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-   -   Best & worst Bourbon? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/diningbuzz/694797-best-worst-bourbon.html)

Duke787 May 1, 2020 9:42 pm

Went to the ABC store near me for the first time since quarantine and it was pretty well stocked on bourbon. Was actually pleased that they had a couple of bottles of Eagle Rare 10 which doesn't often make an appearance down here and was at a reasonable $35 price point

bwiadca May 8, 2020 8:38 am

The other day I've picked up in DC Willet 4yo 107.6 proof, Elijah Craig Small Batch Barrel Proof (uncut straight from the barrel) 122.2 proof and Buffalo Trace. Haven't tried the first two yet. Went with BT to pretend that I'm in Polaris :)
On the other hand, yesterday I've picked up in local Costco chocolates with Singleton Scotch whiskey. I've tried couple of them and to my surprise I really like them. I will go to the local ABC to get one bottle of Singleton 12yo to have real tasting :)

BamaVol May 31, 2020 5:06 am

Over 40 years ago, my boss asked me to pick up a bottle of bourbon for him while I visited my parents in NC. Rebel Yell, at that time and possibly still, was not for sale in Massachusetts. I bought my own bottle last week. It wasn’t on the bottom shelf, wasn’t sold in a plastic bottle and was priced at $17.99 but I didn’t have high hopes. Tastes like gasoline.

Duke787 Jun 20, 2020 8:54 pm

Picked up Woodford Rye at the ABC this go-around. Was on sale and the other ryes were meh. Wish they had the $35 Eagle Rare in stock that I got 6 weeks ago (and sadly am almost out of) but that was a no-go too.

Not bad but certainly not in the same league as the cheaper (but impossible to find in NC) Sazerac Rye that has become by go-to. Prefer straight Woodford but it wasn't on sale and the have always wanted to try the RYe.

CMK10 Jun 22, 2020 11:44 am

I enjoyed two glasses of this over the weekend. It is a bit on the sweet side though so if you don't like that you won't enjoy it.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Travel/Fl...IMG_0698-L.jpg

Herb687 Jun 24, 2020 3:47 pm


Originally Posted by Duke787 (Post 32472926)
Picked up Woodford Rye at the ABC this go-around. Was on sale and the other ryes were meh. Wish they had the $35 Eagle Rare in stock that I got 6 weeks ago (and sadly am almost out of) but that was a no-go too.

I don't know if you pass through DFW often but Eagle Rare is fairly easy to find in Texas, or at least East Texas. PM me a few weeks in advance of your next trip this way and I will be happy to go shopping for you at one of my honey holes in the GGG/TYR area.

Currently (sort of) enjoying an Angels Envy Manhattan. Cheap, store bought Manhattan mix is pretty meh. Angels Envy is a great sipping bourbon neat but it doesn't seem at all suited to a good Manhattan.

Edited to add: I'm curious what the bourbon intelligentsia here think I should do with my last 750ml bottle of Weller 12 year. I have one bottle left of Weller 12 that I bought about 5 years ago when the stuff was shockingly easy to find in Texas. While I enjoy Weller 12, it just doesn't wow me like it used to.

Should I keep the bottle forever as a fun conversation piece? Sell it? I could crack it open and drink it but based on my enjoyment level of the bourbon I feel like I'd be drinking money. I certainly don't place the value on it that it appears the online secondary market does...

Duke787 Jun 24, 2020 10:23 pm


Originally Posted by Herb687 (Post 32482711)
I don't know if you pass through DFW often but Eagle Rare is fairly easy to find in Texas, or at least East Texas. PM me a few weeks in advance of your next trip this way and I will be happy to go shopping for you at one of my honey holes in the GGG/TYR area.

Currently (sort of) enjoying an Angels Envy Manhattan. Cheap, store bought Manhattan mix is pretty meh. Angels Envy is a great sipping bourbon neat but it doesn't seem at all suited to a good Manhattan.

Edited to add: I'm curious what the bourbon intelligentsia here think I should do with my last 750ml bottle of Weller 12 year. I have one bottle left of Weller 12 that I bought about 5 years ago when the stuff was shockingly easy to find in Texas. While I enjoy Weller 12, it just doesn't wow me like it used to.

Should I keep the bottle forever as a fun conversation piece? Sell it? I could crack it open and drink it but based on my enjoyment level of the bourbon I feel like I'd be drinking money. I certainly don't place the value on it that it appears the online secondary market does...

