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Specialty Coffees - your thoughts
my much better half is a coffee drinker. as for me, not so much so. i will, however, drink coffee on occasion.
for the most part, i make her coffee in the morning with our Hamilton Beach BrewStation. i have recently started buying specialty coffees that are significantly more expensive - twice the price, half the size. still, the cost per cup/cost per day is not very significant. to me, this is a lot like wine in that i don't really notice a big difference unless there is a significant disparity. i would actually say that coffee is far less distinguishable. she seems to notice a difference which is good enough reason for me to continue buying premium coffee - 100% kona, panama esmeralda, etc. realizing that what i am spending on coffee now is not truly consequential, i looked at other specialty coffees. after reading an FT thread on Hawaii, i found a link for coffeereview.com. from there i saw high ratings for both Green Mountain Coffee Roasters and PT's Coffee Roasting among others. one of the featured Green Mountain coffees (KHC) was $7.69 for 10oz whereas one of the featured PT's coffees (Pan. Es.) was $37.99 for 12oz. 1. money aside, is there a noticeable difference in these coffees? 2. can anyone recommend these or other specialty coffees that are definitely worth the price? 3. is the coffee in any way compromised by brewing it in the HB machine, and if so is there a better machine that takes up a comparable amount of space? TIA |
Originally Posted by Sam - DFW
(Post 8685524)
1. money aside, is there a noticeable difference in these coffees?
2. can anyone recommend these or other specialty coffees that are definitely worth the price? 3. is the coffee in any way compromised by brewing it in the HB machine, and if so is there a better machine that takes up a comparable amount of space? depending on the brand roaster-to-market distance is short and turnover is brisk, and I choose my varietal coffee based on those brands. (Okay, lately I go for a dark-roasted Sumatra from Jim's Organic Coffee, a local Massachusetts roaster.) Some purists roast their own, but I am too busy/lazy/old/autopilot-in-the-AM/etc. to do that...but I do buy whole bean and grind fresh with every pot. And don't ignore the quality of your local tap water...if it tastes off, filter it for your coffee. 2. Same as supra, with the observation that the less hands and distance from roaster to table in getting your coffee, the better (and greener). Not sure that the mail-order coffee enterprises would pass that test. 3. I use a French press. It requires a kettle on the stove or an electric kettle. (I've been known to bring a portable version along with already-ground beans on the road with me, using the in-room coffee maker to heat the water.) At home you grind your own beans, a burr grinder is best, set on coarse for the French press. You also have to deal with waiting 10 minutes for the infusion to complete, and with cleaning out the grounds afterwards. It is perhaps a more visceral way of doing the morning brew, but the result is infinitely more satisfying. |
1. You would have to look at on what kind of roast and such. And if you really want a fresh tasting cup of coffee, whole bean. Normally I go as far as freezing whole bean coffee (which I was told wasn't neccesary). As for me, in terms of pricing, normally I will just purchase Starbucks packaged coffee. In terms of specialty coffee, can't help you as much there.
2. I had a cup of Volcanica coffee from a friend and was quite surprised. 3. I use drip most of the time but french press for entertaining guests. |
One of the cardinal sins of coffee stores is the overroasting of very precious beans.Never waste money buying kona,blue mountain,brazillian estate,etc at a Starbucks or a Peets.They kill the unique charecter intrinsic to these very special coffees.
I have been buying from Inteligentsia Coffee in Chicago.They roast the day of shipment usually and are very picky about the beans they buy and respect the beans by NOT roasting every type to a full city roast or darker. I am sure Dallas must have such a coffee store-but it might entail a bit of a search. |
The specialty coffee world is, like the wine world, full of much baloney. However, there is a very real difference, if, you hit it. Only way to tell is to try the various offerings and see which one grabs you.
I do suggest a new machine. I bought a Presto Scandinavian Design Coffee Maker a year or so ago and it is both fabulous and cheap. I read many reviews of various makers before I bought it and I think it is a superior machine. Evidently the big difference is that the water is heated twice, once right at the spraying head so it is exactly right when it hits the coffee. Be sure to buy a gold plated filter element. Machine is $40 or less around Xmas or on sale, filter around $20. Also, a good grinder makes a big difference. Freshly ground coffee is better coffee. The coffee lovers usually suggest a burr grinder, but I have a blade which is good enough for the moment. Bottoms up! :) |
Stick with the wine analogy.
