I am going on vacation to the US next month and I was wondering what happens in this situation .

What do you do about the tip if the food was poor but the service was great , do you still leave a good tip or reduce it ?

My definition of great service would include removing poorly prepared food with no fuss and replacing it with something prepared properly.

If you mean that the food was priced very inexpensively and had taste/quality to match, but the service was much finer than such prices normally warrant, then it's perfectly reasonable to tip well above 15%. I've gone up to double that when a waiter or waitress at a cheap restaurant has worked hard to meet my needs.

I never send food back , if the meal is really bad I just refuse to eat it and leave, When I was younger I worked in a few bars and restaurants , I saw what some chefs do to food that is sent back ......... and you would not want to eat it .

I hate tipping. You put on an automatic "tip", and I consider that to be equivalent to you taking my credit card and buying yourself a Christmas present. I will change it to zero and leave it that way as punishment.

one thing that troubles me as much, if not more, than automatic tipping, is tip inflation.

i can't pinpoint when it started. a customary restaurant tip is 15% of the pre-tax subtotal. but around 15 years ago, i noticed some "trendy" restaurants that included "tipping guides" that recommended 18-20%. i do not mind tipping 20% for extraordinary service beyond what i would expect for that class of restaurant (i.e., 3-star v. denny's), and usually the subtotal is higher in high-class places anyway. i happily ignored these "guides," which often tried to cover up their pretense by saying they were for foreign guests unfamiliar with US tipping customs.

(of course, there was also the long-standing custom of adding an 18% gratuity to parties of six or more. while i often saw the 18% calculated on the post-tax total, i never objected as i felt i understood the reason for the gratuity, and i'm not sure what i would accomplish anyway.)

this trend seems to have spread everywhere, to the point that 18% or 20% is often quoted as the new standard. some people even act like 15% is an insult. and i have seen people brag about tipping 25%, and perhaps even 30%. yet, so far as i know, the IRS assumes that tips, at least in the restaurant industry, to be 15% (and i have never met a server who reported their actual tips, instead of accepting the assumed 15% for their taxes).

so not only should the tip not be automatically added, it should start at 15%, subject to adjustment (+/-) based on the level of service.

Most restaurants add it on for 6 o8 or more people.

The convenience of having your tip included
 

2 points first:

1. I understand that tips have become a standard in north american culture that it now expected not only as a gift of appreciation for good service

2. I'm from LA and having been a server for my first job, i know how difficult it is to survive off Californian minimum wage, in fact, i think all californians know even with decent paying jobs. The standard among members of my household is thus 20%-25%

So number 1 is true so much so that restaurants may add a tip (for my convenience of course) or require a tip upon ordering (restaurants near G in MSP are good examples.) But this sort of practice really annoys me for many reasons

When restaurants have a policy of auto gratuity, i feel the additional tip line is quite insulting. If they automatically charge say 10%, i wont add extra up to 20-25%. I understand that others from different cultures do not comprehend our culture of tipping but this is something i dont understand either

Now for restaurants that force tip, i select the lowest possible pctg some are floored at 1% or 5%.

My question is:
Am i in the wrong for doing this or am i just a jackass? I see myself as quite gracious but i do have an obsession for good sense and sound judgement in practical matters

EDIT: i also know that restaurants that engage in this practice need to explicitly state this policy and i do have a choice with whom i decide to do business but this isnt something i exactly look out for when i go to dine and restaurants arent so excited to make sure its known either...

It is my experience auto-gratuities (AG) occur only in parties over XX people, and although my wife and I eat out frequently together and separately, we don't generally go to the places (IIIC, if I interpret correctly--kinda high $$ places) where AGing is rampant. A couple things come to mind: 1) If an AG amount matches what I was planning to give--it's a push, nothing else added; 2) If the AG is higher than I would have given in light of the service being subpar due to server's and not anothers' fault, I'll ask about the AG and mention to a manager the restaurant failed [threshold] in service and offer to pay the AG with something given for free [if mandatory], or specifically write in something less [keep receipt] and watch out for total on CC bill.; 3) I don't hold the server accountable for non-controllables [i.e., my steak is bleeding when ordered med well unless waiter faulted (ordered from memory incorrectly)]; 4) I generally don't tip more than 20% regardless unless it's a convenient round on a smaller bill [people on expense accounts, aside]; 5) I like the European model--servers are paid more and get more bennies and as a result you pay more for food, but you KNOW from the outright the price of eating since VAT is usually included [a couple Euros for above and beyond is Okay in my book]; and lastly, we're our own worst Western nightmare--we tip a lot, so people expect a lot, so restaurants 'start the process' for us. I'm a lot more vocal now, I suppose, than when younger: tips still need to be earned even by US domestic standards--somehow I don't think I'm doing a service or disservice when service is way subpar and I tip mindlessly.

