared to expend one's full efforts to assisting the crew in the event of an emergency evacuation and that's clearly not going to happen here should there be both an emergency evacuation and a medical emergency with the child at the same time.

All air carriers have medical "desks" (usually an outsourced provider) which deal with exactly these issues.

angS

It's the medical team who have allocated these seats!!!

Here is the seat plan, if you see what I mean about them being near the exit

http://www.seatplans.com/airlines/Th...300ER-(258)-v2

flyingwheels

Looking at the map, they should be assigning 14AB or 14FG, not mentioned exit row seats. Not only to follow international aviation legislation (kinda important one would reckon ), but it is the most blocked of location. With 11CDE, you WILL have folks constantly walking in front of you going to and from the bathroom. It's a given fact for all first middle rows where people even just THINK they see space. Lack of galley right there will even make it happen more so.

If you want to help her while standing in front of her, that could be asking for real dangerous situations when somebody makes a sudden move when doing the above mentioned walking about. And believe me; they WILL make those sudden moves and bump into those folks in these types of seats. Seen it all the times. Only 14AB and 14FG would have a very low risk of nobody moving into the row. Beware though; risk is NOT zero. Folks will step into your row for stuff like making space for others to pass while waiting for bathroom etc. Having daughter in window seat should reduce bumping risk the most.

It would result in not all being in one row, but health, care and possibly safety so much goes above having an aisle between some of you or some being in row 15.

angS

Thanks I agree. However I have phoned welfare and asked about booking row 14. Apparently at these are extra legroom seats there is a charge - ok worth it for peace of mind but then they said we couldn't have them as you have to be adult able bodied? Just don't understand unless the seating plan is wrong?

flyingwheels

Wrong seatplan could be. Don't know if you noticed, but for the 763ER Thomson has 4 different lay outs. See; http://www.seatplans.com/airlines/Th...ways/seatplans

Your link, or version 2, would have 14 as a normal bulkhead. Abled body is NO IATA regulation as it is a normal bulkhead, whereas it IS an IATA regulation that you must be abled body for exit row. Which would conflict with them assigning 11CDE in this version.

Version one http://www.seatplans.com/airlines/Th...767-300ER-(258) would make row 12 the first with window seats, but those are exit row, just like 11 (only middle row on 11). Same with row 28. In that configuration there are NO seats available with no other seats in front of you, unless you go for premium class.

Version three http://www.seatplans.com/airlines/Th...ns/B767-300-11 would result in 15CDE exit row, and 17AB and 17FG as bulkhead and thus an option. Also exit row; 34AB and 35CDEFGH so no option in those either.

Version four; http://www.seatplans.com/airlines/Th...767-300ER-(328) same as three, with 1CDEF and 2AB and 2FG also being exit row thus no option.

Now these versions might not be the same numbers Thomson has them in, so using numbers would be confusing in the communication. Don't know if you can log into the reservation on the website from Thomson and find the flight specific seatplan with your assigned seat there. If so; than that one is the right one. If not able to log in, Thomson should really provide you the accurate one by mail or whatever, seeing how the lay out differs per type of the same model of aircraft and there is no proper communicating as it now seems.

Problem 2; them assigning row 11. Which according to info you can find either is a row somewhere in the middle of the class, or an exit row and thus IATA states you can not sit there because of disability, family and kids.

Problem 3; getting clear which configuration. If indeed version 2; solving their wrong judgement of calling a NORMAL bulkhead on "must be abledbodied". IATA says no such thing, yet they would then place you in 11 which is an exit row on said version 2 which is a violation of IATA regulation.

It would be highly unlikely of Thomson upon themselves deciding to only assign bulkhead to abledbodies. This would result in them basically singling themselves out in a negative way, where almost all other airlines would provide bulkheads to those with needs for them or (many) even pro-actively blocking them off from general assignment to hold them back in case there is a need for them.

Sounds like there is one or multiple folks not up to date with IATA regulations, let alone probably aware of the fact that both EU legislation and the US AACA applies. I know too little of Thomson to make any judgments but can tell you that some of these chartertype airlines can be a royal pain when dealing with needs. Be persistant, don't relent on getting the needed info like seatplan etc. Be clear, firm and if need be remind them of applicable legislations, but always stay respectfull. If need be escalate up the ladder.

Also ask for all in writing, for instance by mail. Or if possible; communicate through email and/or confirm phone calls that way. Every once in a while there is some discussion at the airport. Very few times it happens, but you don't want to end up in a "he said, she said" right before boarding when you can easily whip out a print out and point "look Mrs. Suzy approved it". No 100% guarantee, but solves things likes seatings assignments sometimes.

