Exactly. Sometimes, sure, but certainly not always. Even in "good" stores, I have seen the opposite. I had a salesperson at B&H Camera and Video talk me out of buying a $400 plus pair of binoculars (Leica) because he asked me what I wanted them for. When I told him he told me that a pair of Nikons for less than $100 were better for what I wanted and explained why, and he had them both in stock. I have bought a lot of stuff from them since then because of that trust. Same in restaurants.

+1

Like many other exchanges in every day life, you make a snap judgment on whether or not to trust someone.

I try to be somewhat specific when asking for a recommendation and I've generally been happy with the results. I'm never shy about mentioning budget if appropriate (it doesn't matter if the 'best' wine in the house is a bargain at $300/bottle, it's not in my budget).

Completely agree. The sales process is dynamic. Just because I ask "what do you recommend?" doesn't mean that's the end of the discussion. If the recommendation is something that's out of my budget, I say that. If it's based on a function or feature I don't need, I say that.

Same with food recommendations.

Sure there are the exceptions to the rule. But generally speaking when someone's income is commission based, they will recommend the expensive item over the cheap item.

Do a little experiment. Next 10 times you dine out, ask what do you recommend. Then look at where in the cheap-expensive line the recommendation falls. I'll bet good money 8/10 times it will be in the top 25%.

We'll agree to disagree. This has not been my experience. I frequently ask for recommendations on wine, entrees, electronics, household goods, appliances, etc. My question has almost always been met with more questions. "What flavors do you like?" "What have you tried that you liked before?" "What features are important to you?" "How big is the room where the TV is going?" "How big is your yard?" THOSE are the kinds of questions that should be asked before someone gives a recommendation. And it's so easy to challenge someone when they simply "recommend" the most expensive item. "Really? It's the most expensive one. It's THAT good? Why? How does it compare to X, which is $Y cheaper?" Push back a little if you think it's a BS recommendation.

Maybe I just shop/eat/drink at establishments that offer better service. Maybe I'm just lucky. But I don't think servers immediately jump to the most expensive item on the menu (or even one of the most expensive items). Restaurants thrive on repeat guests and referrals. Good servers don't jeopardize that.

Any sensible waiter would prefer a 25% tip from a customer enjoying his recommendation of the lower-priced meal to a 10% tip from a customer who did not like the higher-priced meal.

Exactly. And many really good places charge the same for all or most items. But in any case I would be stunned at a high end place, Michelin starred for instance, up selling like that.

You must look like you're ready to be shorn. I've seldom had that kind
of problem, especially in the last 40 years; I have the advantage of
looking poorer than I am, though.

What I hate hate hate is when someone I'm with asks, which would
you choose between the entrecote bordelaise and the chicken kiev?
Which makes the waiter get that dollar sign look.

IMO you can tell by the interaction with the server whether his/her recommendation are earnest, or merely passing off the more popular dish.

i.e., ask at quality restaurants, and dont even bother at touristed joints or a run of the mill restaurant.

what i hate is "mmm... they're both good" or "well... one's lamb and one's beef". yes, thanks for the clarification--i can read, but when i ask for suggestion, i am truly ambivalent am inviting you to make that virtually-coinflip, binary, decision for me....


...and over the years, ive really come to appreciate *fine service*. not talking the stuffy service with 8 servers coming to your table to synchronously open the serving tray for all the guests (looking at you, waterside inn)..... but smart, discreet waitstaff that balance friendliness, assertiveness, and self-dignity. (a bit of gemutlichkeit/hygge for the europeans.) this quality in a server really is an art

I think you're over-complicating what is essentially a straightforward job.
Welcome diners,hand out menues and wine-list,ask if they'd like a drink,return after a few minutes to take their order and answer any queries,deliver food to tables,enquire after a few minutes if everything is okay,dessert,coffee and deliver check at the appropriate time.
If a server can do that politely and efficiently without feeling the urge to enlighten me with their life story/domestic problems/career prospects I'm a happy camper.
It's not an art form that requires Zen-like abilities to maintain self-dignity - it's facilitating delivery of food from kitchen to diner for adequate recompense.

You're suggesting the jobs of the waitstaff at Appleby's and the waitstaff at Le Bernardin are the same. They're not, not remotely.

i wouldn't characterize what you described as "good service". thats just perfunctory service you can expect at an Applebees.

perhaps you may have heard, notably in france, the maitre d is a career position, not just a gig for college students to do during summers.

while the idea of a professional waitstaff might be a little antiquated, and in no way do i think extensive hospitality training is requisite to deliver "good service"..... there is clearly a refinement that sets tiered differentiation between this Applebees service and good service. and you'll know it when you see it.

ill relate it to flying in international F cabins. the soft service is what sets apart United or American from Swiss or British Airways. the former will take your coat, stow your luggage, smile and take your meal orders. (and for many people, this is the definition of perfect service). the latter will anticipate your needs, and subtly enhance the flying experience, without necessary doing it in a subservient way (a la Thai Airways)

Okay,enlighten me as to how they're different.


It reads to me like you're confusing good service with having your ego stroked.
To suggest there's a pecking order among servers with the smarmiest at the top and those who deliver good service in a cheerful,efficient manner as being somewhere below this is nonsense.
Unless,of course,you subscribe to the Frazier Crane school of dining out.
As for French waiters being the best in the world ... :rolleyes:

you misunderstood every single one of my point.

the french do not lay claim to having the best waiters in the world (noone does, actually), but haute gastronomy is very much a french institution.

im actually uncomfortable with thai staff and attendants coming up every 10 minutes minutes, kneeling down, to offer me a moistened towel. or having dining staff hover over me, whether by a bubbly teenager girl at a 20$ place or a someone in a bowtie offering 150$ prixe fix menu.

a GOOD and smart server reads the diners moods -- in a rush? wants to be left alone? knows what he/she wants? hungry and inquisitive? -- and caters accordingly. they read tone, body language, demeanor.


theres are different levels of service. in a restaurant - in a hotel - on an airplane. whether you choose to recognize their existence is, of course, entirely your own prerogative,.........

And a server in Applebees can't do this ?
Of course they can, which is exactly my point that good service in what you call a " fine dining " establishment isn't necessarily any better and can often be far worse than a neighbourhood restaurant.
I've broken bread in some of the most expensive restaurants around and they're not all up to scratch when it comes to service.