I've very rarely experienced high-end places which add a gratuity for parties less than 6. I absolutely understand why restaurants do add a gratuity for larger parties and I do understand the places that do it for smaller parties in venues which cater to foreigners who may simply not know how to act in the US.

I don't think it's really a matter of preference. It's a matter of local custom. Part of travel is adopting to local custom, so it's just not a big deal.

How many different tipping threads do we need?

If you want to leave a tip, leave a tip.

If you don't want to leave a tip, don't leave a tip.

This applies if they already put in a tip or not for any additional tip.

Every thread is always going to come down to that. Tipping is a personal choice, so do what you want to do.

^ You beat me to it.

Agreed, we don't need another tipping thread. BUT...since another one is here, I wanted to share this. (Hopefully this isn't where I found it! I searched the forum on key words and didn't come up with anything.)

God I love it http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...ile_tongue.gif

I will start leaving words of encouragement and smiley faces on the receipt. Additionally I think I will insist the waiter view it in front of me, so I can see joy I am spreading.
I will probably get a few weird looks from naysayers, but they will surely be impressed when I ride my unicorn out of the restaurant.

LMAO ^

heck, if servers are demanding 20% now (15% is the proper amount for good full service, much less for buffet, but adjusted where you're sitting for hours and just ordered coffee), perhaps we should just go to the grocery store, buy and cook our food at home, and stop by the restaurant only to give the server a tip on what we would have paid.

I tip. More than I should. But that doesn't stop me from wondering why waiters working for minimum wage are America's charity case and why not the millions of others who work for minimum wage? How come they all don't get tips in order to 'survive'?

The convenience of having your tip included
 

No doubt there are working poor among minimum wage peeps; 'tipped' employees may make lower than minimum wage, however...

http://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm

The comments are quite amusing.
That's not true. They do not earn less than minimum wage. The restaurant can pay them less than minimum wage IF their tips plus their base hourly rate equal an hourly rate of minimum wage or more. If the server's tips plus base hourly rate are still less than minimum wage, the restaurant must pay a higher hourly rate, so that their hourly rate equals minimum wage.

kipper is correct. Waiters are paid less than minimum wage but if their tips do not average out to at least the state's minimum wage, then the restaurant has to pay them the difference. Hence, waiters always do earn minimum wage - with or without tips - just like the millions of other minimum wage workers I mentioned.

Also, there are a handful of states where waiters do earn the state's minimum wage regardless, California and Nevada are two that come to mind.

LOL, thanks! Can I convince you to post this over in OMNI/PR repeatedly? :D

IRS assumes 8% is the average. I didn't wait tables regularly, but during HS I would wait tables periodically and the restaurant encouraged us to just take 8% of our sales and write that down as the amount of our tips.

Edit:
Although on researching this it sounds like it's 8% on the restaurant's end, not the server's end...but if all tipped employees claimed 8% of sales as tips then the restaurant would be 8% as well. http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-...urant-Tax-Tips

I've always been a great admirer of the IRS* - one of the free world's great institutions. So if its good enough for the IRS then its good enough for me - 8% tips it is from now on.

*Except when they take 30% out of my Las Vegas Slot jackpots (and the Slot Attendant expects me to share 10% of my pre-tax good fortune with them)

may have to dispute credit card charge, if establishment threatens to call police

Never! Never! :eek: :eek:

:D

:( I had to ask! :D

Tip included in the check - US style

There are a number of places in the USA where it is common for the tip to be already included in the check. Miami beach, Orlando, and sometimes New York City, among others. I point this out because I have encountered a number who live in the USA who say it never happens there. Yes, these are places frequented by visitors from overseas, although even there my experience is that those from the US are still in the majority.

However, the credit card slip/machine is still invariably presented with an open line for "tip". Would it be ungallant to say that they hope you haven't noticed it is already in there ? Just to aid the understanding, the check for the already-added amount is often labelled with useful abbreviations such as SV CH or similar.

I was once told, when I questioned a manager about this, that it was "in case you received the best service of your life". I had to inform him that, on the occasion this does happen, it is exceedingly unlikely to be in Miami Beach ......

There was one tipping thread where people were discussing eating at counter service or fast food places to avoid having to tip, and one poster implied that was actually stealing from the waitstaff at full service restaurants.

I've only once hit an auto-tip where it wasn't for a large party AND explicitly called out on the menu, which was (surprise surprise) at a touristy place in NYC, although a relatively moderately priced one.

I complained to the waiter, who said it was policy, and asked if I wanted to talk to the manager. I didn't bother, since the precomputed amount was less than I would have tipped otherwise -- can't remember if it was 15% or 18% but amazingly, it was correctly calculated on the pretax.

If it were a place I'd have ever been likely to return to, I'd have made a stink with the manager and then tipped what I'd have been originally planning to. Since it wasn't, I didn't bother; the place was inexpensive enough that the difference was only a buck or two.