There are people who love two buck chuck and think it's one of the best wines out there, it's even won some awards. There are also many people who wouldn't go near the stuff unless it was to clean paintbrushes. Coffee is exactly the same, it all depends on what you like. |
Lots of good comments here. Clearly, coffee is generally far better if it has been roasted recently. Ideally, that means you'll roast it yourself if you're so inclined. If that's more work than you are bargaining for, find a local place that roasts their beans regularly, or a mail order place that will assure you they'll send out the beans right after they've been roasted.
As stated earlier, Intelligentsia is truly obsessive about sending their coffee out freshly roasted. I have never had stale or over-roasted beans from them. The other option might be to order directly from a coffee farm that grows the stuff you like. I was recently in Kona and visited Greenwell Farms. They grow wonderful coffee, and like Intelligentsia, always send it out right after roasting. Warning: If you order a pound of Greenwell Farms Private Reserve, your wife might not let you buy anything else.... |
It's much like wine. The local climate and soil play a lot into the flavors of the coffee. The roasts also make a big difference. You can taste the difference in a nice cup of fresh ground coffee. Also, a bit of variety is always nice. In terms of brewing, I have no idea of what that Hamilton Beach is or does. I use a FrancisFrancis X5 and generally drink Americano (ie expresso with water to make what is roughly the same strength as a drip) and I get a taste close to the same as my local coffee shop. Of course, they are fresh grinding each shot and I'm not. They grind it for me.
There's no need to go crazy with paying for coffee. You can get excellent beans for decent prices. |
I always buy my beans from the Algerian Coffee Store in London's Old Compton Street in Soho.
Specifically the Mocha Parfait beans which are one of the store's house blends. I grind them every morning and use a stainless steel cafetiere.I think the key is to let the water stand for a while after boiling so as not to scorch the coffee. I leave the cafetiere to stand on the warming plate of my AGA and fill a large coffee mug I bought in New Orleans 20 years ago with hot water to warm up the cup. I've discovered that the optimum time to let it brew is usually about the time it takes me to have some rapid jiggery-pokery with the missus while she's taking a shower.Although if she's not in the mood about the time it takes me to wet shave. When ready I empty out the water,put the milk in first then the coffee and sweeten with some Australian honey. It probably all sounds a bit too finnicky for some people but two cups later and the usual morning hangover is already on the mend. Especially if there's been jiggery-pokery.Fellers will understand. |
We buy Contra Cafe. They ship the beans to us, we grind them here, every morning. We like them, and they pay more than fair trade prices. :D
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I want freshly dark "French" roasted arabica whole beans with substantial aroma purchaed in small quantities for rapid consumption (and stored in a vacuum container left open for minimal periods). I don't think it really matters that much, but living in a hot climate, I do refrigerate the coffee container.
The bottom line is like the presence of UStroops in the UK during WWII... "Over paid, over sexed and over here!" In the case of coffee, we're suckers for over-priced, overdescribed and over sold products . Having drunk a minimum of 6-8 cups a day since the late 50s (and even more while a Navy watchstander), the brew is necessary for me, but when it's pompously inflated to anything more than a flavorful stimulant, we've passed reality and entered the realm of BS.... |
Originally Posted by TMOliver
(Post 8737527)
In the case of coffee, we're suckers for over-priced, overdescribed and over sold products .
Having drunk a minimum of 6-8 cups a day since the late 50s (and even more while a Navy watchstander), the brew is necessary for me, but when it's pompously inflated to anything more than a flavorful stimulant, we've passed reality and entered the realm of BS.... I've had 2 humongous cups of Joe to get me from comatose to functional every morning of my adult life (and truth be told, well before that). And once I started getting particular about how I did it, I was only self-medicating myself...now I can look forward to those 2 gorgeous cups at the dawn of the next day with pleasure because I have thought about them beforehand and changed my MO accordingly. Those 2 cups are now things of beauty, and well treasured. |
A bit of US coffee history
Originally Posted by marais
(Post 8743666)
You know, I used to think so. Having grown up on Maxwell House out of the stovetop percolator (coming from BNA, could there have been anything else? ;)) I really didn't think about my morning habit until a few years ago.