Thank you!. Whenever they let me get back on the road I'm sure I'll pass through DFW and will shoot a PM your way -- I'm down to one last drop of Eagle Rare and according to the NC ABC Warehouse website there is none left in the state (should've bought more than 1 bottle clearly). Sadly in NC we get a pitiful allotment of everything.

If you decide to part with the Weller give me a PM. Not looking to pay secondary prices (they are insane) -- just a Weller fan back when it was affordable (and FWIW, completely understand if you decide to go the secondary market route -- the prices are astounding which makes our pitiful allotment in NC all the more pathetic -- I haven't seen Weller in this state since 2017).

TBRIC Jun 26, 2020 3:43 pm

From someone who worked for the largest bourbon company in the world for 17 years. There is no best or worst. The first 51% of the mash bill has to be corn. The remaining 49% is why this thread exists. That remaining portion, and differences in aging are what makes the taste different. Experiment, and find what you personally enjoy. And it’s not always price that determines quality. One caveat- the legendary Booker Noe once told me “Once you get past 12 years or so, it starts tasting more like wood and less like whiskey.” Never forgot that one.

stimpy Jun 26, 2020 4:13 pm


Originally Posted by TBRIC (Post 32487917)
From someone who worked for the largest bourbon company in the world for 17 years. There is no best or worst. The first 51% of the mash bill has to be corn. The remaining 49% is why this thread exists. That remaining portion, and differences in aging are what makes the taste different. Experiment, and find what you personally enjoy. And it’s not always price that determines quality. One caveat- the legendary Booker Noe once told me “Once you get past 12 years or so, it starts tasting more like wood and less like whiskey.” Never forgot that one.

Thank for that contribution! Back in the 80's I mostly drank Booker's. It is far too strong for me nowadays.

I hope that people can clearly taste the difference between Jack and Jim versus some of the better bourbons in this thread!

TBRIC Jun 26, 2020 5:01 pm


Originally Posted by stimpy (Post 32487985)
Thank for that contribution! Back in the 80's I mostly drank Booker's. It is far too strong for me nowadays.

I hope that people can clearly taste the difference between Jack and Jim versus some of the better bourbons in this thread!

Even Booker added water to Bookers!

stimpy Jun 26, 2020 5:53 pm


Originally Posted by TBRIC (Post 32488089)
Even Booker added water to Bookers!

Yeah, but he was old then, right? In your 20's you can drink it straight. Or at least I did.

BamaVol Jun 26, 2020 6:47 pm


Originally Posted by Herb687 (Post 32482711)
I don't know if you pass through DFW often but Eagle Rare is fairly easy to find in Texas, or at least East Texas. PM me a few weeks in advance of your next trip this way and I will be happy to go shopping for you at one of my honey holes in the GGG/TYR area.

Currently (sort of) enjoying an Angels Envy Manhattan. Cheap, store bought Manhattan mix is pretty meh. Angels Envy is a great sipping bourbon neat but it doesn't seem at all suited to a good Manhattan.

Edited to add: I'm curious what the bourbon intelligentsia here think I should do with my last 750ml bottle of Weller 12 year. I have one bottle left of Weller 12 that I bought about 5 years ago when the stuff was shockingly easy to find in Texas. While I enjoy Weller 12, it just doesn't wow me like it used to.

Should I keep the bottle forever as a fun conversation piece? Sell it? I could crack it open and drink it but based on my enjoyment level of the bourbon I feel like I'd be drinking money. I certainly don't place the value on it that it appears the online secondary market does...

If it was me, I’d sell it for the highest price and buy as many decent whiskeys as that money would allow, especially things I’ve thought of trying but didn’t want to part with the money for. Time to explore new territory.

MarkCron Jun 26, 2020 6:55 pm


Originally Posted by BamaVol (Post 32488220)
If it was me, I’d sell it for the highest price and buy as many decent whiskeys as that money would allow, especially things I’ve thought of trying but didn’t want to part with the money for. Time to explore new territory.

Yep, if W12 doesn't do it for you, sell it or gift it

Duke787 Aug 6, 2020 9:27 pm

Four Roses Small Batch is on special at the NC ABC stores this month so gave it a shot. Have previously tried yellow label and was very disappointed -- but that was a few years ago so gave Four Roses a try since my palate has definitely shifted. Drank it neat but found it incredibly sweet -- almost like a sugar bomb in my mouth. Will just have to use it as a mixer going forward.

