At least Jack Stack in KC MO is listed and it is good. It is where the KC BBQ DO usually starts for a Friday dinner.

ABSOLUTELY +1 - I have lunch there once per week. Award winning, been on the TV a few times, just a shame it is never on the KC BBQ list of to-do's ./

Hyperbolic at best.

Instead of doing a break at the Casino like last time, we should substitute it instead :)

Good, will try to hit it if possible

Texas Pride outside of San Antonio has redefined BBQ for me.

I should say that I have always hated BBQ. Mostly because I hate sauces and condiments. All the BBQ I had tried up until I had Texas Pride's brisket relied on a special BBQ sauce to make it good. But Texas Pride relied on a rub to give the meat its special flavor (that and, of course, the long smoking process). The meat itself was succulent and flavorful and in no need of a flavor masking/improving sauce.

I think that the true sign of good BBQ is the meat plain and naked. If it needs a sauce, then the proprietor has no business in the BBQ realm. BBQ joints that pride themselves on their sauces betray their disrespect for the meat. They are saying that the meat itself can't be succulent and satisfying of its own accord. The ones that push their own bottled sauce sales are saying that there is nothing special about the meat that they serve and you can get nearly the same results at home.

So this BBQ snob always orders her meats "naked" (since she hates sauce anyway). Most of the time it is dry and lacks flavor. It's not much better than might come out of my oven at home. I have learned several things in the 7 years that I have been eating BBQ. The first is that Brisket is the hardest of all meats to get right. Second, if a place can get their brisket right, then they do most everything else well. Third, pulled pork is the easiest meat to do well (rarely is it both dry and flavorless -- dry being the greatest sin, IMO). Fourth don't bother ordering anything but the pulled pork (unless you are ordering something else along with pulled pork on a combo platter) on your first visit since if they can't get the pulled pork right, the rest of their meats will be simply dreadful.

I do give Bid Bob Gibson's BBQ a second place. I think that their ribs are very good and I hate ribs. Plus their cole slaw is awesome. It is just the way I like it.

Interesting viewpoint - I can't possibly imagine eating BBQ without the sauce, but obviously YMVs.

My biggest sin as far as BBQ is concerned - eating a sandwich and getting a big piece of fat in my mouth. I literally cannot abide fat and it will make me retch. Even thinking about it turns my stomach. Places that aren't careful in trimming their meat are completely off my list.

This woman knows what she is talking about.

If the meat comes pre-sauced at a BBQ joint, you can safely turn around and walk out.

This guy gets it.

The world's best BBQ is from Parker's Barbeque in Wilson, North Carolina!!

Maybe for 'Eastern' Carolina Q.
Otherwise - Lexington #1 [aka The Honey Monk], Lexington, NC

Maybe pulled pork should be the easiest to do well, but that is certainly not my experience. I can find decent brisket, tri-tip, chicken and ribs pretty easily, but it has been years and miles since I've had good pulled pork. I've quit ordering it until I can return to No. Carolina.

While I am personally partial to Texas BBQ based on my years living in Austin (and thinking of the drives to Lockhart in the spring with with the wildflowers blooming as one of my fondest memories) I think comparing across styles is just hopeless. Statements in support of Texas vs KC vs Carolina will almost always come out as arbitrary and reminiscent of something that is being discussed relative to Elizabeth I vs the Catholics - although hopefully without the executions.

For my own perspective, I only rate them within type; best Texas style, best KC style (with or including as a separate style the STL variant) and best Carolina style. And try to enjoy the best of each style based on their unique characteristics.

I'm not worthy, I guess - I didn't even know there was a Carolina style. What is the STL variant? You guys are hardcore about your BBQ

Carolina style is a vinegar based BBQ if I understand correctly. I have not had much of it, but find pulled pork done that way quite good. My brother in law, a real foodie has taken me to some places in the CLT area. STL is pretty close to, perhaps indistinguishable from KC. That's why I hedged on that one, it might just be local pride from the places I have been to in STL.

Carolina BBQ is world famous and has been made and eaten for hundreds and hundreds of years.