Also; is her extend of health kinda known to Thomson? Is the trachy obvious? Reason I'm asking is because it might trigger them requiring her to have a fit to fligh form or beforehand sent in a medical form. No biggie when obvious that it is safe for her to fly and no clear risk of her going into medical problems that might cause problems (read divert flight for instance) and her docs back her up. It does become a biggie when the situation is not clear, you get to the airport, an employee sees her trachy and goes into the "need form such and such and no flying otherwise". Especially something that is a bit less common for employees can trigger a wellmeant -allthough not always needed or correct- "need form or no flying". Someone very uncommon with a trachy might mistake it and confuse it for per definition being the same group as passengers needing oxygen on board (which we know isn't always a given with a trachy) and go through all those applying rules. So if you haven't discussed it yet or in any doubt; discuss it. With a trachy I might even just get a general medical form on me, just in case of running into unknowing employees. Forms I've had some airlines ask me to fill out didn't ask any medical details or sensitive stuff, just very general "this person is fit to fly and uses aids such and such". So on that intrusive.


Worst case scenario getting nowhere with the department themselves only option left; if available online check in and putting in some prayer, and/or going to the airport as early as possible. Some airlines are cr*p before travel, yet easybreasy when they see the need once you arrive at the airport. Don't think they'll proactively block off bulkheads from general public as you can apparently pay for said seat. Many EU airlines let that blocking off go out the window when they think there is €€ in a bulkhead (God knows why, too high a risk of a crying baby, disability stuff last minute, you name it).


Next time; did you know that booking your trip to the States is very easily doable yourself and no need for a package deal? Not only tend package deals to be more expensive, but you are stuck with prepicked options like airline, flighttime, transportation form, lodging etc. With booking yourself you can ultimately fit each chain to your needs and likes. Most of the times packages are more hurdles with not run of the mill needs than doing it yourself with stuff that can be picked based upon your needs. And great thing about the States; MUCH more flexible booking rules etc. for stuff like hotel etc. Like being able to get that better discount that comes out later without a penalty, being able to cancel closer to date or even basically check in date without costing anything or all, tends to be smaller downpayment, you name it. And while it is not always the case, many times doing it yourself can end up cheaper. :-) You wouldn't get me to book a package deal even if it was that or nothing. Too much quality difference IMHO, where doing it yourself gets a much better fitting trip with regards to both needs, likes etc.


I say next time, because well............ you'll come back addicted, wanting more and searching for any and all ways to repeat. It's a very contagious bug that Florida-itus. Many both UK and Dutch alike have found themselves going back over and over again and I have to say those sounds tend to only be more addictive from those of us with certain needs. The weather is great, but you will find public life heavenly accessible compared to day to day life. Whether you guys are planning on visiting any of the many parks in Orlando, beach, go shopping or whatever; much more accessible public life in general. If Orlando is on the plan and you want to visit Disney or Universals, visit something called the disboards. Huge disney-community with a special part focussed soly on disabilities. They know basically anything and all on there about DisneyWorld, whether you want to know specific bathroom sizes, where you can get her a bed to rest in the parks, right upto specific ride vehicle sizes, pics of each ride etc. All people with experience, including many moms, some even nurses and also those from the UK (also a seperate UKboard, but that isn't specifically geared towards disabilities). While not the main focus, there is also quite some knowledge about doing Universal with all kinds of disabilities. Given how popular WDW is, perhaps you will even find some moms who have flown Thomson before with a child with needs and can help you out with more Thomson specific experiences. Have seen the airline name come up quite a few times.

Oh and the EU regulation 1107/2006 you can find here in english; http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/...06R1107:EN:NOT

Most of importance for this would be totally on the bottom, Annex2 both about assigning seat for your daughter, and seat assigning for you on regards of needing to assist her in flight. As said, they only have to make reasonable efforts, but I have found that the mere mentioning of this regulation combined with mentioning "1107/2006" and mentioning "I quote" will get me interupted before even quoting and having solved some seating problems I have had back in the day when I hadn't found myself a proper airline yet.


And sorry for rattling on so much. *blush*

CDTraveler

I suspect I'm not the only one here confused about both your question and some answers you've been given.

To clarify: are you asking if your family would be allowed to sit in the center section of the exit row in a two aisle plane? Not the seats which adjoin the window, but those seats which have an aisle on either side of them?

I have a had those seats when traveling with a young child who clearly did not meet the age criteria for an exit row and never had anyone say a word about it. I suspect, but can not guarantee, that different rules apply to these seats, and I would ask the airline, in writing, to send you their policy on center section exit row seats.

Beyond that, I would avoid the bulkhead seats because you won't be able to store your things where you can reach them, and if you need suction in a hurry, you don't want to have to wait until the seatbelt light goes off.