A shame because at that price point I also could've gotten Woodford (also on sale at the NC ABC this month) and I like that straight or mixed so would've been a better choice.

thelark Aug 14, 2020 8:50 pm

Just had the 2019 Michter’s Celebration. Fantastic pour, probably in my top 5, and just in front of the 2016 expression.


Originally Posted by Herb687 (Post 32482711)
I don't know if you pass through DFW often but Eagle Rare is fairly easy to find in Texas, or at least East Texas. PM me a few weeks in advance of your next trip this way and I will be happy to go shopping for you at one of my honey holes in the GGG/TYR area.

Currently (sort of) enjoying an Angels Envy Manhattan. Cheap, store bought Manhattan mix is pretty meh. Angels Envy is a great sipping bourbon neat but it doesn't seem at all suited to a good Manhattan.

Edited to add: I'm curious what the bourbon intelligentsia here think I should do with my last 750ml bottle of Weller 12 year. I have one bottle left of Weller 12 that I bought about 5 years ago when the stuff was shockingly easy to find in Texas. While I enjoy Weller 12, it just doesn't wow me like it used to.

Should I keep the bottle forever as a fun conversation piece? Sell it? I could crack it open and drink it but based on my enjoyment level of the bourbon I feel like I'd be drinking money. I certainly don't place the value on it that it appears the online secondary market does...

I’m local and will buy it. It’s a drinker for me (not a flip) - I’ll open it with you and share a pour on pickup.

Duke787 Sep 18, 2020 9:20 pm

Maker's Cask Strength on sale this month at the NC ABC stores (reasonable $39.95). Holy cow this is good the sweet and spice balance is great -- this one is checking in at 110.4 proof. I'll likely go back and get another bottle before the sale ends at the end of the month.

Also scored an Eagle Rare -- the ABC store I visited had about 4 left tucked away in their "special and vintage" section. A "one per customer limit" but still good to snag given how hard they are to come by here.

javabytes Sep 24, 2020 7:03 pm

Perhaps my favorite time of year

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...1a26b8e30a.jpg

Herb687 Oct 15, 2020 5:16 pm


Originally Posted by javabytes (Post 32699027)
Perhaps my favorite time of year

Happy (Old Forester) birthday to you!

Do you have a line on OFBB at retail? I've twice had the 2019 OFBB in restaurants and thought it was great (first time) and very good (2nd). Never once saw the stuff in a liquor store. The one review I read of the 2020 makes it sound like an excellent bourbon too. Did you crack open either of those bottles yet? I'm assuming they're 2020?

chgoeditor Oct 15, 2020 7:20 pm

I'm not a bourbon drinker but Mr CE is an Eagle Rare fan. We're at our local pub and the owner told him she'd score him some bottles next time she orders. (It's been impossible to find in Chicago retail stores since the pandemic, and bars can now sell bottles to go.)

javabytes Oct 16, 2020 4:09 pm


Originally Posted by Herb687 (Post 32750810)
Happy (Old Forester) birthday to you!

Do you have a line on OFBB at retail? I've twice had the 2019 OFBB in restaurants and thought it was great (first time) and very good (2nd). Never once saw the stuff in a liquor store. The one review I read of the 2020 makes it sound like an excellent bourbon too. Did you crack open either of those bottles yet? I'm assuming they're 2020?

Yes, those are 2020, and I've cracked one of them open already. It's definitely tasty, though I think I prefer last year's. I've been able to do alright these past two years at retail (or close enough to it).They go like lightning though, so it has involved knowing which days of the week the distributor delivers to each of the stores, and then proactively seeking it out on those days for the first couple weeks in September. Far more misses than hits. The only place near me that still has one at this point wants $800 for it.

javabytes Oct 16, 2020 4:16 pm


Originally Posted by chgoeditor (Post 32751011)
I'm not a bourbon drinker but Mr CE is an Eagle Rare fan. We're at our local pub and the owner told him she'd score him some bottles next time she orders. (It's been impossible to find in Chicago retail stores since the pandemic, and bars can now sell bottles to go.)

