Both are fantastic. Alinea is more of a "once in a lifetime experience" type of place. Oriole was purely about food/flavor.

Alinea may be a "once in a lifetime experience" place but I'd love to go back. The food/flavors were spectacular. It's not a zero sum game!

Does that mean the food itself wasn't good, that you wouldn't go back again for a 2nd time? My expectation/worry is that Alinea might be too gimmicky.

Good to hear that you'd go back! I was really feeling unsure about Alinea!

We were just talking about Alinea last night after seeing the new World's Best 50 rankings. Alinea, Geranium, Noma (lunch), Cyrus, Saam (inside Bazaar Beverly Hills), Amber, Kitcho, Narisawa, Saison, Atelier Crenn, Manresa, Guy Savoy, Meadowood, The Test Kitchen (lunch), Central, and Cena del Oro at MAP (Cusco) are among our most memorable and delicious meals of all time.

Biggest disappointments? Dinner by Heston Blumenthal, St John's London, Steirereck, Sepia Sydney, minibar DC (wine pours), Marcus, Hajime (worst service), Eleven Madison Park, Cosme (lunch).

I feel like my personal ratings would be more inline with Michelin than Pellegrino's list. For example, Chef's Table at BF is one of my faves of all time, and yet it's only at #69 . I also didn't love EMP, and am surprised to see it still hanging on at #4 . Nevertheless, I'm still going to check out Pujol (#13) and Quintonil (#11) on my next trip to Mexico City.

We had very good dinners at both Pujol and Quintonil--though I actually preferred Biko, which now is closed.

I don't take any rankings as literally accurate, instead preferring to think of broad categories of excellence. No. 5 and No. 48 can be comparably good, just as No. 3 and No. 86; it's always relative. Geranium was one of the most impressive dinners I ever had, and it was ranked #48 and had only 2 stars at the time. Now it's ranked higher by both Pellegrino and Michelin. Perhaps the rankings now of Geranium are more reflective of reality than they were back then? Who can say. Either way, Geranium likely is just as good today as it was when I dined there, despite its ranking and star count being different.

That's why I don't care much about the difference between 2 and 3 Michelin stars (looking at you, Atelier Crenn, which deserves 3 to me) and don't care much about the relative ranking on lists like Pellegrino (looking at you, Dinner by Heston Blumenthal and St Johns, which were horrible). More like Michelin stars denote broad categories of excellence, with many restaurants being considered comparable in terms of quality. Even so, people always will have their favorites and preferences, and different scenarios can result in people having varying opinions on the same restaurant at different times.

I like St John but I honestly don't think it is aiming at the heights it's been hurled up to mainly because it was pretty influential amongst chefs and foodies and got a huge amount of attention, it's straightforward nose to tail eating. The star is I think one of the generous ones Michelin gives for places which are influential and I'd put Gavroche's 2, Arzak's 3, Bocuse's 3 and I hear Waterside Inn's 3 is a touch bemusing these days too.

50 best just has some nuts things in there for me, Gaggan at no.5 I cannot understand - and I liked it and thought it was fun - but no way top ten or perhaps even top 30 material for me. Actually the place oppposite Gaggan, Gaa, I think could give it a run for its money as it has improved a lot recently. I also liked Mugaritz but nowhere near enough to put it higher than Azurmendi or Beresategui (which wasn't in the top 50). Arzak I loved first time in the early 00's but last time a couple years back I felt Michelin were being very kind.

Weirdly enough I was left a bit cold by Meadowood - there seemed to be a huge amount of work for the impact on the plate, A potato in beeswax dish and a chicken dish I was pretty underwhelmed by and across the tasting menu, there were too many thuds and not enough "wows" to convince me. I agree Crenn is special and I always look to see if she's nailed a third star every year.