See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbecue_in_North_Carolina

http://www.ncbbqsociety.com/

Growing up I always thought of STL 'cue as much more aligned with Memphis. Whenever we were there during a college roadtrip or whatnot, it was usually dry-rub ribs and maybe a chopped meat sandwich. Rarely the thick molasses sauces and burnt ends of Kansas City.

But it's been a while since I've been over there and *not* eaten Italian, so I guess it could have changed...

No, you may be right. I usually get it with sauce but now that you mention it perhaps STL and Memphis are separate types, with STL being a bit of a hybrid between Memphis and KC

All the pulled pork I've had in No. Carolina has been served naked with the sauce on the side, just the way I like it. There has to be much more to it than the vinegar based sauce. The smoked pork butt itself is different (and better) than I've had almost anywhere else.

Don't forget there are different sub-categories within the Carolina-style paradigm. I avoided eastern NC 'cue for awhile as I really am not a fan of vinegar, so I thought I'd prefer the tomato+vinegar-based sauces in western NC (and I did find Lexington BBQ #1 quite amazing and have had pretty darn good stuff as far west as Asheville). I found, however, that I very much like the eastern NC vinegar-based sauces.

I had no idea there was STL-style 'cue. The only stuff about food in STL I was able to find online prior to my trip there a couple of years ago was a big warning to avoid STL-style pizza as it uses the apparently disgusting Provel cheese product. Might have to look up a BBQ joint next time I'm passing through. I do seem to pass through relatively often as I have family in southwest Missouri, which, even though it's less than four hours from KC, only has "fake" BBQ (smoker+pellets, not real hardwood like the top places use and the purists like).

Also, you did forget Memphis-style in your post above, although I see some discussion about Memphis-style BBQ in subsequent posts.

My BBQ philosophy as well. ^

It took me a while to come around on NC BBQ. It was tough to get used to the vinegar and the first place I had it wasn't very good. Now I like it. My favorites are:

Hog Heaven - Durham, NC

Bob's BBQ - Creedmore, NC

Parker's BBQ - Wilson, NC

Try Mack Kells for pulled pork if you are in Asheville. Not a typical BBQ joint at all. A bar with pub grub specializing in wings, that happens to have pulled pork perfected.

They are really stretching the meaning of BBQ by including pork and sauces. It's cute and all, but they are the proverbial beans in a true BBQ chili: not necessary.

There isn't, really. It's not a recognized region of its own, per se.

People love or hate the ultrathin St. Louis pizza. We have a place in KC that serves it (Waldo Pizza, a very pro-St. Louis establishment in general) and I like it once in a while. But it seems cheap and easy to make - not really a pizza style that one would consider as a serious category like Chicago pizza.

St. Louis will always be an Italian food town to me...not sure if anything will change my mind on that. (As in, good restaurants with full Italian menus...not pizzerias.)

:D I see Texas has arrived...

Inspired by this thread I went out for BBQ today at The Q Shack, a Texas style BBQ joint in Durham. Had smoked jalapeno and cheddar sausage, potato salad, onion rings and hush puppies and two beers. Now THAT'S a lunch! :D

I'm going to have to disagree with that. I've found that pulled pork is the easiest to do well. Even mediocre pulled pork is tasty and quite edible. Bad brisket, on the other hand, is horrendous.

Even here in TX, pulled pork is the safest BBQ bet. While brisket is certainly king here in TX, few places actually consistently get it right. There is tons of bad brisket on offer all over this state.


Absolutely. I would never compare across different styles. They are entirely different things, each wonderful for their own reasons.

Back to Texas BBQ though, this may be heresy but I am going to suggest taking a pass on it unless you really know the place. There is just so much bad brisket around these days that the odds favor something ranging from disappointment to getting something nearly inedible.

As for a few Texas BBQ joints that are worth the trip. My favorite BBQ places in the state, in no particular order, are:

Pecan Lodge in Dallas (brisket is consistently phenomenal, beef ribs less so than at Louie Mueller)

Black's in Lockhart (while it seems to get less publicity, Black's gets my pick among the Big Three of Lockhart; I've been disappointed by both Kreuz and Smitty's)

Louie Mueller in Taylor (beef rib!!!)

