michaelchod

Louis XIII is a great drink and for $37.50 thats a steal !!! I pay between $125-$170 a "nice" oz. Well worth it !!

FMH1964

Does anyone know of a current guide to Cognac? I have Gordon Brown's Handbook of Fine Brandies from 1990 but that has to be considered out of date by now. I was not impressed by Salvatore Calabrese's Cognac: a liquid history. Who is the Cognac equivalent to the now departed Michael Jackson of single malt fame?

uk1

Having been brought up in the East-end and therefore having very basic unsophisticated tastes - I prefer armagnac to cognac. Hence the belief exists that all armagnac is better than all cognac.

number_6

Books? Its all on the web now

I like the Beverage Tasting Institute as they have good descriptions along with the numerical score, allowing you to make up your own mind about what to try. http://www.tastings.com/search_spiri...f=ScoreForSort

FMH1964

Beverage Tasting Institute isn't as comprehensive as what one might hope. Only 11 Armagnacs and 9 Luxury Cognacs (above XO) from 3 producers. The International Wine and Spirit Competition for 2010 has entries for 70 cognacs, 16 Armagnacs and 28 Calvados. Gilbert & Gaillard online does have entries for Cognac, Armagnac and Calvados. Another useful competition is Mundus Vini.

Has anyone encountered Cognac Grosperrin? This shipper specializes in Vintage Cognacs (yes they do exist) from specific zones within Cognac e.g. 1980 Grande Champagne, 1975 Bon Bois, 1954 Fins Bois etc. This shipper would seem to have a following in Europe. Two other well reviewed producers are Chateau de Beaulon and Famille Esteve. I have tried some of the cognacs from Chateau de Beaulon but not Famille Esteve.

uk1

I must be going wobbly as I get older.

I'm now completely ambivalent about cognac but absolutely adore armagnac. It possibly reflects me exactly. Unrefined. Cognac could be made anywhere .... I feel armagnac is different.

To me the extra distillation flattens character and detatches the drink from the grape. But armagnac gives you the grape, the water, the earth and I feel you can almost taste who made it and it is of the distinct terroir. In fact I'm certain ...

What's worst is that there seems to me to be an inverse relationship between character and price. To me the cheaper normally the better.

Anyway that's my cat amongst the pigeons.

number_6

Armagnac has always had more fire than cognac, being earthier, heavier and more pungent. Less subtle, floral and perfumey. Both good and bad virtues. There are fabulous eaux de vie made in Germany that are half-way between armagnac and cognac, but by small producers without marketing or aggregation; sort of a farmer's market of what would be superb cognac if it were made in Cognac Try a tour along the Rhine near Mainz, for example -- quite an eye-opener, though you may need a local guide as they don't sell to strangers.

Germain-Robin is a fabulous maker of "cognac" from a sheep farm in Mendocino, California -- as he should be, using an old copper still from Cognac, and nth generation cognac maker from France, relocated to California. Making some superb brandies, using all sorts of distinctive grape varieties. Some good, some far better (not all experiments are a resounding success, no matter how good the technique or authentic the equipment). Rather ironically their best brandies are not for sale, being reserved in the distillery for aging until after the founder's death, to make "Napoleon" brandy in future centuries. They have about 10 years production in inventory (an astonishing investment).

jbcarioca

Ah, not always. Generalization have their limits. There are some fine Armagnacs that show subtlety, refinement and delicacy. Surely with a single distillation most of them are as you say. I have before me right now a bottle of 1977 Cépage Bacco of Baron de Lustrac, and another of 1982 Domaine de Jaurrey of Laberdolive. I challenge anybody to find a cognac that begins to comapre in precisely the terms of refinement, smoothness, delicacy

"Germain-Robin is a fabulous maker of "cognac"

Germain-Robin contributes several of my favorite bottles, but they are not "cognac" even in parentheses. Even the maker calls them alambic brandies but does not confuse the issue by using an incorrect name. I am disinclined to accept the idea that they are 'the best in the world' but they certainly have some excellent choices.
http://www.germain-robin.com/

uk1

Absolutement mon cherie.