Anyway these things are highly subjective as pointed out already and it's always possible I caught them on an off or a particularly on day...not quite possible to for me to visit these places enough to take the variance of a chef waking up hungover or the seabass delivery happening to be a King of its kind on any given day :)

I've been there twice and would go back ;)

My wife thought it was a bit gimmicky but loved the food. I loved both but my wife tells me I'm sort of like a moth, attracted to shiny, bright things.

We loved Pujol, when we dined there in September, and hated Biko - didn't care for either the food or the service (pretentious and inefficient) - when we ate there on Día de los Muertos. Unfortunately, I have not been able to score a reservation at Quintonil (my trips to Mexico City are generally on relatively short notice); perhaps next time at CDMX.

My TripAdvisor reviews of Quintonil and Biko from Feb 2015 are telling. I didn't like that Quintonil had no wine pairings. Obviously, menus change and the preferences we have don't change as easily. So it's not surprising, actually, that some of us preferred one restaurant that another didn't, all while we recognize that all of these are top restaurants for the most part. (Except for Dinner by Heston Blumenthal and St John's, two of the worst Michelin/Pellegrino meals I've ever had.) Sorry, I can't find my TripAdvsior review for Pujol, which I tried on another trip.

Quintonil:
https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUser...ulf_Coast.html

Biko:
https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUser...ulf_Coast.html

Foie gras with pineapple at Biko--I still remember being blown away by how delicious it was.

(For perspective, anyone also can see the rest of my restaurant reviews from there, I presume. I was at The Test Kitch and at Saam Bazaar Beverly Hills only a month earlier in Jan 2015 and at Mikla, Guy Savoy, Coi, and Saison only a few months earlier--and at Alinea a few months before that. I was at Benu and Atelier Crenn later that year, too.)

I think I read somewhere that these Michelin/Pellegrino raters visit restaurants repeatedly to get a fair score. That's great because consistency is very important. Most of these restaurants I've only been to once or twice, so even if I didn't have a good time it's possible it was just a fluke. The only restaurant I keep going back to repeatedly is chef's table at bf (6x), and it's been consistently flawless.

I've heard that it's wonderful, but I don't go to restaurants that require a jacket. If Guy Savoy can waive the ridiculous jacket req't for me in Paris, any restaurant anywhere should be able to do so, as well IMO.

I respect the wishes of the proprietor, and would never ask for any sort of waiver, absent some very special circumstance like "the airline lost my luggage" and then still ask if it would be ok, or accept the establishment's "substitute emergency jacket" if required. Yes, "any restaurant anywhere" could do it, and patrons who expect a certain level of published, purportedly-required ambiance, could be put off.

I respect the wishes of the proprietor, too. Asking for an exception isn't at all disrespectful. (I always do so well in advance, before booking or ticket purchase or immediately afterward.)

For those that have given me an exception, I always take care to still dress very well. For those that haven't (La Pergola, Chef's Table, Le Bernardin main dining room), I simply haven't bothered to pursue the reservation or have canceled.

The most ridiculous requirement I've seen recently was Le Bernardin's, which requires that you either wear a jacket in but can take it off at the table OR will let you walk in without a jacket, give you a "lender" jacket to walk to the table, which you also don't have to wear once at the table. The St Regis concierge and I had a good laugh about such pompousness.

I've been two Alinea twice, plan to go back, and will be dining at both of the Alinea retrospective menus at Next this fall. I'm a total Achatz junky.

I'd be inclined to do the same - but the fact is there are so many places to go which don't require a jacket and/or tie that I prob will never end up going to one. Couple years back flying back from Sing - checked in a bag for once as I'd bought a load of Kavalan from Taipei for Xmas - and my bag went missing almost certainly due to tight connection at HKG. Arriving at 5am - I had a lunch reservation at the Fat Duck that afternoon (day booking at LHR Marriott to chill beforehand) - and of course I had nothing to wear but my flight outfit which was jeans, trainers, hoodie, t-shirt all of which were now a bit jaded. I did get my dining companions to stop at an M&S to buy me a new t-shirt / underwear / socks so my aroma wouldn't screw with anyone's delicately balanced palate but apart from that...yeah it wasn't great. Must say the staff at the FD treated me as if I were in black tie, got some looks from some pretty stuffy seeming diners tho. Never mind, our table was quite obviously having way more fun than theirs :)

Went back to DC's Komi (1 star) yesterday; we had been a loooong time ago, not that long after they first opened (summer 2004, IIRC; they opened in 2003). I don't really know why we took so long going back; we always said it was one of the best, and best value, tasting menus in the DC area. But there are so many other places to enjoy, too...

