Shangri-La

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/08/ny...ted=all&src=pm

Does this also extend to other seafood? What if you go into a high-end grocery store, or maybe dinner at Le Bernardin?

cordelli

Seeing how it's against FDA regulations in the US to serve any raw fish (not shellfish) that has not been frozen (with the exception of Tuna), I can't picture any high end grocery store or restaurant putting their reputation and permits at risk by not following the guidelines (which the FDA does not enforce, but requires on local code enforcement)

Except for raw molluscan shellfish, certain species of large tuna, certain aquacultured fish, and fish eggs that have been removed from the skein and rinsed, if fish are intended for raw or undercooked consumption, they must be properly frozen before they are served. If this process is done off-premises, purchase specifications ensuring that proper freezing techniques are used to destroy parasites must be provided. Labeling or other information should accompany the product to advise as to whether the product was frozen properly. This is necessary because fish from natural bodies of water may carry parasitic worms that can infect and injure consumers who eat such raw fish dishes as sushi, ceviche, green (lightly marinated) herring, and cold-smoked salmon. The worms are often deeply imbedded inside fish muscle. Thorough freezing kills these worms if the fish are subjected to a low enough temperature for a long enough time..



FDA Food Code 2009: Annex 3 - Public Health Reasons / Administrative Guidelines - Chapter 3, Food

FLLDL

Most sushi fish is indeed frozen at some point, even at fancier places. Unless fish is coming in on a day boat, how else would they keep it from rotting?

Some small local places where the chef can buy fish on the docks everyday might have true fresh fish. Honestly with flash/blast freezing and the like + proper thawing it is unlikely you would notice the difference.

Hence most talk of sushi "freshness" in the US is largely just baseless snobbery...

Steph3n

no really, sushi is the rice, and can be fresh, or old. I've had some terrible sushi that was having rice that is just dried up, no good at all.

Raw fish is NOT sushi, raw fish, be it frozen prior or fresh off the dock, is sashimi. Sushi can be terrible if old(and it gets that way quickly especially if airflow around), I mean disgusting, of course so could sashimi but I don't think freezing has much to do with it unless it is not stored properly and gets 'freezer burn'

Amelorn

True. When most people refer to freshness, I believe it's just the quality/tastiness of that fish. Comparing some places back home in NY which attract better ratings for "freshness", they just use obviously better (often fattier, thus tastier) cuts of fish than some cheaper venues. The cheaper places don't use anything inferior in terms of age/use by/risk of food poisoning, just in terms of taste.

Bobster

Sushi is required to be frozen to kill the parasites. These are parasites that can do really, really bad things to you, so you would not want to risk it, even if the risk of getting them is low.

(Cordelli already answered the question, but I'm not sure if the others are getting the message about the parasites )

BostonFlyer1624

Youre missing the point.

Just because something is frozen, does not mean it isn't fresh. Freezing items for a few hours or days to preserve its freshness does not lower its quality.

Freezing items gets a bad rep because when you freezing something for extended periods of time (weeks, months, etc) it loses many of its natural properties (taste, health benefits, etc).

Steph3n

I think the point is missed that sushi isn't fish at all

bocastephen

Sushi/sashimi (doesn't matter - it's still uncooked fish) is always frozen to a very deep temperature to kill parasites, including tapeworms which would be an almost sure-fire 'souvenir' from the restaurant if it wasn't.

There is a very high end sushi bar in New York which has its own deep freeze blast freezer which keeps their fish at incredibly low temperatures and perfectly 'fresh' (tasting/texture) for a couple of years so they can "buy low, sell high" as availability and prices fluctuate. Apparently they buy the fish from Fulton St when it's perfectly fresh and hours old, then chill it to some crazy low temperature in this machine - when it comes out and thaws, the taste and texture matches the fish when it went into the freezer.

Even blast frozen, if the thawed fish is not properly cared for by the restaurant, it becomes infested with bacteria that will cause another 'problem' after dining - a reason why you should never dine in a sushi restaurant that has an obvious 'fishy' odor, or the fish is mushy when served.

lin821

Exactly!

It does matter.

There are sushi that use no fish at all, while sashimi is almost all fish. For example, there's zero fish in Inarizushi (豆皮壽司 or 稲荷寿司: いなりすし).

flyaxa

For the past few years we have been ordering from www.catalinaop.com and doing our own sashimi/maki/nigiri. You can get fresh sashimi grade yellowfin and bluefin tuna, salmon and scallops and uni. It ends up being better than anything we have ever had out, even some very top end places...granted have not been to Japan.

gardener

I am pretty sure the sushi in Tsukiji market is not frozen.

I have had live squid (ika) in Japan which was still breathing - you could see the red and blue blood. THAT is fresh sashimi. BTW really fresh ika is transparent not white like here in the USA.

I have had live, wriggling octopus tentacles in Pusan which had not been frozen.

Pretty sure it is just the US that mandates frozen fish if it is to be consumed raw.

The company I am retired from sold liquid nitrogen. I am told by food experts that shrimp flash frozen on the boat then thawed are superior to shrimp put on ice on the boat.

bocastephen

My point is how the US government views the serving of raw fish in public restaurants - it doesn't care whether it's sushi or sashimi, it still needs a freeze.

Japan has no such regulation, so you can eat unfrozen raw fish.

cordelli

The US government doesn't care how it's being served, sushi, sashimi, Civiche, or on a stick.

If it's fish (not raw molluscan shellfish, certain species of large tuna, certain aquacultured fish, and fish eggs that have been removed from the skein and rinsed) and if it's going to be served raw or undercooked, it has to be frozen before it's served.

Gaucho100K

Frozen Foods have bad press..... the food industry I feel has not done enough to educate the public about the facts about freezing, how it can be done properly and what it does and does not do to different foods. There is now an urban myth out there than all things frozen arent as good as the "fresh" stuff.... this thread shows that there is a lot of bla bla out there.....

Blast Freezers are a foodies best friend. In expert hands, they make conservation of impossible foods possible, and allow them to retain all their original characteristics. I just wish these babies would come down in price to make them a more reasonable purchase for the home.....