That's your opinion. It's not what observation suggests.

Incidentally, let's say that at time 0, you have a population of 100. At time 1, 10 have died. Assuming that at time 0 everyone would drink water, which is your own assumption, there is absolutely no correlation between drinking water and dying (I wrote the series down for you so you can think about it). If you're trying to stun the rest of us, try at least to find an example that makes sense

Drinks Dies Lives
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 1 0
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 1 0
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 1 0
1 0 1
1 1 0
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 1 0
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 1 0
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 1 0
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 1 0
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 1 0
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 1 0
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1
1 0 1

The Adventists are non-smokers by construction. The other groups had smokers, so technically only one group had smokers.

The point is there is, to my knowledge, no conclusive evidence that vegans live longer than meat-esters. Or if there is, feel free to share with us, your friends.

I am not sure that they will taste that good

Perfectly well in my house. I am veggie, not vegan, but unless you are also veggie, or, like my good friend, eat veggie meals more often as the norm (with occasional meat thrown in), you are normally going to find meat served for supper, whether a steak, a roast joint or otherwise. It comes with a few caveats - I don't check the seasoning myself in something like a stew or meat pasta sauce (normally I have a helper to check for me tho!) so if you feel it is under seasonsed for your tastes, please let me know and I will provide hot sauce / herbs etc on demand!

I won't serve milk veal (I don't have an ethical problem with pink veal), and I won't serve foie gras. I will also get a touch annoyed if you are a fussy meat eater - if you eat meat, I expect you to eat meat - not to turn your nose up at oxtail, or such like or shriek when a fish still has its head on. I really can't be doing with 'supermarket meat eaters' who don't have a real idea of where their food comes from, how it is processed etc. If you don't like it, then you can have the veggie dish I have prepared for myself. I don't pander. That goes for kids too. I got some filthy looks and parents scurrying their children away a couple of weeks ago I stood with my friend's four year old and told him which of the cute petting animals he had eaten. He was cool with it, as most kids who are raised aware of where their food comes from.

I will always offer to make something to bring with me for supper at someone else's house, and am happy to have 'just the veggies' if someone 'forgets' that I don't eat fish (really, I have a darling friend, we've known each other 18 years or so, and she STILL thinks I eat fish)

I try to avoid animal products where I can - I don't opt for Omega 3 orange juice (or pasta, or margerine or bread), I avoid gelatin in things like candy and yogurt, I skip McDonalds french fries in Canada, question items like refried beans in mexican restaurants, and take a pass on lots of commercially baked items like twinkies. I do have leather shoes, and have fox hunted in the past. I've visited abbatoirs, skinned a deer, removed lead shot from a variety of birds, and sent family pets to become pet food. People make a lot of assumptions as to why I do or don't eat / wear certain things and are quick to cry 'hypocrite' when they spot a pair of cute leather stilletoes on my tootsies. I don't lecture others on their choices, but do ask that they respect mine. It really angers me that people have, in the past, tried to 'trick' me into eating meat by hiding it in a dish they claim is veggie. I just don't get what skin off their nose it is for me to choose not to consume meat and fish :(

I recall the studies being among Adventists who ate meat or didn't. Also, I have never said vegan is important. I said that I think there are significant indications that more fruit and vegetables and less meat is good. Most places that have long lifespans eat small amounts of meat as far as I know.

You talkin to me?

I accept you invitation and will be at your house next Saturday, with my 400 friends of the Red Army Choir :D

nay, to Robertito

Thanks for finally agreeing: the problem is not eating meat, the problem is overeating, which we all know clog arteries etc.

Or eat at regular hours, fresh food, cooked at home, and consumed while sitting at a table by a group of people who are not in and out during dinner.

Which takes me to my point: there is no indication that vegans live longer,but people with regular balanced eating habits seem to live longer.

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3)

No, I'm not agreeing nor, if you read the thread, have I "finally" agreed. I have not changed what I have said throughout the thread. I am not saying it is overrating. I am saying that it is at least partially the ratio of meat in the diet.

It's clear that you are not looking for objective information about this topic, despite your claims. For one, your language indicates a clear calcification in your position - claims of longevity opposed to your position are referred to as "stereotypes" repeatedly, not in neutral language such as claims, theories, or hypotheses. Furthermore, you demand that people who present such theories meet a vast burden of proof to support their position, including highly sophisticated and nuanced statistical studies, as if the counter position that eating meat is healthy for you is not a claim of the same kind.

Furthermore, as in the case above, you intentionally misrepresent the claims of others to lend "support" to your position, while employing vastly different standards of proof for opposing arguments.

If you want to eat meat because you find it enjoyable, that's fine. If you want to also do it without any guilt, then, yes, you are going to have to ignore the significant amount of medical and scientific research that goes against that position.

Then explain to me why countries with high level of meat consumption per capita like France, Spain, Germany, Sweden, Italy are way ahead in terms of life expectancy. By the way, did you realize that the US is only 17th in terms of meat consumption per capita? How very surprising...

The Spaniards eat twice as much meat per head and they live 4 years longer. How very unfair isn't?

Ok, which ones, apart from the Adventist one?

I cannot believe I am having to explain this :rolleyes:, but the water/death comment was a (slightly cliched) way of saying that just because there appears to be a correlation between two observations that is not evidence that there is a cause/effect relationship. I don't need a lesson in statistics.

And while I am eternally gratefully for you writing out columns of numbers (I'm guessing you did the rough draft in crayon?), again, you have catastrophically missed the point, which was, that just because everyone who at some point in their lives has drunk water eventually dies it does not mean that water causes death. In fact, as everyone knows, if you don't drink water you will die, so the point of the sarcastic comment was that the badly applied statistics purport to prove the opposite of what is actually true.

The same can be true of meat-eating and longevity, and it is such a complex issue (biochemically, physiologically, sociologically, etc.) that there is no reasonable way of resolving the interwoven aspects of it to come to a certain conclusion either way.

PS: Please don't bang on about this any more. You've already become the guy who refuses to laugh a joke because it doesn't make any sense that a monkey could be a priest...

Yes my avatar is Dr Shelton Cooper. Since you seem to be a good guy despite your poor mathematical skills, I incorporate a footage of me being frustrated at your first post and how I dealt with it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpeF067Hx2Y