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-   -   The "Tip Included in the Bill" thread (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/diningbuzz/1424787-tip-included-bill-thread.html)

China Clipper Apr 30, 2013 7:54 pm


Originally Posted by nkedel (Post 20678649)
...then it should be posted on the menu, or someplace conspicuous. Not much to ask, just as outside the US where some prices are "plus tax and service" or there's a coperta (etc) those will generally be posted.

What should be posted? That our establishment is run consistently with the norms in our society? Seems to me that only the exceptions should be noted. But it can certainly be argued that everything should be posted everywhere. Trouble is, many people run their lives according to "whateva whateva, I do what I want!"

cordelli Apr 30, 2013 8:28 pm


Originally Posted by China Clipper (Post 20678860)
What should be posted? That our establishment is run consistently with the norms in our society?

That a mandatory tip is added to the bill.

Though the courts in New York have made it very clear that

A tip or gratuity is discretionary

and even if it's listed on the bill or wall as being mandatory or added to the bill, it won't hold up in court should they arrest the diners.

jackal Apr 30, 2013 11:22 pm


Originally Posted by nkedel (Post 20678270)
Speaking generally, I tip a little over 20% at inexpensive places (20% on the pretax, round up to the nearest 50c or a buck if the service was good), and use the "double the tax" rule at moderate-price ones, which comes to 16%-17.5% depending on which city I'm in around here. At expensive ones, it depends entirely on the service, but defaulting to actually calculating out 15% if the service was merely OK.

What's everyone's "minimum tip"? I generally won't tip less than $2ish (e.g. if the bill is something like $8.03, they'd get a $10 left for the bill and tip.) Not too many table-service places that cheap left, but where there are I don't feel right leaving less.

For buffet and counter-service places where you don't clear your own table but they don't take drink orders, I'll usually leave a buck (or a buck a person when there with my wife) for the guy who clears tables. Vegas/Reno buffets where they do drink orders at the table, I'll generally tip $5 for my wife and I if they're good about refills.

That is pretty much identical to my standard practice.

Although I can't recall the last time I went to a buffet, so I'm not sure what I typically do there. ;)

There are a few country diners here in Lancaster County, PA where you can still have a filling meal and a Coke for $6. Leaving a buck or a buck twenty just seems cheap, so as you said, I usually leave a couple.

For take-out, I typically tip about 10% rounded up, as a former coworker who had previously been a hostess at a restaurant told me that the hostesses actually do have to put in quite a bit of work to get the to-go order prepped and ready in between their normal job.

nkedel Apr 30, 2013 11:34 pm


Originally Posted by China Clipper (Post 20678860)
What should be posted? That our establishment is run consistently with the norms in our society? Seems to me that only the exceptions should be noted. But it can certainly be argued that everything should be posted everywhere. Trouble is, many people run their lives according to "whateva whateva, I do what I want!"

The norm is that tips are conventional, but discretionary.

The level is also highly variable; I know several older folks who still insist that 10% is the standard for normal service, and while the spread between 15% on the pretax and 20% on the after-tax total is pretty small on a small bill, it gets nontrivial as the bills get larger.

In any event, it is NOT the norm of our society to add a "mandatory" tip to the bill, or to add a service charge, except for large parties, and even there, the norm is very much to publish on the menu what the amount is (which can be anywhere between 15% and 20%) and the minimum size of party for which it is added.

If you're running a restaurant and don't like that, make it a mandatory service charge -- which you WILL have to post on the menu -- and most places you'll have to charge sales tax on it.

WHBM May 1, 2013 2:27 am


Originally Posted by nkedel (Post 20678649)
...then it should be posted on the menu, or someplace conspicuous.

I am well aware of US custom with gratuities, and so, as far as I am aware, is everyone else I know from the UK who has been to the US.

However what I do NOT care for is a lecture on arrival from the waitress, when they finally turn up at the table, about how tipping is "customary" in the USA and the standard amount is 20% and ..... yadda yadda yadda. I find this panhandling for tips rude and insulting. Excuse me, but I've probably eaten out in more USA establishments than you have. The next time I get this lecture, generally delivered in school-marm patronising tones, I'm going to say that.

nkedel May 1, 2013 2:59 am


Originally Posted by WHBM (Post 20679966)
I am well aware of US custom with gratuities, and so, as far as I am aware, is everyone else I know from the UK who has been to the US.

My point was not about the general custom (as you go on to note, lecturing people about it seems as likely to seem patronizing as to be helpful) but rather the limited range of places which add it automatically even for smaller parties in contravention of the usual standard.

User Name May 1, 2013 5:23 am


Originally Posted by WHBM (Post 20679966)
I am well aware of US custom with gratuities, and so, as far as I am aware, is everyone else I know from the UK who has been to the US.

However what I do NOT care for is a lecture on arrival from the waitress, when they finally turn up at the table, about how tipping is "customary" in the USA and the standard amount is 20% and ..... yadda yadda yadda. I find this panhandling for tips rude and insulting. Excuse me, but I've probably eaten out in more USA establishments than you have. The next time I get this lecture, generally delivered in school-marm patronising tones, I'm going to say that.

I generally tip as well as the next person, but this type of stuff gets my goat.

If anyone sees fit to mar my evening with a lecture on tipping, then that's putting their tip in jeopardy then and there. As for sneaking a tip onto the bill that hasn't been disclosed on the menu - that's akin to them sticking their hand in my pocket and seeing if I notice, so will result in a zero tip. I will not stand for this.

