Spoiled by fine dining?
 

A short anecdote before I get to my point - when I was little my father took me to a work gathering at a nice restaurant where two of his coworkers spent much time griping about the food. When I asked him why he said, "because they travel all the time and they're used to eating in better places".

Now that I'm older I understand completely. My wife and I have been going to nicer restaurants recently and have found that when we have those great dining experiences it totally demotivates us from going even to some places we were okay at before. For example, the other night I had steak while out and all I could think of was how great that steak I had at Hawksmoor's was and how this one just paled incredibly in comparison.

Does this sort of thing happen to any of the rest of you?

Yeah, I totally can't go into McDonalds anymore since Wendy's opened up next door. :p

If you keep eating at better and better places, you'll starve to death if you get stuck somewhere with nothing better than bland chain restaurants. Not to mention how much you'll pay over time. Nip this one in the bud.

Doesn't happen to me. I love going to nice places when I'm traveling for work, or with friends and family for special occasions. But I also love getting something quick and simple at some of my favorite "regular" places.

Maybe your problem is ordering the same thing (or something very similar) at "nice" and "not so nice" places -- you mentioned having a good steak, and a less good one. When I go out somewhere nice, it's usually for a really good steak or seafood/sushi kinds of dishes - and I never go to "cheap" steak or seafood places. When I go out (or take out) somewhere casual, it's often Chinese, Indian, burgers, etc. As a result, I don't have any problem with the $100 entree setting unrealistically high expectations for the $10 entree....

You know, you're exactly right about that. The biggest difference we see with quality are at the steak and seafood/sushi places. Chinese is great for casual, but I would opt for the high end Indian place if possible. BamaVol is right; it has sort of turned into an expensive habit for us, but it's only our childrens' college funds :)

By and large the ones I go to around me are as good or better than the ones I go to when traveling. That might not be true of all the ones around me, but I'm pretty selective and there are lots of local options. The major exception, the cafeteria at work :(

We have a similar problem - we rarely eat out because I cook better food at home!

Audrey

If I am spending a certain amount of money on dinner, I want a certain experience.

But that doesn't mean I can't go to Taco Bell and enjoy the hell out of a 99cent Caramel Apple Empanada :)

I have a friend who lives in the DC area - her father is a well-off ex-"State Department" guy who still travels only in int'l first and business (he still goes on "State Department" missions in Africa and the Middle East, even though he's "retired") - he only eats at really nice high-end restaurants in the area. She's in her early 30's, a workaholic and single & he's in his 70's and her mother passed away a few years back - so the two of them usually eat dinner once every two weeks or so at higher end places in the DC area.

I was in DC a few weeks ago & tried taking her out to dinner for an early birthday celebration. I used to love eating at Woo Lae Oak in Arlington, VA, before it burned down. Several years ago, they opened a new location in the Tyson's Corner, VA, area so I figured we'd try it out. She said she's down for anything & to surprise her, so I made reservations for Woo Lae Oak. Turns out she had already been there - and didn't enjoy it. I made a suggestion of going to Ruth's Chris in Tysons - she thought the food there was just okay...so, we ended up at Capital Grill (I think Ruth's Chris is better, but whatever)...

Long story short - she's one of those people it's impossible to go out with because she eats at high end restaurants, so the lower end don't cut it & only a few of the higher end are any good! I love the girl, but man - going out to eat is a pain! :)

I have noticed that I have developed a very polarized approach to dining. If it's not haute cuisine, then it's $5 footlongs at Subway. There is no middle ground for me.

does 'nicer' have to equal cost? I took the OP's definition of 'nicer' to mean higher quality, not cost, it seems that most folks are discussing cost/high end cuisine.

If 'nicer' equals higher quality, then yes, my travels and desire to keep trying new items has made my palette crave quality.

You must be an ex or current chef with quite a repertoire of ablilities or your tastes are limited and you cook 'in this limited range' well, I'm guessing the latter. I too consider myself a good cook but I wouldn't think that I can cook on the same level as (insert your chef of haute cusiine) or as well as the chef in some of the 'down n dirty' ethnic hole in the wall type places we go.

Actually I think I'm trending the other way. The whole pomp and process of "fine dining" seems progressively more silly to me as over and over again I find that my palate is much more stimulated by "down at the heels" ethnic food than most haute cuisine. Not that I won't take the lady out for the high end experience from time to time, but truth be told that experience is less about the food and more about the intangibles.. as my mouth alone would generally be more stimulated by some Indian or Thai, both of which are seldom particularly expensive or fancy. Also of these are cuisines that I'd not be able to prepare reasonably myself. I am however, perfectly adept at searing a scallop or grilling a steak. Generally I like very, very spicy food. I don't find much haute cuisine fitting this description.

Well, you're in the right place anyway. I've been reviewing the various online sites that have rankings for the 'world's 100 best restaurants' and it is amazing how many highly rated restaurants are in NYC. Not sure if that is critical prejudice or a fact. Unless I misread the lists I don't even recall seeing any in LA, where I'll be in a few weeks.

