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Sadly, a 20% fixed "service surcharge" is becoming the norm in SF and I'm talking fine dining establishments (Michelin 3*).
The small print says something to the effect of "if you disagree let us know and we will remove it". AFAIK the 20% is calculated on the entire bill inclusive of CA taxes and 4% SF mandate. I personally find it an abominable practice. First of all, I don't give diddly squat of how the restaurant owner apportions his/her receipts. When I go to my dentist he doesn't itemize the bill "for my dental assistant, for utilities bill, etc." It would be much more honest if they simply jacked up prices, which are already high and oftentimes come has a single charge "$325 Chef's tasting menu". Dear Chef, just charge $400 and save me the implied stories about the orphans and health care for all. I guess the majority of the SF well-to-do crowd feels a little less hypocritical when they can think that they just dropped half a grand on a meal, but some of it went to the waiting staff and to the State. Secondly, portable card readers are ok, but they put some pressure in selecting the correct tip on the fly, with the waiter there looking. From that point of view I really prefer the old paper receipt where I can take my time and enjoy a little more privacy. |
So much hating of capitalism.
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Societal Obligation? 👎
Originally Posted by gaobest
(Post 31622253)
Was this Manresa??
ive not seen the 25% option but I’ve seen 10% at La Boulangerie (formerly La Boulange, which SBUX bought ages ago), and I want to tell them to ditch that 10% option. Usa is a tip society. California is a 4% or 5% health surcharge state. It’s not cheap but when we choose to dine out, it includes the societal obligation to tip, usually with giving that CC to a staffer. |
Tax Strategy!
Originally Posted by BamaVol
(Post 31729743)
I think actually that started in the early 70's after the oil embargo led to rising energy costs. Businesses started adding energy surcharges to their invoices. Today, look at cruise fares, air fares, cell phone bills cable TV bills. Buy a set of tires or a car battery. I could go on. Many businesses have gone to a pricing model that includes multiple additions. I'm no less irritated than you. But it's really all over the place and has been for almost 50 years.
Thus this whole scenario is truly a multiple edged sword of transparency, greed, blame sharing/finger pointing and yes, even customer benefit in some cases. |
Originally Posted by MimiB22
(Post 31728273)
I hate tipping, but of course do it. It was interesting in New Zealand, where locals practically begged us not to tip wait staff as it wasn't the custom and they didn't want it established.
Originally Posted by melmike
(Post 31729731)
Yep, laughing here in Australia too, at the s-l-I-w acceptance of technology. We only use hand held readers, tap and go. Also can adjust the $ value of a tip. OR... sometimes just pay the bill and hand the waiter a cash tip. Agree tho, 25% is madness
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SAINTS: There is a tax advantage for the restaurant to do it the way they are.
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Originally Posted by gaobest
(Post 31622253)
Was this Manresa??
ive not seen the 25% option but I’ve seen 10% at La Boulangerie (formerly La Boulange, which SBUX bought ages ago), and I want to tell them to ditch that 10% option. Usa is a tip society. California is a 4% or 5% health surcharge state. It’s not cheap but when we choose to dine out, it includes the societal obligation to tip, usually with giving that CC to a staffer. |
Originally Posted by midorosan
(Post 31742263)
What precisely is a societal obligation to tip? Surely the obligation lies with the restaurant to pay its staff a proper wage, tipping is demeaning to both parties and is one reason I avoid travelling to the US.
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Originally Posted by knownothing
(Post 31743276)
So you prefer the tip to be built in. But what if you get lousy service? Do you subtract it?
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Originally Posted by kipper
(Post 31730185)
That one, I don't, but just on meals, my explanation stands. I'm paying for the experience and the time.
Originally Posted by attart
(Post 31729330)
Apparently it's not just restaurants.
I recently took a taxi from Denver International into the city of Denver and when I went to sign the receipt, the LOWEST choice for a tip amount was 25%. I was so irritated I almost didn't leave a tip, but ended up putting in a lower dollar amount. I understand if you had a pleasant conversation with the driver as that is not mandated by the terms of service. Or the driver gave you the history of the city and places to visit while taking you from the airport to your hotel. But for daily rides? I select zero for tip in taxis in most cases. And that includes Uber/Lyft tipping nonsense.
Originally Posted by GadgetFreak
(Post 31737451)
So much hating of capitalism.
Originally Posted by knownothing
(Post 31743276)
So you prefer the tip to be built in. But what if you get lousy service? Do you subtract it?
If you do get lousy service you have two options. If you like the place, you can speak to the server and/or the manager and explain how the service can be improved next time you come back. If you don't care, you just don't go back to that place which is in and of itself an incentive for the establishment provide a good experience, not just good food OR a good service. You don't tip at the post office or in fact your mail man or woman, you don't tip at the grocery store, you don't even tip the person who sweeps your street or fixes stuff around your rented apartment. You pay agreed upon rate and move on. Why are servers, bartenders, cabbies, hairdressers, masseuses (the list goes on) different? |
Originally Posted by homa2001
(Post 31757414)
So bringing a $10 pasta disk takes less effort than a $30 steak at the same restaurant? What? Percentage based tipping makes absolutely zero sense.
