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Originally Posted by Hank Moody
(Post 31729270)
My friction point is the 4% surcharge. Since when does the price of an item not include all components of business overhead? Restaurant owners should "man-up" and adjust retail prices to cover these costs rather than hiding them into the fine print at the bottom of the menu.
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Originally Posted by Hank Moody
(Post 31729270)
My friction point is the 4% surcharge.
They don't like it, I suspect. But, it's between them, the restaurant and those who levy these taxes. |
Originally Posted by HarryHolden68
(Post 31729445)
Each to their own. When I go out
1. I do not want to be fawned over 2. I do not want to be the servers new best friend 3. I do not want to share my day with them 4. I do not expect to be patronised with "Perfect... Great choice.... or Great" when I order Louis XV - in Monte Carlo Plaza Athenee in Paris His staff do not hover but sense when your wine or water need refilling! Best service I have ever had. Very friendly (esp the lunch crew but the plaza no longer does lunch) |
Originally Posted by kipper
(Post 31728561)
You pay more in a tip at an establishment that charges more because, theoretically, you are paying for a better experience. The server should be more attentive, there are more courses, meals take longer, etc.
Yep - that's a common justification. Errr ... how do explain the difference in tip expected at the same establishment served by the same experienced waiter when one has bought a $500 bottle of wine instead of the $50 one. |
Service with a smile
I started coming to the states 30+ years ago. It seemed everywhere I went Service was the top priority, nothing to much trouble, always service with a smile. Happy to leave a tip, rule of thumb was tip twice as much as the Tax. Move the clock forward 15yrs and now I live in the States. It seems the greed culture has taken over, owners squeezing their staff to get the extra Dime out of them. Consequently the good Servers have moved on to other places and now the only ones left are here for a paycheck only, not much pride in their work, let's do as little as possible for a much as we can get and expect a tip for doing it.
One restaurant I went to in CA had a note on the bottom of the menu "4% added to help staff with a living wage". How nice of the restaurant owner to help his/her staff from living in a cardboard box under a bridge somewhere. I noted this on Yelp, the reply was to help with Health Insurance. Now a restaurant doesn't pay health insurance unless you work 30+ hours, as most servers are students you know that's not the case, so management benefit from this 4%. 25% as a tip is a bit steep, usually 10-20% would be a norm, with poor service coming in at a Zero. |
Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
(Post 31729376)
That seems like such a stupid move by the server in that of course the customer would immediately notice the card not being returned and call the credit card company to cancel the card, perhaps calling the police too or at least the manager/owner of the restaurant. If it were an AmEx card, there would be a good chance of AmEx sending investigators to the restaurant.
Originally Posted by NC Flyer
(Post 31730068)
Yep - that's a common justification. Errr ... how do explain the difference in tip expected at the same establishment served by the same experienced waiter when one has bought a $500 bottle of wine instead of the $50 one.
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So, I tend to see 15-20% as a reasonable norm. I am rather bothered by the increasing "nudge" on tipping...I've noticed an upwards push on the "suggested tips" from 15/18/20 to 18/20/22 to 20/22/25. I actually ran into some taxis where the prompt was 20/25/30, which I found insulting.
