|
Originally Posted by ma91pmh
(Post 21445810)
Nothing other than the realization as I get later in life that all bubbles burst eventually.... gosh back in the UK in the mid-2000s I actually found myself thinking "this time it's different" with respect to the economic conditions and housing market. Woe fool me. I have no insight into when or why, but for sure high end Bordeaux investment today is a bet on the Chinese economy continuing to sore, which of course can't go on forever. Particularly if you are looking at stuff that is really getting driven up in price by the China/Parker combination like Lynch Bages and Pontet Canet (no matter how genuinely great the improvements those houses have made - when a certain market segment is paying through the nose for those wines and then mixing them with Coke to drink, you know it can't last forever)
|
Originally Posted by flyboy60
(Post 21476455)
Interesting you mention Lynch Bages. I recently put much of my high priced Bordeaux from the vintages between 1982 and 1990 up for sale through a broker, and one of the first wines that completely sold out was 1989 Lynch Bages - at a price comparable to many first growths. I couldn't believe it - I sold out my Lynch Bages faster and at a significantly higher price than my Leoville Las Cases - which is in NO WAY supported by either the quality of the wine, the Parker scores, or what I paid for them back in the day. Yes, all to Chinese buyers.
Though I will say mature Lynch Bages has traded at a high premium long, long before the Chinese came barging in. When I first got into wine speculatively in the early 2000s I ended up buying Lynch Bages because after 10 years it priced more like a super-second than a fifth. And the 1989 is a 99+ Parker score compared to the 91 rated Las Cases (which personally I have always found overpriced versus the likes of Ducru or even Gruaud in St Julien - which happens to be my absolutely favorite wine region). Though I am surprised you got more than you did for first growths (the RP100 Haut Brion 89 looks like it trades around 4x the price of 99+ Lynch Bages) Anyway I am sure that was a good trade for you ^ |
Originally Posted by ma91pmh
(Post 21477114)
Yes indeed
Though I will say mature Lynch Bages has traded at a high premium long, long before the Chinese came barging in. When I first got into wine speculatively in the early 2000s I ended up buying Lynch Bages because after 10 years it priced more like a super-second than a fifth. And the 1989 is a 99+ Parker score compared to the 91 rated Las Cases (which personally I have always found overpriced versus the likes of Ducru or even Gruaud in St Julien - which happens to be my absolutely favorite wine region). Though I am surprised you got more than you did for first growths (the RP100 Haut Brion 89 looks like it trades around 4x the price of 99+ Lynch Bages) Anyway I am sure that was a good trade for you ^ Actually, Haut Brion and La Mission Haut Brion were the exceptions. I cleared $875 a bottle on the La Mission, and $1200 on the Haut Brion. The Lynch got $375, most other first growths got in in mid-high $400s And the Leoville got only around $225. BTW, I disagree with you about Leoville Las Cases - IMHO, it's consistently the best of the super 2nd growths (along with Ducru) - but it's also the largest production, so supply vs. demand is affected. Personal taste, I guess, but I find the Lynch Bages to be a less nuanced wine. In 1992, I paid $22 for the Lynch, and $70 for the Haut Brion |
:oI am embarrassed to post my cellar list here. Lots of rare, great and extremely expensive wines being listed here. I like drinking wine every evening and try to keep each bottle price less than $40 (with a few rare exceptions), and usually less than $30. Having said that, I've concluded I like oaky wines and usually ones that have the words 'smokey', 'leathery', 'earthy' in them and 'blueberries' listed in the fruity tastes. Like wines that are more full bodied. Cabernet, Nebbiolo and certain types on Sangiovese and Pinot Noirs are varietals I like, but I don't know enough to identify other types to hone down on what works best for me by just looking at bottles in a shop (I have tried to read up on regions/years but never manage to keep them in my mind, especially since normally avoidable wineries seem to produce classics in some years, etc. - too many things to remember). So instead, I've teamed up with the awesome Erick Urbina of Pearson's wine in Washington DC - he's been building combination cases for me once in 2 months. On my end, I catalog every wine using Vivino Pro and rate the tastes, and then let Erick know what I liked/did not like and he modifies my next combination case. So far so good.
