Fine. But I am not responsible for someones wage. The employer is. If you become so dependant on tips, seek another job. Don't forget that the vast majority of workers don't have any possibility on getting tips and yet manage to live on.
As long as service is basic and proper, I tip at least something. But I don't want to be forced to an amount.

In Manhattan, I double the tax for normal service, and tip 20% or more for extraordinary service (DH and I have tipped as much as 40%, in cash, to a waiter who really gave outstanding service; we also told his manager that our evening had been a delight in large part thanks to the waitstaff, and this waiter in particular), all based on pre-tax amounts. I don't think you should tip on the tax, but I could be wrong.

Just amazing. You know if you are a repeat customer at any restaurant in the US they are spitting, or worse, in your food. And that makes be happy.

The "Tip Included in the Bill" thread
 

Proud workers, I'm sure.

Ralph, I suspect that you are just a cheapskate that doesn't mind taking money from those who serve you as long as you get to save a few dollars. As you fully know, waitstaff are not paid even minimum wage as hourly pay but depend upon tips for the majority of their wages. In fact, they are automatically taxed on an imputed tip whether they receive it or not.

But if you are sincere and honestly believe that you have a right to exercise what you are calling your Dutch customs while in the US, the least you should do is to inform your server upfront about your view on tipping so that they can decide whether they want to take a chance on serving someone who may unilaterally decide to stiff them. Me, I wouldn't.

Yes, I agree it is unfair to be forced to give a tip to a service that does not deserve it. Tips should always be voluntary, if not then at least deserved.

The "Tip Included in the Bill" thread
 

'taking money'. It seems you all think the tip is for the server unless proven otherwise. In my common sense, it is still my money until I decide to give it.
And for the record, I tip 9/10 times unless service is crap. And I decide my own amount.
I have no problem with basic tipping. Just deciding for me.

As with a choice of aiming for 15% or aiming for 20%, tipping on the pretax or the after tax is fine either way.

I suspect like many folks online, he talks a grumpier game would describe his actions in person.

Tipping sucks. OTOH, unless you're going to open a restaurant and have all the service staff on salary, there's nothing much you can do about it.

in many european restaurants there is no need to tip, as help staff is properly compensated. seems to me like the restaurant is collecting the tip and paying the help a decent wage without your approval. by all means, short the bill by 20%.

No restaurant ( or any other business, for that matter ) should be hiring and paying it's employees on tips alone. Yes, I know it happens, but it shouldn't. That is KLflyerRalph's point, which is quite correct.

However, a waiter or waitress does not order restaurant supplies and foods stocks, cook, or prepare your meal. They prepare a patron's table, take the order, serve beverages and the selected meal. They are also trained and expected to voice any displeasure one has, if it occurs, on up to the next level.

If one has a problem with restaurant service, or the meal quality, take it up with the manager, before the bill is settled. That is the appropriate person to discuss and resolve any complaints.

so what. a "really good" waiting job generates over $100k/year. there are a lot of them. some in very strange places, like a marriot sit down table fast food restaurant. people should not be paid piecework, people should not be paid???????

I think you have misunderstood. Electing to withhold a tip to an hourly employee versus an employee working on tips alone.

My first point being that service employees should be paid a legal hourly wage, including benefits. Including health insurance coverage, unless that is covered by the country they reside in.

People working on tips alone are not generally covered by health insurance.

So if the fish, pasta, wine, or meal quality is bad, and you withhold a tip, who did you actually make you point to ? The person who is charge of ordering said items, or the poor waiter who does not ?

Marriot employees by the way are hired as either as salaried or hourly employees, including a company benefits package.

More importantly, is to address a complaint about service, or dining quality to the right person, my second point. If you withhold the tip to the waiter as you pay your bill, what have you accomplished ? The waiter just tells the manager that you are a "cheapskate " or something else equally descriptive to cover the situation. The word goes around, and perhaps a second look at your bill for your name to go in the mental black book is made. And believe me, most good restaurants know their customers: The good and the bad.

You have just injured yourself by not stating your problem, and if a repeat customer just marked yourself for the next time you visit.

If you don't speak up, the manager never hears your actual complaint, which if valid regarding dismal service, dirty linen, dirty cutlery, dirty china, poor food quality, the wrong meal served, etc. is never addressed as it should be.

Most restaurants today are quite sensitive to a patron or guest dining at a restaurant, leaving for an unknown reason but obviously upset ( no tip ), and then being blasted later online regarding the same incident, in detail.

The question thus arises: " Why didn't they say anything ? " Ergo, speak to the manager, and try and get the issue resolved at the time. It may not be the fault of the waiter.

Nobody in the restaurant industry works on tips alone -- even where the wages are sub-minimum, the employer is required to make up the difference to the federal (or higher state) minimum if the tips don't make it to minimum. There are quite a few states (including California, with 1/9th of the population) where tipped employees earn state minimum before tips.

In many states, they are. Of course, the legal minimum is not a living wage in many places, and even where it is a minimal living wage, it often won't be enough to attract decent workers.

Health insurance isn't federally mandatory for any employer in the US for another ~7 months, and an awful lot of restaurants have few enough employees that it won't be mandatory even next year. (There are some local health insurance requirements; you'll see a mandatory percentile fee posted on the menu at an awful lot of restaurants in San Francisco -- this isn't a city tax, but rather a protest against the city health insurance mandate that caught on with restaurant owners since it passes the blame more than just raising prices would.)

This is an excellent point.

...and if it IS the fault of the waiter, the manager is likely the right person to make sure that it doesn't happen again in the future.

nkedel;

I'm not just addressing this in North America, but also on an international level.

I do appreciate your informed insight on US federal, versus state regulations, which apparently vary state to state.

Elsewhere I have read ( when I could not sleep ) rather long legal treaties on the specific situation in San Francisco. There is still much on this topic in the internet news.

Correct me if I am wrong, but my reading was that the restaurant owners were including a fee or tax onto each bill for employees, that they were caught keeping as profit. I thought the District Attorney found a few guilty of that.

Was that not the case ?

Sorry but you are wrong. First, in the USA the IRS requires large restaurants to assume certain amount of gross sales for the tables served by a waiter as tips. The waiter pays self employment tax on that amount (just shy of 16%). Secondly, in a full service restaurant the waiter must "tip out" the bartender who makes the drinks whether or not he receives a tip. Finally, the waiter must tip out the host/hostess and busboys/busgirls in restaurants that have them. At some restaurants, the waiters even need to tip out the lower level kitchens staff.

I have two cousins who have waited tables on and off for their entire working lives. They absolutely HATE English, Scottish, and Welsh people sit down at a table they are waiting because they are going to get stiffed. They are half English so there is no prejudice here, just a sour taste because well the Scottish in particular do live up to their stereotype of being super cheap.

So be proud of the fact that you are stealing from the waiters who serve you for the $2 an change they are paid and freeload off the folks who do tip. Congratulations, you have much to be proud of!