Also, some terminals only seem to allow you to do a custom percentage (I usually try to "round off" with my tips) rather than a custom dollar amount. An issue with that in at least one taxi resulted in a zero tip not because I wanted to stiff the driver but because the system acted up. As a rule, I will admit, I'm to the point that with car services I generally don't tip anymore. There are exceptions (e.g. "I need to make my train" and the driver makes it happen) but they are, well, exceptions. I think I generally draw the line at 18/20/22...anything "pushing" beyond that is an insult to the customer. And, per above, any "service charge" which is levied lands as a tip in my book. |
Originally Posted by HarryHolden68
(Post 31729445)
Each to their own. When I go out
1. I do not want to be fawned over 2. I do not want to be the servers new best friend 3. I do not want to share my day with them 4. I do not expect to be patronised with "Perfect... Great choice.... or Great" when I order |
Originally Posted by BJH100
(Post 31728767)
Living the Bay Area during the apogee years, I was socialized by my friends to leave 20 per cent on top of
subsidizing their health care with another charge. I moved to Portugal several years ago after living in Zurich and wow. Now if I leave 5 Euro on a 40 Euro for two person dinner Ill hear wait staff whisper he isn’t British he has to be American. Why should people enter into a salary sharing agreement with management? Mandate a living wage and then tip a bit for outstanding service. The US system will never end unless pressure is applied. Another factor in some Euro zone countries like Portugal wages are taxed on first euro earned, not like the US where income must approach 22-24 k before even a dollar is taxed. Maybe then you wouldn’t have to subsidize their healthcare. |
To me, it is very simple. It's your money, spend it how you seem fit. Tipping is a personal choice, do it if you want to, don't if you don't want to. It is my opinion that those people who feel it is necessary to do so are worried what other people think about them. I don't worry about what other people think about me, as I probably will only see them that one time. I don't go out to restaurants often, so I don't know any server personally, but I feel if someone does a good job serving my needs in the restaurant, I will tip them accordingly.
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Originally Posted by HarryHolden68
(Post 31729445)
Each to their own. When I go out
1. I do not want to be fawned over 2. I do not want to be the servers new best friend 3. I do not want to share my day with them 4. I do not expect to be patronised with "Perfect... Great choice.... or Great" when I order I do want them to interact minimally to do the basic task they are charged with. Having the server act like an over excited Labrador puppy wanting to be loved in order to extort wages from me is just excruciating. So uncool as I know the instant i walk out, I am nobody to them. Sucking up to my ego just to get a wage is nothing short of legalised prostitution. I would tip far more to the server who reads my intentions than I would to one who forces their personality on me and my party.
Originally Posted by Berniecfc
(Post 31730182)
I started coming to the states 30+ years ago. It seemed everywhere I went Service was the top priority, nothing to much trouble, always service with a smile. Happy to leave a tip, rule of thumb was tip twice as much as the Tax. Move the clock forward 15yrs and now I live in the States. It seems the greed culture has taken over, owners squeezing their staff to get the extra Dime out of them. Consequently the good Servers have moved on to other places and now the only ones left are here for a paycheck only, not much pride in their work, let's do as little as possible for a much as we can get and expect a tip for doing it.
Originally Posted by GUWonder
(Post 31731677)
While federal income tax may not end up due at low income levels in the US, don't be so sure that the tax for contributing to the US social security system doesn't begin from the employee's first employer-reported dollar of income. Employers shifting the cost of labor to the clients via tipping is a systematic problem that suits employers at the expense of the employees, of the customers and especially at the public at large.
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I thought it was a bribe to ensure that your food or drink won't be messed with if you return.
I dread more about which overly friendly, nosy, coddling waiter I will get than the suggested tip boxes creeping up amounts. Tipping is already uncomfortable and now you made it even more so with your over the top friendliness. I stopped tipping all together. |
Random thoughts on tipping
If a restaurant raised it's prices to encompass the increase in wages, a certain amount of the dining public would look at it as too expensive to eat there on a regular basis. What percentage that would be would determine if the restaurant survives.
The note of "20% across the board" would not be too abhorrent unless that also included bottles of wine etc... a $250 bottle becoming $300 or worse a $500 one now costs $600! As far as differences in tipping culture, I would follow the when in Rome model. You can ..... about it but you better watch out for the dog poop while in Paris. How about the peeing planters in Paris? Vive La difference! I guess some of this thought is derived from working at some fairly high end restaurants in DC while in school there and making a decent amount but also dealing with a fair amount of tourist diners who I honestly have to say, we approached with trepidation when it came to tipping. |
Originally Posted by twon
(Post 31735578)
I guess some of this thought is derived from working at some fairly high end restaurants in DC while in school there and making a decent amount but also dealing with a fair amount of tourist diners who I honestly have to say, we approached with trepidation when it came to tipping.
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What form did your approach to "tourist" diners take? And I assume you mean foreigners or is it people from elsewhere in the US? Or both?
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