They surprisingly didn't get a star the first year Michelin put out a DC guide, but that was remedied this year. The service is quite solidly 1-star. I feel like there could be a bit more attention here or there, but that's always a delicate balance in not being obtrusive, either.

The food is still fantastic better than almost all the other 1-star places in DC IMHO (I'd probably give it 2-stars if I were Michelin, personally), particularly given the menu has only gone up about $25 in the past 15 years (it's $150 a head; 20% flat service charge added afterwards, but no additional tips accepted). There is no set menu for the evening, though the staff took our address to mail us (how quaint!) a menu of the evening as it was our anniversary. They are also very flexible; I know way back in 2004, my wife was full-bore vegetarian, and they were able to accomodate without batting an eye and still remain very creative (vs. the ol' Tony Bourdain "chefs love vegetarians since they charge $40 for a plate of steamed vegetables" routine that a few places still follow). She's pescatarian now (has been since about 2006), and they happy to craft a menu for her--I did note that when making the reservation, but they also asked for any allergies or even just dislikes when we arrived.

I believe the total meal was around 13-14 "courses." There were several bite-sized amuse bouche to start, with a grilled watermelon that looked more like tuna a real highlight. Another very nice amuse bouche was a baked date filled with mascarpone and topped with large salt grains; this was my wife's favorite, though I think it actually needed more salt to balance the sweetness and the gooey mascarpone texture. My favorite appetizer was diced Hokkaido scallops in a homemade buttermilk with green harissa. There was one appetizer where the base for mine was foie gras, and my wife's was identical but used a hummus base. That was actually a dish I thought fell short, as the crunchy, sesame-heavy top layer overpowered the foie gras, and it's tough to overpower foie gras (and yes, the hummus was better IMHO, if suffering from the same shortcoming to a degree). Pasta course was very good, with homemade rolled pasta in a black pepper sauce, but Rose's Luxury's pastas are IMHO a notch above Komi's.

The mains were absolutely stupendous. There was a shared fish shoulder (I missed the variety--could have been mackerel; I'll see when we get the menu in the post), seasoned with their own five-spice blend, and every single bite was different. I could have licked the bones; there was a perfect cut of darker, oilier meat and flaky, whiter flesh, with crisped skin and then a different bit of the spice in every bite. The second main was a plate of pitas with pickled peppers, tzatziki, and romesco sauce; my wife received an assortment of vegetables and a seared fish, while I got a huge hunk of crispy bone-on meat (LOL, missed what it was--I assumed lamb given the background story of Chef Johnny Monis basing it on basic comfort fare he and fellow foodies would enjoy when he travels back to Greece, but my wife swears they said it was duck--that was one heck of a slab of duck leg if so, and yes, it was so tender & fall-apart that I could mix up lamb and duck if she's right), both of us encouraged to try different combinations and make gyro-style sandwiches. (More pitas and sauces offered as needed--but we were stuffed to the gills by that point.) My wife's fish as part of that main was delicious as well.

Desserts included a gelato with crispy fried beets (surprisingly good, with just enough earthiness to balance the sweetness) as well as a chocolate tart with a salty crust (wish I could do it better justice--the crust was like chocolate graham cracker crumbs, caramel, butter, and large-grained salt). Petit fours followed, with and served with coffee (an added charge--why is it that more restaurants don't include the coffee gratis unless it's something like Finca Esmeralda Especial Gesha?) was a passionfruit brittle that was wonderful, with a biscotti-like texture that dissolved with sugary goodness in the mouth (though my wife said she loved it because it wasn't too sweet!).