Pretzelsandpeanuts May 11, 2013 9:02 pm

To the English who are insulted that waiters and waitresses have mentioned the US tipping customs, you should look at your countrymen. Too many waitstaff have been stiffed by those with "funny accents" like yours. In fact, I have heard that restaurants in Times Square, which are filled with European tourists, are adding tips to all bills.

Now you can say the US tipping custom is dumb, ineffective, etc. fine, but the simple fact is that if you are visiting another country you need to abide by the customs of that country, end of story.

KLflyerRalph May 12, 2013 8:24 am


Originally Posted by Pretzelsandpeanuts (Post 20736300)
Now you can say the US tipping custom is dumb, ineffective, etc. fine, but the simple fact is that if you are visiting another country you need to abide by the customs of that country, end of story.

Urrr no. I control my own spending. :o
Add a tip automatically to the bill I do not agree with or lecture me? Then you get 0. Leave MY gesture of appreciation, i.e. MY money, over to ME.

Pretzelsandpeanuts May 12, 2013 9:03 am


Originally Posted by KLflyerRalph (Post 20737992)
Urrr no. I control my own spending. :o
Add a tip automatically to the bill I do not agree with or lecture me? Then you get 0. Leave MY gesture of appreciation, i.e. MY money, over to ME.

If you don't like tipping, if you don't like to follow the customs of the country you are visiting....don't come to the US. Problem solved

KLflyerRalph May 12, 2013 9:08 am


Originally Posted by Pretzelsandpeanuts (Post 20738162)
If you don't like tipping, if you don't like to follow the customs of the country you are visiting....don't come to the US. Problem solved

If the US can't respect foreigners. Put it in lock down.
If tourists don't tip me, I have no problem with that. Be happy they are customers at all.

Pretzelsandpeanuts May 12, 2013 9:17 am

You are visiting here, you, therefore, should follow the customs of this country. And when people visit the Netherlands, which I have done, we should follow the customs there. How is that difficult to understand?

nkedel May 12, 2013 9:18 am


Originally Posted by KLflyerRalph (Post 20737992)
Urrr no. I control my own spending. :o
Add a tip automatically to the bill I do not agree with or lecture me? Then you get 0. Leave MY gesture of appreciation, i.e. MY money, over to ME.

While you are within your rights to behave that way, the point you end up making is not "this would have been a gesture of a appreciation and you've blown it," but rather "I'm a cheap (insert epithet here)."

Tipping is a customary and expected part of the cost of dining in here; there's a lot of room to argue exactly how much is appropriate, and room to "show your appreciation" by exceeding (or not, or being lower than that), but in the end if you don't tip at all (at a full service sitdown place) you are just being a free rider.

If you really want to send a message, complain to the waiter (or better yet, call over the manager to complain), and then leave a conspicuously subpar tip (rather than none.)

KLflyerRalph May 12, 2013 9:25 am


Originally Posted by Pretzelsandpeanuts (Post 20738225)
You are visiting here, you, therefore, should follow the customs of this country. And when peoplevidit the znetherlands, which i have done, we should follow the customs there. How is that difficult to understand?

Thing is, you seem you want to force me and other foreigners to adjust. I on the other hand respect different cultures and that they might be unknowledgeable/uncomfortable with the culture of the country they are visiting. Therefore I do not want to mandate all visitors to act like locals if they don't feel like it. I don't care if you act like a local here as long as it's within my law. If I am not required to do anything, I will not if I am uncomfortable with it or simply do not agree with it.
I principally refuse to pay by standard if service is not proper. If service is exceedingly well, I tip more. If service is good/standard, I round up the sum. I do not work with percentages because with large sums that is ridiculous for me.
You should deserve a tip and it seems that it has become so standard for people, they also feel entitled when they have given bad service. In that case I'd rather spend my money elsewhere and forget about an arrogant service provider who can't even provide basic, courteous service.


Originally Posted by nkedel (Post 20738230)
While you are within your rights to behave that way, the point you end up making is not "this would have been a gesture of a appreciation and you've blown it," but rather "I'm a cheap (insert epithet here)."

Tipping is a customary and expected part of the cost of dining in here; there's a lot of room to argue exactly how much is appropriate, and room to "show your appreciation" by exceeding (or not, or being lower than that), but in the end if you don't tip at all (at a full service sitdown place) you are just being a free rider.

If you really want to send a message, complain to the waiter (or better yet, call over the manager to complain), and then leave a conspicuously subpar tip (rather than none.)

If service is standard or better, I certainly tip. But leave that and the amount up to me and don't force it upon me. I find that insulting and demeaning. As if I am not able to myself and they have to tell me to.
If service is below par, I don't tip.

Pretzelsandpeanuts May 12, 2013 9:30 am


Originally Posted by KLflyerRalph (Post 20738252)
Thing is, you seem you want to force me and other foreigners to adjust. I on the other hand respect different cultures and that they might be unknowledgeable/uncomfortable with the culture of the country they are visiting. Therefore I do not want to mandate all visitors to act like locals if they don't feel like it. I don't care if you act like a local here as long as it's within my law. If I am not required to do anything, I will not if I am uncomfortable with it or simply do not agree with it.
I principally refuse to pay by standard if service is not proper. If service is exceedingly well, I tip more. If service is good/standard, I round up the sum. I do not work with percentages because with large sums that is ridiculous for me.
You should deserve a tip and it seems that it has become so standard for people, they also feel entitled when they have given bad service. In that case I'd rather spend my money elsewhere and forget about an arrogant service provider who can't even provide basic, courteous service.

You are simply wrong and you can couch your extreme cheapness in all the arrogant and logic twisting verbiage you want, but remember you are denying a person a livable wage. And you are responsible for the tip being added to all bills, the practice you so seem to despise. I am done with you as you truly disgust me.


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