One of my usual haunts is The Pit over in Raleigh. The BBQ is good and it has a nice sit down atmosphere but the food is still really cheap. Plus, great beer selection AND the food comes out incredibly quickly.

http://www.thepit-raleigh.com/

This question has no answer.

We just randomly met a couple who live in the same small North Carolina town we did 30 years ago. Within 15 minutes we were passionately discussing the relative merits of the two BBQ places owned by brothers in the small town that to outsiders would be indistinguishable. It was clear that we were not going to be able to come to consensus.

BBQ is a very personal matter.

I could have written that myself. I can't see the appeal of Kreuz
and Smitty's. On the other hand, last month at Black's I asked
for moist brisket, and the girl sold me some overcooked nonsense
that even to visually handicapped me looked dubious, and when
challenged, she said, oh, it's really marbled. So I took it, and lo
and behold my tired eyes hadn't misled me. Giving them full
marks, though, I cut the line and complained, and some guy cut
me a full new order; the original went into the bin.

Do they have a booze license? When I was there a couple years
ago, not even beer. For that reason I would recommend Taylor
Cafe down the street, if Vencil Mares is still alive - but ask for
the sauce on the side.

By the way, I found a new favorite to put in the pantheon with
Black's, Franklin, Snow's, and the Ironworks - Two Brothers in
of all places San Antonio; this might be the best of all if you
like heavy smoke and a salty bark.

Ironworks? Really? I'm surprised to see that mentioned along with those others. It's been probably 5+ years since my last visit, and while it wasn't terrible, IIRC, it was far from the top echelon.

They get high marks for their beef ribs, but everything else is pretty much "meh".

I have had the opportunity to visit Black's on several occasions (when making trips from Austin down to Victoria) and have always had fantastic meals. It's the best BBQ I have had and it's consistently good. Hopefully the place doesn't change.

Thinking of Black's, and the 8 degree whether this morning makes me want to do a road trip to Austin.

Vencil's joint at Taylor Cafe is some of the most disappointing brisket i've had in my life. Gray like a winter sky and dry like the sonoran desert.

Louie's was my favorite. Sure Franklins is top notch but i'm to jaded to put up with 3 hours standing in line for anything.

Recently had some Pecan Lodge and both their brisket and beef ribs were phe-nom-enal. Pork ribs did the trick, too

I travel to Austin every 2-3 months for work, and always head to Rudy's since it's close to our office.

We sent someone out to stand in line at Franklin's once, and it was a 3 hour wait. The brisket was definitely good, but 3 hours is just too long to wait.

Not a fan of gas station BBQ.

They will let you place an advanced order to go and allow you pick it up before they open for the day, but sometimes finding an open opportunity to do this is hard since folks usually book it up two weeks in advance.

that's a good tip to know, I might just do that on the next trip there. thanks.

Where does Stiles Switch figure in the Austin BBQ universe? I tried it recently and I was curious as to the opinions in here.

Here's an article from last year that lists the top 10 in Austin:

http://www.mystatesman.com/news/ente...3620358.735375

He lists Stiles Switch at #6. I would personally drop Micklethwait down to #6 and re-arrange the top 5 to be:

1. Franklin
2. LaBarbecue
3. Brown's
4. J. Mueller
5. Stiles Switch

I ate the best baby back ribs ever at Black's last January. Remarkable; perfectly cooked, perfectly basted.

I also ate at Kreuz, and absolutely loved the smoked boneless prime rib and the pork chops. To finish off my BBQ pilgrimage to Lockhart, I got the moist brisket from Smitty's, which was great, and beef ribs from Chisholm Trail. I don't think I ate anything other than BBQ leftovers for the next couple of days.

The pit man at Kreuz (where they don't use sauce) told me that in his opinion the best sauce in the area was at City Market in Luling (15 miles south of Lockhart near the I-10); I got some and it was outstanding.