Yep, I've not yet commented on what my top wines are, because they'd likely be your worst :D |
Originally Posted by arjunrc
(Post 21478328)
:oI am embarrassed to post my cellar list here. Lots of rare, great and extremely expensive wines being listed here. I like drinking wine every evening and try to keep each bottle price less than $40 (with a few rare exceptions), and usually less than $30. ..
Yep, I've not yet commented on what my top wines are, because they'd likely be your worst :D not at all. while the high end bordeaux stuff is fabulous, on a daily basis it's more in the $10-20 range. i find that is where you get the best bang for your buck. sure it's fun to pull out some high end stuff christmas time and new years and what-not but with my kind of habit i need quaffing material :) |
Originally Posted by flyboy60
(Post 21477951)
Actually, Haut Brion and La Mission Haut Brion were the exceptions. I cleared $875 a bottle on the La Mission, and $1200 on the Haut Brion. The Lynch got $375, most other first growths got in in mid-high $400s And the Leoville got only around $225.
BTW, I disagree with you about Leoville Las Cases - IMHO, it's consistently the best of the super 2nd growths (along with Ducru) - but it's also the largest production, so supply vs. demand is affected. Personal taste, I guess, but I find the Lynch Bages to be a less nuanced wine. In 1992, I paid $22 for the Lynch, and $70 for the Haut Brion i guess it's down to taste, i've always found the las cases' i've tried to be too closed and inaccessible. ducru is sex on legs, and i've found gruaud always pleasant. out of curiosity who did you sell through? i sold a bunch of 2000s last year through farr. they were talking their book down during the initial process but actually ended up getting great prices |
Originally Posted by arjunrc
(Post 21478328)
:oI am embarrassed to post my cellar list here. Lots of rare, great and extremely expensive wines being listed here. I like drinking wine every evening and try to keep each bottle price less than $40 (with a few rare exceptions), and usually less than $30. Having said that, I've concluded I like oaky wines and usually ones that have the words 'smokey', 'leathery', 'earthy' in them and 'blueberries' listed in the fruity tastes. Like wines that are more full bodied. Cabernet, Nebbiolo and certain types on Sangiovese and Pinot Noirs are varietals I like, but I don't know enough to identify other types to hone down on what works best for me by just looking at bottles in a shop (I have tried to read up on regions/years but never manage to keep them in my mind, especially since normally avoidable wineries seem to produce classics in some years, etc. - too many things to remember). So instead, I've teamed up with the awesome Erick Urbina of Pearson's wine in Washington DC - he's been building combination cases for me once in 2 months. On my end, I catalog every wine using Vivino Pro and rate the tastes, and then let Erick know what I liked/did not like and he modifies my next combination case. So far so good.
Yep, I've not yet commented on what my top wines are, because they'd likely be your worst :D My motto: Read up, drink up. They (we) have offlines that are like Flyertak DOs. It's fun going to a wine themed dinner and drinking some serious juice. Dan |
Originally Posted by arjunrc
(Post 21478328)
:oI am embarrassed to post my cellar list here. Lots of rare, great and extremely expensive wines being listed here. I like drinking wine every evening and try to keep each bottle price less than $40 (with a few rare exceptions), and usually less than $30. Having said that, I've concluded I like oaky wines and usually ones that have the words 'smokey', 'leathery', 'earthy' in them and 'blueberries' listed in the fruity tastes. Like wines that are more full bodied. Cabernet, Nebbiolo and certain types on Sangiovese and Pinot Noirs are varietals I like, but I don't know enough to identify other types to hone down on what works best for me by just looking at bottles in a shop (I have tried to read up on regions/years but never manage to keep them in my mind, especially since normally avoidable wineries seem to produce classics in some years, etc. - too many things to remember). So instead, I've teamed up with the awesome Erick Urbina of Pearson's wine in Washington DC - he's been building combination cases for me once in 2 months. On my end, I catalog every wine using Vivino Pro and rate the tastes, and then let Erick know what I liked/did not like and he modifies my next combination case. So far so good.