We went with a bottle of wine rather than the pairings. We wanted something we could just savor throughout the meal without worrying about which wine came next, and I figure we spent a similar amount as we would on the pairings.

Total bill was actually close to what we paid at 2-star Pineapple & Pearls for our prior anniversary (!), but today that comparison wouldn't be valid, as the latter has gone up significantly in price this year (up to $325 now, though that's inclusive of alcohol pairings and gratuity). If one didn't have alcohol, I feel it would be a steal at ~$180 all-in per head. My wife enjoyed dinner so much she requested we make it our regular anniversary spot, but I said, "Let's just make it a deal to come back more often than once a year, and try somewhere new each anniversary."

The only thing I dislike about the place is their no-photos-of-food policy; I'm a food pornie, so that's disappointing, but I hey, it's their space, their rules. And I'd hate to have people's phone flashes going off throughout the meal like they do at some places.

I'll update with the actual course list when we get it.


We've been meaning to go back to San Sebastian to try Arzak. Loved Beresategui; the service and food both were absolutely 3-star. Maybe in another year or two when we bubble Spain back up on our fall itinerary...


Yes, they are supposed to make multiple visits (and IIRC have multiple evaluators visit). Consistently having great food (and a menu that changes, I'd add) and service is very important. I'd hate to spend hundreds of dollars on a meal if it's something that on one night is blah and another is out of this world, playing the lottery as to which I'd get.

As I said before everyone is free to visit a restaurant or not. I always loved my "freedom" so I generally hate if someone tells me what I have to wear. If I "loose" my Jacket (fortunately my lagguage never got lost) I´m sure I would find another one;)

Went to Blue Duck Tavern (1-star) in DC for brunch yesterday with some friends. I've been there for dinner previously, so I was intrigued to try their brunch. The brunch menu is actually pretty nice, with several of the same starters as you get at lunch and dinner, and mains more tailored to brunch (e.g. duck waffles, french toast, etc.); however, the prices are also very similar to the lunch & dinner ones (e.g. $15-$20 for starters, upper-$20s-to-mid-$30s for mains). Food was very good; the service, as seems to be the case at Blue Duck, was spotty (with long waits for drinks, indifferent staff, etc.). Yeah, it's 2pm on a Saturday, and probably people are thinking about the end of the shift, but come on; you're still on the clock. They definitely need to improve the service if they want to chase a second star. Overall, still a good value, given you can leave absolutely stuffed for $50-70 per head.

Anyway, I decided to stick to starters & sides despite the temptation of some of the mains, as I wanted to try some dessert, too, so this is a fairly brief set of items. I had the roasted bone marrow, a side of cheese grits (no photo; it was a bowl of grits), and shared a couple of rather nice desserts.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...e606929888.jpg

Roasted bone marrow, a standby at Blue Duck. This time, it was served with bourbon butter and pretzel crumbles with roasted garlic. Tasty and quite filling, as usual. I do prefer when they season it a bit more strongly (the bourbon butter was too subtle), but smearing the roasted garlic atop each slice of toast did give plenty of flavor.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...698a9f142a.jpg

My wife got the avocado toast despite being a generation older than the stereotypical audience for that dish. She said it was pretty tasty, which for a nearly-$20 starter, I hope it was.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...4ae34e42f0.jpg

Dessert #1 : Meyer lemon castella served with hibiscus ganache, cherry blossom frozen yogurt, and rhubarb. This was pretty decent, with the textures working well together (including the dense sponge cake with the rhubarb--preserved?--and with the crunch of the merengues), and the flavors were nice. I didn't do a good job of getting the hibiscus ganache in the shot, but really, the cherry blossom frozen yogurt was the better accompaniment for each bite.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...a159d88d9b.jpg

Dessert #2 : Coconut tapioca with carrot cake, pineapple, allspice sorbet, curried cashews, and saffron. This was really nice, with all the flavors and textures working together. I don't think I'd like just the tapioca, but with everything else.... it was great, particularly with the allspice sorbet and carrot cake bites. One of our friends lamented that she wasn't able to get a 2nd one of these to go for dinner.