Surprised to hear it's that hard to find. I'm in Chicagoland as well and it seems to be pretty available (though I don't buy it so I don't pay super close attention). A connection at a store or restaurant is pretty sweet, especially if the price point is good. If it's too far north of $35-40 and you live near a Binny's they get their deliveries on the same days every week (Wednesdays or Fridays usually) and they get Eagle Rare on the regular, so that might be worth a phone call. Though there's also an argument to be made for supporting your local pub even at a higher price point because I'm sure they're struggling with COVID.

chgoeditor Oct 16, 2020 8:14 pm


Originally Posted by javabytes (Post 32753005)
Surprised to hear it's that hard to find. I'm in Chicagoland as well and it seems to be pretty available (though I don't buy it so I don't pay super close attention). A connection at a store or restaurant is pretty sweet, especially if the price point is good. If it's too far north of $35-40 and you live near a Binny's they get their deliveries on the same days every week (Wednesdays or Fridays usually) and they get Eagle Rare on the regular, so that might be worth a phone call. Though there's also an argument to be made for supporting your local pub even at a higher price point because I'm sure they're struggling with COVID.

The Binny's we frequent (Evanston & Lakeview) will only sell one bottle at a time, and it's kept locked up. They do not always have it in stock, and you can't even find it on their website. Whole Foods occasionally has it on the shelf, and he's cleared them on more than one occasion. We're big supporters of our local pub, so he's happy to buy from them if they can supply it. Let me know if you see it in stock on the north side/near north suburbs because I know he would happily stock up. In the meantime, he bought a bottle of Kentucky Owl to get by :)

javabytes Nov 10, 2020 2:52 pm


Originally Posted by chgoeditor (Post 32753260)
The Binny's we frequent (Evanston & Lakeview) will only sell one bottle at a time, and it's kept locked up. They do not always have it in stock, and you can't even find it on their website. Whole Foods occasionally has it on the shelf, and he's cleared them on more than one occasion. We're big supporters of our local pub, so he's happy to buy from them if they can supply it. Let me know if you see it in stock on the north side/near north suburbs because I know he would happily stock up. In the meantime, he bought a bottle of Kentucky Owl to get by :)

As an FYI, Van Winkle hits Chicago this week and the Buffalo Trace Antique Collection next week if you’re interested. Happy hunting.

toomanybooks Dec 21, 2020 9:08 am

There is a new law in Kentucky allowing distillers to sell across state lines directly to consumers who live where reciprocity has been granted. I emailed Angel’s Envy to ask what states are eligible and they responded:


“The states are Alaska, Arizona, Connecticut, Hawaii, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, North Dakota, Rhode Island, and Washington DC.”

Duke787 Dec 29, 2020 8:44 pm

Made a couple of Manhattans tonight.

Made one with Sazerac Rye and one with Single Barrel Sagamore Ragtime Rye (a nice Christmas gift). I usually love Sazerac Rye but the rye % is too low and makes the cherry flavor too dominant, the Ragtime Rye makes the better option here with the higher rye mash.

Fun to experiment at home to taste the differences.

javabytes Jan 2, 2021 9:05 pm


Originally Posted by Duke787 (Post 32922757)
Made a couple of Manhattans tonight.

Made one with Sazerac Rye and one with Single Barrel Sagamore Ragtime Rye (a nice Christmas gift). I usually love Sazerac Rye but the rye % is too low and makes the cherry flavor too dominant, the Ragtime Rye makes the better option here with the higher rye mash.

Fun to experiment at home to taste the differences.

The real question... what kind of cherries? :D

Duke787 Jan 4, 2021 9:58 pm


Originally Posted by javabytes (Post 32933127)
The real question... what kind of cherries? :D

It was a spur of the moment decision to make Manhattans and I was already at Whole Foods, the only thing they had was Tillen Farm Bada Bing cherries.

Pretty solid IMO — I know Luxardo is the gold standard but the TF worked well and was a lot lighter on the wallet

BamaVol Jan 6, 2021 11:16 pm

I just read that 400 bottles of Pappy are up for grabs in PA, most direct to consumers. Must be a resident. It’s a lottery. Google for instructions.

phillygold Jan 9, 2021 4:59 am


Originally Posted by BamaVol (Post 32946395)
I just read that 400 bottles of Pappy are up for grabs in PA, most direct to consumers. Must be a resident. It’s a lottery. Google for instructions.

I’ve entered! I have never been lucky in these things...maybe this time will be different.

MarkCron Jan 9, 2021 6:10 am


Originally Posted by phillygold (Post 32953335)
I’ve entered! I have never been lucky in these things...maybe this time will be different.

Based on last year, odds are roughly 1% chance of winning (~1k bottles, ~120k entries)

BamaVol Jan 9, 2021 9:21 am


Originally Posted by MarkCron (Post 32953422)
Based on last year, odds are roughly 1% chance of winning (~1k bottles, ~120k entries)

That's actually better than I expected.

