Originally Posted by jrolland1975 (Post 17493527)

Yes my avatar is Dr Shelton Cooper. Since you seem to be a good guy despite your poor mathematical skills, I incorporate a footage of me being frustrated at your first post and how I dealt with it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpeF067Hx2Y

Originally Posted by emma69 (Post 17493087)

Perfectly well in my house. I am veggie, not vegan, but unless you are also veggie, or, like my good friend, eat veggie meals more often as the norm (with occasional meat thrown in), you are normally going to find meat served for supper, whether a steak, a roast joint or otherwise. It comes with a few caveats - I don't check the seasoning myself in something like a stew or meat pasta sauce (normally I have a helper to check for me tho!) so if you feel it is under seasonsed for your tastes, please let me know and I will provide hot sauce / herbs etc on demand!

I won't serve milk veal (I don't have an ethical problem with pink veal), and I won't serve foie gras. I will also get a touch annoyed if you are a fussy meat eater - if you eat meat, I expect you to eat meat - not to turn your nose up at oxtail, or such like or shriek when a fish still has its head on. I really can't be doing with 'supermarket meat eaters' who don't have a real idea of where their food comes from, how it is processed etc. If you don't like it, then you can have the veggie dish I have prepared for myself. I don't pander. That goes for kids too. I got some filthy looks and parents scurrying their children away a couple of weeks ago I stood with my friend's four year old and told him which of the cute petting animals he had eaten. He was cool with it, as most kids who are raised aware of where their food comes from.

I will always offer to make something to bring with me for supper at someone else's house, and am happy to have 'just the veggies' if someone 'forgets' that I don't eat fish (really, I have a darling friend, we've known each other 18 years or so, and she STILL thinks I eat fish)

I try to avoid animal products where I can - I don't opt for Omega 3 orange juice (or pasta, or margerine or bread), I avoid gelatin in things like candy and yogurt, I skip McDonalds french fries in Canada, question items like refried beans in mexican restaurants, and take a pass on lots of commercially baked items like twinkies. I do have leather shoes, and have fox hunted in the past. I've visited abbatoirs, skinned a deer, removed lead shot from a variety of birds, and sent family pets to become pet food. People make a lot of assumptions as to why I do or don't eat / wear certain things and are quick to cry 'hypocrite' when they spot a pair of cute leather stilletoes on my tootsies. I don't lecture others on their choices, but do ask that they respect mine. It really angers me that people have, in the past, tried to 'trick' me into eating meat by hiding it in a dish they claim is veggie. I just don't get what skin off their nose it is for me to choose not to consume meat and fish :(

Originally Posted by jrolland1975

Then explain to me why countries with high level of meat consumption per capita like France, Spain, Germany, Sweden, Italy are way ahead in terms of life expectancy. By the way, did you realize that the US is only 17th in terms of meat consumption per capita? How very surprising...

The Spaniards eat twice as much meat per head and they live 4 years longer. How very unfair isn't?

Originally Posted by jrolland1975 (Post 17493347)

Then explain to me why countries with high level of meat consumption per capita like France, Spain, Germany, Sweden, Italy are way ahead in terms of life expectancy. By the way, did you realize that the US is only 17th in terms of meat consumption per capita? How very surprising...

The Spaniards eat twice as much meat per head and they live 4 years longer. How very unfair isn't?

Originally Posted by jrolland1975 (Post 17493365)

Ok, which ones, apart from the Adventist one?

Originally Posted by ossipago (Post 17494367)

I know I shouldn't be doing this, but ... you totally ignored the point that just because meat eating is the status quo doesn't make it inherently more defensible than being vegetarian/vegan. You can't simply say that because the studies showing vegetarian diets are healthier have problems, that means that meat-eating is healthier. That is the same "logic" used by creationists when they say that the lack of transition fossils in the record (a problem in evolutionary theory) means in and of itself that creationism is correct. You fail to advance your end of the argument.

I'll also note that your positive evidence for your position is anecdotal, uncorrected aggregrate statistics. The other side has at least one controlled, longitudinal, peer-reviewed study. Yes, it has some problems - all studies do - but it's clear which one of these is scientifically more convincing.

Originally Posted by ossipago (Post 17494367)

You can't simply say that because the studies showing vegetarian diets are healthier have problems, that means that meat-eating is healthier.

Originally Posted by ossipago (Post 17494367)

you are going to have to ignore the significant amount of medical and scientific research that goes against that position.