This sounds about right. I understand it's the reason Achatz's Next here in Chicago will never get a star. Because he completely revamps the theme, menu, concept, and even the decor every few months, there's no way to judge the consistency factor. Not sure if that's 100% true, but it's what I've heard from those in the industry.

This is true - the format of Next having 3 different menus a year doesn't fit the Michelin "model". I love the variety it offers.

Regarding the questions about Alinea - yes, I would go back. But I can only afford that level of meal every so often, and there are still many other places I want to try! The food tasted great, although there were a couple misses for me, as I expect there would be for everyone given personal tastes.

Lastly, a totally unrelated question. I am spending a week in London and Paris in September, and looking to hit one 2-3* place total. Any recommendations given that the plan is to only go to one? I'd imagine Paris is probably better but I'm looking for expert opinion here!

Agreed, Paris offers more choice. For London I would also add my current faves of Claude Bosi and Hedone.

I enjoyed Ledbury. My favorite places in London though are St. John and Chutney Mary, though not starred. St. John has been in various places on the San Pelligrino list over the years, however.

The Ninth has been one of the starred restaurants I’ve enjoyed the most in London in recent years. It has only one star though.

What's all this fuss about a jacket? Is it really that much hassle to wear one? As for the reason, it's one way of ensuring that people consider what they're wearing when they visit a special place. Some of you may be wearing perfectly tidy clothes and this rule isn't really for you - it's for all the uncivilised and inconsiderate people who show up in torn shorts and dirty sneakers.

Food at Blue Duck Tavern looks (again) very nice. It never worked out for me so far, to be honest my last visit to NYC is much too long ago.

Depends on your liking. In average I enjoyed restaurants in London more than in Paris. I would go for Ledbury. But as I said, I will be relative exclusive with this opinion at this forum. Nevertheless both cities offers great options, with nearly double prices in Paris if this is relevant for you.

I liked Hedone. Comfortable, not overly formal. It's not a restaurant that challenges the senses with forward-thinking, but the flavors from each dish were superb. It's the only London restaurant I visit regularly.

I find wearing a coat while dining cumbersome and makes the experience less enjoyable. My problem has always been feeling warm when I sit at a table for too long--and now that I've added some cellular insulation--it's even worse.

But I also don't try to break rules or make exceptions for the sake of other diners who enjoy dining in style--I just seek other places that don't require it.

Sorry, I misread your post initially. I would also say Paris and recommend either Pierre Gagnaire or Arpege.

Not a big fan, even if I don´t eat meat so I would be the logical choice.

Going soon to "Le Coucou" in NYC (1 Michelin *), heard great things about the French food there

I don't think Le Coucou ever got that Michelin Star. And I fully agree with that snub. While the food was solidly good (not amazing), the service was atrocious when I last visited. Seating 30 mins after reservation time without any apology or recovery. Waitress was also very slow and not knowledgeable about the dishes. Due to their popularity, they pack the dining room to the brim; you're about 3 inches away from the next table.

Not a very pleasant dining experience overall. Tasty veal tongue and sweetbreads though!

Thanks for all of the helpful advice. I'm leaning towards checking out more of the interesting non * places in London, like St John and Chutney Mary, and then hitting Astrance in Paris.

Went to Parachute in Chicago for an excellent meal - however I'd recommend ordering a la carte instead of the tasting menu, because the tasting menu doesn't get you anything that isn't on the regular menu - so just pick the dishes that sound best to you. Highlights were the potato bread and the smoked tofu skins.

Michelin Plate, not a Michelin :-:.

We've been there for brunch and loved the foie toast. Haven't made it for dinner yet.