--

Speaking generally, I tip a little over 20% at inexpensive places (20% on the pretax, round up to the nearest 50c or a buck if the service was good), and use the "double the tax" rule at moderate-price ones, which comes to 16%-17.5% depending on which city I'm in around here. At expensive ones, it depends entirely on the service, but defaulting to actually calculating out 15% if the service was merely OK.

What's everyone's "minimum tip"? I generally won't tip less than $2ish (e.g. if the bill is something like $8.03, they'd get a $10 left for the bill and tip.) Not too many table-service places that cheap left, but where there are I don't feel right leaving less.

For buffet and counter-service places where you don't clear your own table but they don't take drink orders, I'll usually leave a buck (or a buck a person when there with my wife) for the guy who clears tables. Vegas/Reno buffets where they do drink orders at the table, I'll generally tip $5 for my wife and I if they're good about refills.

Frankly I don't blame them. At one of my regular haunts in midtown, foreign tourist groups (usually European) would get up after paying and walk out leaving zero nothing, nada. It happened all the time. As if it were servis compris.

Admittedly I was more attuned to it because it was a regular haunt and I'd become friendly with some of the wait staff. But I saw how hard they worked and how often they got completely stiffed.

I'm hardly one ever to defend the 'ugly american' overseas but by god if we're supposed to learn the nuances of overseas cultures (and I believe we should) is it too much to ask for a little turnabout?

So anyway. This tedious anecdote is offered in recompense for my previous post in this thread http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...ile_tongue.gif

...then it should be posted on the menu, or someplace conspicuous. Not much to ask, just as outside the US where some prices are "plus tax and service" or there's a coperta (etc) those will generally be posted.

What should be posted? That our establishment is run consistently with the norms in our society? Seems to me that only the exceptions should be noted. But it can certainly be argued that everything should be posted everywhere. Trouble is, many people run their lives according to "whateva whateva, I do what I want!"

That a mandatory tip is added to the bill.

Though the courts in New York have made it very clear that

A tip or gratuity is discretionary

and even if it's listed on the bill or wall as being mandatory or added to the bill, it won't hold up in court should they arrest the diners.

That is pretty much identical to my standard practice.

Although I can't recall the last time I went to a buffet, so I'm not sure what I typically do there. ;)

There are a few country diners here in Lancaster County, PA where you can still have a filling meal and a Coke for $6. Leaving a buck or a buck twenty just seems cheap, so as you said, I usually leave a couple.

For take-out, I typically tip about 10% rounded up, as a former coworker who had previously been a hostess at a restaurant told me that the hostesses actually do have to put in quite a bit of work to get the to-go order prepped and ready in between their normal job.

The norm is that tips are conventional, but discretionary.

The level is also highly variable; I know several older folks who still insist that 10% is the standard for normal service, and while the spread between 15% on the pretax and 20% on the after-tax total is pretty small on a small bill, it gets nontrivial as the bills get larger.

In any event, it is NOT the norm of our society to add a "mandatory" tip to the bill, or to add a service charge, except for large parties, and even there, the norm is very much to publish on the menu what the amount is (which can be anywhere between 15% and 20%) and the minimum size of party for which it is added.

If you're running a restaurant and don't like that, make it a mandatory service charge -- which you WILL have to post on the menu -- and most places you'll have to charge sales tax on it.

I am well aware of US custom with gratuities, and so, as far as I am aware, is everyone else I know from the UK who has been to the US.

However what I do NOT care for is a lecture on arrival from the waitress, when they finally turn up at the table, about how tipping is "customary" in the USA and the standard amount is 20% and ..... yadda yadda yadda. I find this panhandling for tips rude and insulting. Excuse me, but I've probably eaten out in more USA establishments than you have. The next time I get this lecture, generally delivered in school-marm patronising tones, I'm going to say that.

My point was not about the general custom (as you go on to note, lecturing people about it seems as likely to seem patronizing as to be helpful) but rather the limited range of places which add it automatically even for smaller parties in contravention of the usual standard.

I generally tip as well as the next person, but this type of stuff gets my goat.

If anyone sees fit to mar my evening with a lecture on tipping, then that's putting their tip in jeopardy then and there. As for sneaking a tip onto the bill that hasn't been disclosed on the menu - that's akin to them sticking their hand in my pocket and seeing if I notice, so will result in a zero tip. I will not stand for this.

To the English who are insulted that waiters and waitresses have mentioned the US tipping customs, you should look at your countrymen. Too many waitstaff have been stiffed by those with "funny accents" like yours. In fact, I have heard that restaurants in Times Square, which are filled with European tourists, are adding tips to all bills.

Now you can say the US tipping custom is dumb, ineffective, etc. fine, but the simple fact is that if you are visiting another country you need to abide by the customs of that country, end of story.

Urrr no. I control my own spending. :o
Add a tip automatically to the bill I do not agree with or lecture me? Then you get 0. Leave MY gesture of appreciation, i.e. MY money, over to ME.

If you don't like tipping, if you don't like to follow the customs of the country you are visiting....don't come to the US. Problem solved