Yep, I've not yet commented on what my top wines are, because they'd likely be your worst :D Quite a bit of what I actually drink nowadays is Argentine Malbecs and Chilean cabs, and Aussie Shiraz and California Zinfandels that today costs under $20. The more I've tasted, the more I've come to be comfortable with my own tastes rather than what wine-writers tell me I should like best.
Originally Posted by ma91pmh
(Post 21478576)
out of curiosity who did you sell through? i sold a bunch of 2000s last year through farr. they were talking their book down during the initial process but actually ended up getting great prices |
having auctioned off my last 85 sassicaia, I would think my top wine is probably a 2005 Romanee Conti Echezeaux...some SQN's and other odd california stuff, but this is probably one of the gems...
|
Originally Posted by ma91pmh
(Post 21478567)
not at all. while the high end bordeaux stuff is fabulous, on a daily basis it's more in the $10-20 range. i find that is where you get the best bang for your buck. sure it's fun to pull out some high end stuff christmas time and new years and what-not but with my kind of habit i need quaffing material :)
Originally Posted by dhammer53
(Post 21478632)
You may want to take a look at www.wineberserkers.com It's like Flyertalk, but the discussion is about wine. When I say it's like Flyertalk, it means there are board personalities there too. ;) :D
My motto: Read up, drink up. They (we) have offlines that are like Flyertak DOs. It's fun going to a wine themed dinner and drinking some serious juice. Dan
Originally Posted by flyboy60
(Post 21478651)
When I bought most of those Bordeaux 20-25 years ago, I was typically paying $20-40 a bottle. It's only because of the wine boom in China that the stuff has typically gone up ten-fold in value - while inflation has probably gone up only 3x during the same timeframe. And that's why I've been selling the stuff. 99% of the stuff I actually drink is stuff I still pay under $40 a bottle, with a big slug of it being in the $15-20 range.
Quite a bit of what I actually drink nowadays is Argentine Malbecs and Chilean cabs, and Aussie Shiraz and California Zinfandels that today costs under $20. The more I've tasted, the more I've come to be comfortable with my own tastes rather than what wine-writers tell me I should like best. |
Originally Posted by dhammer53
(Post 21478632)
You may want to take a look at www.wineberserkers.com It's like Flyertalk, but the discussion is about wine. When I say it's like Flyertalk, it means there are board personalities there too. ;) :D
My motto: Read up, drink up. They (we) have offlines that are like Flyertak DOs. It's fun going to a wine themed dinner and drinking some serious juice. Dan |
Originally Posted by arjunrc
(Post 21478902)
Interestingly, I started my adventure at this range, but I found too many misses compared to hits and gave up - when I moved to the 15-30 range, I found many good wines and lesser misses.
I do shop mostly at Total Wine and their prices are truly fantastic though, so their 10-15 is frankly more like 15-20 at your average store. |
Originally Posted by dhammer53
(Post 21478632)
You may want to take a look at www.wineberserkers.com It's like Flyertalk, but the discussion is about wine. When I say it's like Flyertalk, it means there are board personalities there too. ;) :D
My motto: Read up, drink up. They (we) have offlines that are like Flyertak DOs. It's fun going to a wine themed dinner and drinking some serious juice. Dan But got good advice and insights for my NY storage problem. Final interim conclusion- once I exceed 10 cases, there are good price/terms solutions in the New York area. below that, I'd be better off storing with the current solutions (at the purchasing store, at home, or drink :D) |
Originally Posted by arjunrc
(Post 21478902)
Great link, Dan thanks! I was looking for this sort a a forum. What is a "DO"? Information on get togethers are in the Community forum. There's at least 1 WineDo every June in NYC. Here's the thread from this past June. This event is open to everyone. The wines we drink are more than acceptable. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/commu...-post-brt.html
Originally Posted by mkjr
(Post 21478959)
beserkers is the best...having been banned by squires. I agree, I drink it all and I know what I like and know what I don't like and it does not matter what it cost. If it sucks, it sucks...
dh |
Faust Cab
I love my 2008 FAUST Cabaranet Savignon!
|
| All times are GMT -6. The time now is 5:42 pm. |
This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.