Then (during the McKinley administration) Vice President Teddy Roosevelt stayed at the Maxwell House in BNA soon after, and he exclaimed after sampling the coffee, "Bully, bully! it's good to the last drop!" Hence the slogan of Maxwell House, "Good to the Last Drop". General Foods bought the Maxwell House brand in the late 1920's (well before the Great Depression) which allowed the original heirs to build a fabulous Georgian mansion to the west of BNA called "Cheekwood"...which is now the Tennessee State Botanical Gardens and Fine Arts Center, made even more lovely in the latter days by Frist money :rolleyes: |
I love coffee, but I am by no means a coffee expert. I can definitely taste the difference between the same roast of differnce brands. I tend to use a drip machine with French Roast in the morning and if I decide to have a coffee after dinner, I use a French Press.
Since I go through a lot of coffee I can't spend exorbitent amounts on coffee, I usually buy Seattle's Best, however with my sister being an international flight attendant I have her pick me up Lavazza from Italy when she's there, I find it better than Illy as do most Italians. In Sweden I go for a brand that is cheap, but I find very good called Arvid Norquist. |
Years ago Consumer Reports did a review of coffees and plain old 8 O'Clock was rated a best buy. I've been buying it ever since. The only change has been switching from regular to hazelnut-flavored. I keep my eyes open for when it's on sale for $2.50 to $3 a pound.
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I'll admit that I'm not as much of a purist as my youngest brother who was once a "barista" for an un-named coffee chain. However, I've found that the coffees we agree to love are:
1. Wegman's Barry House Buzz - good enough that I can drink it black, a real challenge for me since I really like coffee the same color as me, and I'm a freckled redhead 2. Folger's Gourmet Selections in chocolate or caramel - Almost good enough to drink black and 3. Our absolute favorite is a fresh roasted Kona shipped straight from HI by our best friend. We also enjoy most coffees from Caribou Coffee... We REALLY don't like any of the coffee from Starbucks. It tastes like it's burnt and isn't worth the price.:rolleyes: |
We're coffee nuts - I drink waaaay too much of it. Our favorite is from our local coffee roaster Old Bisbee Roasters. They hand select the coffees that are in season and only roast in small batches. The owner is a perfectionist and has been written about in Gourmet Magazine. We even order it by mail when we know we're going to be in one place for more than a couple of weeks. $14/lb delivered.
I loathe Starbucks - it is sooo burned. For our 'cheap coffeee' we like Community coffee. If you make it really strong it's pretty good. We also like Illy - a fairly pricey Italian coffee that we got hooked on in San Miguel de Allende Mexico. Most of it depends on what you like.... and how you make it. I think a french press is the best but I even make it in the little hotel 4 cup coffee maker. |
Originally Posted by TMOliver
(Post 8737527)
Having drunk a minimum of 6-8 cups a day since the late 50s (and even more while a Navy watchstander), the brew is necessary for me, but when it's pompously inflated to anything more than a flavorful stimulant, we've passed reality and entered the realm of BS....
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Ever notice that some people can't make a decent cup of coffee no matter what kind of beans or equipment they use??
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Originally Posted by bzbdewd
(Post 8820327)
Ever notice that some people can't make a decent cup of coffee no matter what kind of beans or equipment they use??
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Originally Posted by cordelli
(Post 8688281)
Stick with the wine analogy.
There are people who love two buck chuck and think it's one of the best wines out there, it's even won some awards. There are also many people who wouldn't go near the stuff unless it was to clean paintbrushes. Coffee is exactly the same, it all depends on what you like. I just started receiving Boca Java coffee and am in love--The Banana Fosters flavor is just delightful. It's pricey, but coupons/discounts can be found on the Internet. |
Originally Posted by bigguyinpasadena
(Post 8687921)
One of the cardinal sins of coffee stores is the overroasting of very precious beans.Never waste money buying kona,blue mountain,brazillian estate,etc at a Starbucks or a Peets.They kill the unique charecter intrinsic to these very special coffees.
I have been buying from Inteligentsia Coffee in Chicago.They roast the day of shipment usually and are very picky about the beans they buy and respect the beans by NOT roasting every type to a full city roast or darker. I am sure Dallas must have such a coffee store-but it might entail a bit of a search. Edited to add: I forgot to mention use filtered water! The chemicals that are put into our drinking water can really affect the way good coffee tastes. I really can't stress enough to use filtered water only! Never ever ever ever tap water! |
HAH! *$'s DOES burn its beans!