For the love of God, please, don't tip in taxis for a rudimentary uneventful ride. You are paying a fare that includes livery from origin to destination without incidents. What are you tipping for? I understand if you had a pleasant conversation with the driver as that is not mandated by the terms of service. Or the driver gave you the history of the city and places to visit while taking you from the airport to your hotel. But for daily rides? I select zero for tip in taxis in most cases. And that includes Uber/Lyft tipping nonsense. Huh? What are you even replying to? Also, how is capitalism helping here? It's not like you bring your own server with you or select one from the pool? It's not an open market once you sat down. I already addressed that. You wouldn't leave 20% if your food sucked just because it was brought to you expeditiously. So why does this work in reverse? If you do get lousy service you have two options. If you like the place, you can speak to the server and/or the manager and explain how the service can be improved next time you come back. If you don't care, you just don't go back to that place which is in and of itself an incentive for the establishment provide a good experience, not just good food OR a good service. You don't tip at the post office or in fact your mail man or woman, you don't tip at the grocery store, you don't even tip the person who sweeps your street or fixes stuff around your rented apartment. You pay agreed upon rate and move on. Why are servers, bartenders, cabbies, hairdressers, masseuses (the list goes on) different? |
Originally Posted by homa2001
(Post 31757414)
So bringing a $10 pasta disk takes less effort than a $30 steak at the same restaurant? What? Percentage based tipping makes absolutely zero sense.
For the love of God, please, don't tip in taxis for a rudimentary uneventful ride. You are paying a fare that includes livery from origin to destination without incidents. What are you tipping for? I understand if you had a pleasant conversation with the driver as that is not mandated by the terms of service. Or the driver gave you the history of the city and places to visit while taking you from the airport to your hotel. But for daily rides? I select zero for tip in taxis in most cases. And that includes Uber/Lyft tipping nonsense. Huh? What are you even replying to? Also, how is capitalism helping here? It's not like you bring your own server with you or select one from the pool? It's not an open market once you sat down. I already addressed that. You wouldn't leave 20% if your food sucked just because it was brought to you expeditiously. So why does this work in reverse? If you do get lousy service you have two options. If you like the place, you can speak to the server and/or the manager and explain how the service can be improved next time you come back. If you don't care, you just don't go back to that place which is in and of itself an incentive for the establishment provide a good experience, not just good food OR a good service. You don't tip at the post office or in fact your mail man or woman, you don't tip at the grocery store, you don't even tip the person who sweeps your street or fixes stuff around your rented apartment. You pay agreed upon rate and move on. Why are servers, bartenders, cabbies, hairdressers, masseuses (the list goes on) different? As far as tipping mail people, garbage people, etc., I leave a present for my mail person at Christmas, and usually leave something for the garbage people as well. It's called being generous and appreciative.
Originally Posted by knownothing
(Post 31757439)
actiually i think a lot of us do "tip" the mailman / garbage men / handy men by a Christmas gift
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Originally Posted by kipper
(Post 31757850)
A $10 plate of pasta usually takes less work than a $30 steak, and your tip doesn't go just to the server. They usually have to tip out bus people, bartenders, and in some restaurants, now, kitchen staff. Cooking a steak takes more effort than a plate of pasta or a pizza, because people are usually very particular with their steaks.
As far as tipping mail people, garbage people, etc., I leave a present for my mail person at Christmas, and usually leave something for the garbage people as well. It's called being generous and appreciative. This. Tipping based on the cost of the meal/service makes no sense. |
Originally Posted by corky
(Post 31759430)
The server is not cooking the steak. In fact the server might be doing more with the $10 plate of pasta by having to grate cheese over it while the $30 steak just gets set down in front of you. It does not take more work/effort to serve an expensive dish than it does to serve a cheap dish. Why should the server get a bigger tip on setting down a plate of shrimp than a plate of chicken? Or opening a $100 bottle of wine vs a $30 bottle of wine?
Tipping based on the cost of the meal/service makes no sense. |
Originally Posted by kipper
(Post 31757850)
A $10 plate of pasta usually takes less work than a $30 steak, and your tip doesn't go just to the server.
But there's still a strange line of thought in this thread. Do people really feel they're tipping a server for carrying a plate of food from the kitchen to the table? Are they tipping for things like how fast the food comes, etc? IMO, those are the wrong things to base a tip on. A server, even in a low-end restaurant, is a kind of guide to your dining experience. Their job is to make sure you're having a good experience. That includes greeting you, explaining the menu (if necessary) and any specials, offering suggestions, checking in to make sure things are good and you have what you need, etc. They need to understand the menu so they can answer any questions customers have about preparation or ingredients. It's also their responsibility to make sure your order is accurate, as it goes into and comes out of the kitchen. It's not about plopping a plate of pasta or a steak down in front of you. I'm pretty sure the restaurant industry could train monkeys to do that -- and they work for bananas. Tip based on the experience, not for simply receiving your food. And I'm still in the camp that adequate service receives 15%. Poor service receives less, and excellent service receives more. I'm sure a lot of people disagree with those numbers, and that's ok with me. |
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