Duke787 Jan 9, 2021 9:38 pm


Originally Posted by BamaVol (Post 32946395)
I just read that 400 bottles of Pappy are up for grabs in PA, most direct to consumers. Must be a resident. It’s a lottery. Google for instructions.


Originally Posted by phillygold (Post 32953335)
I’ve entered! I have never been lucky in these things...maybe this time will be different.


Originally Posted by MarkCron (Post 32953422)
Based on last year, odds are roughly 1% chance of winning (~1k bottles, ~120k entries)


Originally Posted by BamaVol (Post 32953785)
That's actually better than I expected.

I'd take 1% odds. I've been entering the Durham, Orange, and Mecklenurg (NC) ABC Lotteries since 2014 (covers not only Pappy but BTAC and a few other "special bourbons") and nothing so 1% would be an improvement.

javabytes Jan 12, 2021 9:26 am


Originally Posted by MarkCron (Post 32953422)
Based on last year, odds are roughly 1% chance of winning (~1k bottles, ~120k entries)


Originally Posted by BamaVol (Post 32953785)
That's actually better than I expected.

“True” Pappy is way down this year. Bottle counts for 23yr are down almost 75% and 20yr about 60%. Just like what happened with almost all of the BTAC products.

A lot more VW rye this year though, and the Van Winkle bourbons that aren’t Pappy are roughly flat (<10% change).

Herb687 Mar 4, 2021 9:23 pm

Early Times Bottled in Bond
 
I stopped by a liquor store today to see if they had anything interesting and I was shocked to find that Early Times Bottled in Bond ($25, if memory serves) was in the special cabinet where they keep "rare" and expensive booze and limit quantities you can purchase at one time.

Anyone know what's so special about this $25 bourbon that it must be hidden from the masses?

(Edited to add: forgot to mention that the bottle had two different DSP plant numbers printed on it. BiB whiskies must be distilled during one season at one plant so why the two DSP numbers on one bottle?)

stimpy Mar 5, 2021 7:30 am


Originally Posted by Herb687 (Post 33078377)
I stopped by a liquor store today to see if they had anything interesting and I was shocked to find that Early Times Bottled in Bond ($25, if memory serves) was in the special cabinet where they keep "rare" and expensive booze and limit quantities you can purchase at one time.

Gosh do they still make it these days? It's been decades since I had "squirrely times" as it was usually one of the cheaper bourbons at local bars.

Herb687 Mar 5, 2021 8:10 am


Originally Posted by stimpy (Post 33079020)
Gosh do they still make it these days? It's been decades since I had "squirrely times" as it was usually one of the cheaper bourbons at local bars.

Well, obviously given BiB requirements they made it at least 4 years ago.

And at $25 that's certainly mid-shelf pricing but why the heck is it being carefully hidden from the sight of people who might want to buy more than one bottle?

toomanybooks Mar 11, 2021 11:15 am

Bourbon fans are invited to join our Flyertalk LEX Horse and Bourbon DO April 16-18.

This is the 17th time. Already have around 20 likely attendees.

Some 7k AA redemptions to/from LEX were available as of yesterday. Or fly to CVG or SDF.

Speaking of Pappy, there is a bar we visit that last time had Pappy by the shot, with “buy one, get one” W/F/Sun at 5:30.

Details here:

https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/comm...l#post33093068

thelark Mar 12, 2021 7:14 pm


Originally Posted by Herb687 (Post 33079120)
Well, obviously given BiB requirements they made it at least 4 years ago.

And at $25 that's certainly mid-shelf pricing but why the heck is it being carefully hidden from the sight of people who might want to buy more than one bottle?

because taters have started hunting it.

Super Mario Apr 3, 2021 9:01 am


Originally Posted by Duke787 (Post 32939091)
It was a spur of the moment decision to make Manhattans and I was already at Whole Foods, the only thing they had was Tillen Farm Bada Bing cherries.

Pretty solid IMO — I know Luxardo is the gold standard but the TF worked well and was a lot lighter on the wallet

Secret tip for anyone with a Trader Joe's near you. Their amarena cherries are $4.50 and amazing. They are a seasonal item around fall I believe. Nothing beats them at that price. I place them very near the $20 guys, if not the same.

FLYMSY Apr 4, 2021 9:36 am

At the grocery today, I saw Jim Beam Orange liqueur infused with bourbon whiskey. Yuck.


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