In an effort to rule over everything coffee-starbucks has bought the company that makes the "clover"machine-whis is like an automated press pot and makes one cup at a time.These machines cost $11,000 each :eek:
I have experienced the clover at Intelligentsia--folks it is not all that wonderful.The coffee is not in contact with the water-which is not hot enough-long enough to fully extract the flavor. I would much rater be served an individual press pot. Here is an article about this http://consumerist.com/372326/starbu...or-burnt-beans |
A rather extreme anti-starbucks move by an indie
I get that they do not want to give starbucks one red cent-but I do hope they can find a buyer for a used $11,000 coffee maker!
http://consumerist.com/372729/no-sta...-coffee-makers |
Geographically speaking, IMHO Blue Mountain and Kona are the two best varieties of coffee I've had. The name of the last pound of Kona I went thru is escaping me, but I'll put it this way: I came home from my last cruise with 5 pounds of Blue Mountain in the luggage. I pick it up in the pierside shops in Ocho Rios, where it is shockingly well-priced.
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spend some time here:
http://coffeegeek.com/reviews/grinders use filtered water. do the wine blind taste thing, and see if you can tell the difference. i use paper filters. i find them to be finer than the gold filters. i do not like sludge in my coffee, although purests use cloth as it lets the sludge run through. |
Robin Williams: "What is this, sludge?"
Hank Azaria: "Yes, it's sludge - I thought it would make a nice change from coffee." |
Originally Posted by ConciergeMike
(Post 9509298)
Geographically speaking, IMHO Blue Mountain and Kona are the two best varieties of coffee I've had. The name of the last pound of Kona I went thru is escaping me, but I'll put it this way: I came home from my last cruise with 5 pounds of Blue Mountain in the luggage. I pick it up in the pierside shops in Ocho Rios, where it is shockingly well-priced.
If you're in ANC, the Kaladi Bros. Trieste is a really nice espresso blend, though it's not grown locally. :D |
Please define what you mean by specialty coffees. There are quite a few things called coffee these days. In terms of things like lattes, etc, they are mostly meant as breakfast drinks. If you're talking about better beans, then that's something different. I've drank a ton of Green Mountain coffee and really don't like it. The best way I can describe it is that it has a dirty taste to it. I like Vermont products and spent a lot of time drinking the stuff (was served at a place I worked), but I really never found it to be anything special.
In terms of advice in general, I would suggest a few things. 1. Buy a burr grinder and use fresh beans. The fresh grind does the most to help your effort. 2. Find out what kind of roast you like. Can you handle dark roasts or do you just like light roasts. If you don't like dark roasts, then it won't matter what kind of coffee is used if it is roasted that way. 3. Get a machine that does expresso. I always prefer an Americano (expresso with water added) to a standard drip. There's just more flavor. There is a large cost to buying expensive coffees every day. It eats up disposable income quickly. There are plenty of better things you can do with the money if you make the coffee at home such as travel or giving it to people in need. "3. I use drip most of the time but french press for entertaining guests." Good post. I'm sort of torn on the french press. It's great if you drink the coffee quickly, but the strength changes as you drink it if you drink it slowly and you always end up with sludge in the bottom of your cups. I'm not sure that guests would appreciate that. I do use one from time to time though. |
http://sweetmarias.com/ :cool:
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Alton Brown did a good eats episode on coffee that is worth more than a hill of beans. ;) Goes into a lot of detail on the physics and chemistry of different grinders, different brew mechanisms, etc.
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Personally, I like the Jose Vanilla Nut at Costco. I don't have the time to grind the beans at home, so I grind them there, transfer the coffee to mason jars and use my Tilia Food Saver to put a vacuum on them.
Probably not up to coffee connoisseur standards, but I like it and its reasonable. |
Having been a coffee roaster and retail store owner in a previous time, you do have a local roaster that is very good White Rock Coffee http://www.wrcoffee.com/
And there are huge differences in coffees from around the world. Just a brief primer there are two main types of coffee trees, the Robusta and Arabica. While Robusta coffee beans are more robust than the Arabica plants, but produces an inferior tasting beverage with a higher caffeine content. Your store brands such as Folgers and Maxwell House are made from robusta beans. Robusta is much cheaper than Arabica beans. And the caffeine content is about 3 times as high as Arabica. In general Arabica coffees that are grown at higher elevations tend to be lighter in body and higher acidity...best respresented by the Costa Rican coffees such as Tres Rios. Coffee acidity is typically a highly valued quality especially in Central American and some East African coffee such as Kenyan AA. On the other end of the scale would be the full bodied coffees, which have a heavier mouth feel. A Sumatra Mandheling would be a good example of a full bodied, low acidity coffee. Also the darker the roast the fuller the body will be and hense less acidity and less caffeine. There are many wonderful coffees out there that cost far less than Kona and Blue Mountain. And by the way, a lot of the coffee that is sold as Jamaican Blue Mountain is NOT. If you are going to pop for the real deal purchase the Wallingford Estate Jamaican Blue Mountain. Try the Costa Rican Tres Rios or Terrazu, Puerto Rico's Yauco Selecto, Guatemala Antigua, Ethiopian Yirgacheffe or Harrar, Yemen Matari Mocha or the blend Mocha Java which adds Estate Java to the Matari Mocha for a rich cup of coffee. A good source for additional information is the Specialty Coffee Association of America http://www.scaa.org/index.asp Hope this will be of some assistance, as you might gather I am a bit of a coffee nut :) Sam |
Originally Posted by GuyverII
(Post 8822035)
Good comments.