My interest in armagnac started when I first chatted after service with a chef whose food I adored. He loved armagnac. He collected it in order to drink it. He shared it with people that were left in his restaurant after he'd finished service. He never kept some for barmitvahs or weddings.

From then on - and this is off course unscientific - I noticed that the French whose taste I some times respected seem to enjoy armagnac and considered cognac prissy and for Americans and Japanese or for people who thought that they were refined. Or French politicians who are of course refined. And if you can't afford to drink a bottle with friends in one session then it isn't fit for purpose.

What is more .... I also drink grappa. Now do your worst.

slawecki

a number of the restaurants in france, particularly in and around normandy have a cart of open calvados(don't know plural). some have little tags indicating 100 or even 150 years old. they are poured in small increment, at very high prices. most bottles on the market are 40yo max.

jbcarioca

OMG! How is that possible? Hidden away in my cellar, disclosed here only because it is anonymous (sort of), there is a bottle or two of marc and a couple of grappa too. They are all homemade by friends and neighbors from the South of France.

Cognac is produced in an industrial, multi-distillation and blending process then aged on oak casks. Cognac is sweeter than many other brandies and is roughly equivalent to a blended whisky. Production is dominated by subsidiaries of large multinational drinks companies.

http://www.chiff.com/wine/europe/cognac.htm

Armagnac is an artisanal product that uses a single distillation normally from a single vintage of grapes. As such, poor Armagnac is hardly potable, while the best Armagnac is stunningly refined in taste and texture. Nearly all Armagnac sold in the US is of the poorer, cheaper varieties. The decent stuff is hard to find. Even the large producers are quite small and most are family producers. Armagnac can be compared to single malt whisky.

http://www.bbr.com/whiskies/armagnac

There seem to be a few misconceptions floating around this thread so I include a couple references just to try to be balanced.

To be really clear, if you want a cheap french brandy drink Cognac. the worst Cognac will not completely destroy your psyche. Do not drink a cheap Armagnac if you happen upon one. That may cause unrecoverable damage to your taste buds and/or intestinal system.

Cognac can never reach the heights of Armagnac, but it can never quite reach the depths either. Thus those among us who drink Armagnac can be found drinking the odd marc or grappa just to prove we have had taste from time to time.

uk1

jbcarioca - my hero - and a true understanding of armagnac. And a man with a cellar ... but no map was provided?!

Important stuff. Are there stairs? I'm OK going down ... but sometimes coming back up sometime later isn't as safe. I keep my grappa alongside all the other stuff IN THE WINE FRIDGE.

Someone else has just mentioned calvados .........

jbcarioca

I am blushing! Ah, Calvados. My spouse is a Calvados fan, as am I. We have a decent collection of that also. Most of ours came from a small shop in Mougins that was established by Roger Vergé

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moulin_de_Mougins

He, with an assistant named Alain Ducasse taught both of us most of what we know about food and drink. I had never heard of Calvados or Armagnac in 1978 when they began to teach us. Like the great chefs they are there was never a bit of condescension as they taught us things anybody should already have known. I admire them both immensely for their talent and dedication as well as their humanity.

Oh, but the subject was to be Calvados. My favorite today is a bottle of 1948 Camut that we acquired for my spouses birthday, one of two such that we bought from Mr. Vergé's shop. The remaining one is delectable.

Calvados is to Applejack as a Mercedes Benz SLS AMG is to a Hyundai Accent.

My favorite Calvados reference is this one: http://www.calvadosbook.com/index.php

uk1

Unluckily my SL is of the plain 500 black flavour ..... not an AMG!?

Funilly enough my last temporary armagnac buddy was just down the road in St Jean Cap Ferat. A decent enough shlep from Beaulieu. He (and his very anti non-French speaking wife) has The Sloop on the waters edge and seems to have more armagnac than wine.

dchristiva

I am a big fan of Pierre Ferrand Ambre.