I just started receiving Boca Java coffee and am in love--The Banana Fosters flavor is just delightful. It's pricey, but coupons/discounts can be found on the Internet. ^ |
Try non-Kona coffee from Hawai`i! It's as good as Kona, comes with a wide variety of characteristics, and is often cheaper, too. Just about all of other islands grow coffee now. I love the full-bodiedness of Moloka`i coffees and the milder Kaua`i coffees. The Ka'u region on the Big Island has made a name for themselves locally with its coffee.
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To summarize some of the "facts" presented so far in this thread (trying to keep this general so that no matter what your personal preference in coffee is):
1. Choose the coffee that YOU prefer. If it's cheap, more power to ya. There is some correlation between price and quality, but price is also affected by trendiness of a particular bean (e.g., Jamaica Blue Mountain); supply (Kona produces less than Costa Rica); organic/biodynamic farming methods; and "fair trade" status (see "trendiness"). 2. Each type of bean has an optimum roasting point beyond which the flavor is diminished. Make sure the bean you like is not overroasted. 3. Minimize the time from roasting to grinding the beans. 4. Minimize the time from grinding to brewing the beans. 5. Use quality water for your brew. 6. Excluding espresso, the preferred method for making coffee is with the French press. (This point may be met with more disagreement than the previous four). |
I agree with "drink what you like" philosophy, but beware of flavored coffee because most use the lower quality robusta beans since the coffee flavors will be masked anyway.
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coffee grinder
Originally Posted by samftla
(Post 9703010)
Having been a coffee roaster and retail store owner in a previous time, you do have a local roaster that is very good White Rock Coffee http://www.wrcoffee.com/
And there are huge differences in coffees from around the world. Just a brief primer there are two main types of coffee trees, the Robusta and Arabica. While Robusta coffee beans are more robust than the Arabica plants, but produces an inferior tasting beverage with a higher caffeine content. Your store brands such as Folgers and Maxwell House are made from robusta beans. Robusta is much cheaper than Arabica beans. And the caffeine content is about 3 times as high as Arabica. In general Arabica coffees that are grown at higher elevations tend to be lighter in body and higher acidity...best respresented by the Costa Rican coffees such as Tres Rios. Coffee acidity is typically a highly valued quality especially in Central American and some East African coffee such as Kenyan AA. On the other end of the scale would be the full bodied coffees, which have a heavier mouth feel. A Sumatra Mandheling would be a good example of a full bodied, low acidity coffee. Also the darker the roast the fuller the body will be and hense less acidity and less caffeine. There are many wonderful coffees out there that cost far less than Kona and Blue Mountain. And by the way, a lot of the coffee that is sold as Jamaican Blue Mountain is NOT. If you are going to pop for the real deal purchase the Wallingford Estate Jamaican Blue Mountain. Try the Costa Rican Tres Rios or Terrazu, Puerto Rico's Yauco Selecto, Guatemala Antigua, Ethiopian Yirgacheffe or Harrar, Yemen Matari Mocha or the blend Mocha Java which adds Estate Java to the Matari Mocha for a rich cup of coffee. A good source for additional information is the Specialty Coffee Association of America http://www.scaa.org/index.asp Hope this will be of some assistance, as you might gather I am a bit of a coffee nut Sam |
Why exactly <$259? :confused:
As long as it is an adjustable decent burr grinder, you'll be fine. Not a blade grinder. Be guided by something like Amazon ratings. |
Originally Posted by norenewa
(Post 22802805)
Any suggestions for coffee grinders? What brand and type do you recommend in the less than $259 range?
Combine it with a great French press, good locally-roasted beans, and you'll have an unbeatable cup of coffee. |
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