^^+1.

Interesting hypothesis for a thread and, in my case, a timely one to some degree.

I was off yesterday and I was doing some shopping. There was a restaurant not too far from the mall and I had been there a couple of times before. Both times I was very pleased with the food and I remembered that they had a very nice outdoor patio so I decided to drop in for lunch.

On a Monday the place was about half full with local workers and I slipped easily into a nice table on the patio. No waiting in line---no muss, no fuss. Before I was able to even unroll the napkin someone came by with the menu, the waitress right behind.

Now, this place isn't a 'dive' but it is one of those 'taverns' with multiple TVs showing sports and the stock market, has a popcorn machine in the corner and peanut shells on the floor. The patio chairs and tables are plastic and the napkins are paper.

Turns out that one of their lunch specials was their 1/2 lb. steakburger with fries; normally $8.95 but today, $5.00. I added provolone cheese at no charge. I chose a 16 oz. Stella draft @ $3.00 (again on special). I ordered the cheeseburger rare---it came out perfect---with a fried pickle as an added bonus. It was, without a doubt, the best cheeseburger that I've had this year---and I do love my cheeseburgers! LOL

With tax and tip, about $12.00 out the door. Extra Bonus: this restaurant participates in the Rewards Network program so I got airline milage (double on a Monday)!

I've had some memorable meals while dining on the expense account but it doesn't stop me from enjoying food/settings that is just so perfect at that moment. Sometimes 'simple' is 'sublime'.

Absolutely true; but it also does not mean simple = inexpensive (though it can, as it was in your example). I've eaten great meals for >USD 1000 per person (typical 3-star dinner with wine), and also for <USD 3 (carnitas burritos). Enjoyment and even quality can be all over the place. But I disagree that eating at better restaurants makes you jaded for "simple" food. Rather it makes for an appreciation of what food can be like. I now seek out good-tasting butter, milk, eggs, meat -- because I can taste the difference. Generally I can buy better ingredients than most restaurants have, so I tend to make simple dishes with simple ingredients at home, for a fraction of the restaurant price and with more nutrition and enjoyment. But I also stock 5 kinds of salt at home (the best being Murray River salt, which is soft and airy like snowflakes and it shows in the flavour!). Spoiled? Absolutely ... so I prefer to eat at home given a choice. When I cannot, I try to find restaurants that have a love of food and enhance their ingredients.

I don't think steak is "fine dining" not matter the quality.
Real fine dining, in my book, is what you get at the likes of French Laundry. No one can eat like that every day.

You summed up what I was trying to say better than I possibly could have said it myself.

Steak may not be haute cuisine but when you get that great one, oh man. It sounds crazy but we still talk about that meal we had two months ago.

It can be "fine dining" but not "haute cuisine". I eat steak rarely, picking my choices carefully. Last one was at a French bistro in Melbourne called the European, chateaubriand for 2 beautiful meat but also with 3 side dishes (served on separate plates) of incredibly good coleslaw, potatoes with shallots, bacon and prosciutto, and green beans with pistachios. Simple food but carefully thought out and balanced flavours. I have eaten at the French Laundry and this was every bit as good. But most steak houses would fail to deliver to this level of food; and I was eating on the sidewalk, in a simple bistro. The secret of good food is to enhance the flavour and "terroir", to work with the food rather than to make it into something that it is not. Many chefs (and vintners) make the mistake of trying to mold the food in their image, rather than in the image of the food. Of course securing good provisions can be tough, and having to change the menu to match what is in the market is not viable for some restaurants -- while essential for others.

Absolutely. I can cook ten times better than the most of the 4/5 star hotel meals I get subjected to when I have to resort to room service.

Being a bit of a "foodie" I have eaten in some of the world's best restaurants. My requirement is food that has been cooked with passion. And that can be a $2 bowl of Pho in Hanoi, or a plate of noodles from a Singapore hawker centre...or a $350 per head meal at a "San Pellegrino Top 50" restaurant.

I'm not a trained chef, but I am Australian with German, Scottish and Australian heritage, with a husband of Hungarian and Australian heritage. We also love Chinese and French food as well as our own heritage foods. I cook a pretty wide range of foods from recipes passed down in our families, as well as cooking from cookbooks. Winter's started here, so we're onto the hearty European foods. Venison Sauerbraten with kohl rabi last night (there won't be one restaurant in Australia that serves that!), a German lentil soup the night before (German style with 3 different forms of smoked pork), a roast with Yorkshire Pudding the day before that. Tonight it's either a chicken and vegetable risotto or a stir-fry - depends on what looks good in the shops. Or that duck in the fridge may turn into a French duck in orange sauce. Or I might decide to experiment wildly and put the duck into a risotto. Ate a very nice duck risotto in Budapest, once....

I don't cook other cuisines, but we don't really eat them either. We don't like spicy foods which eliminates a lot of Asian foods, we hate olives and I hate tomatoes which wipes out most of the European Mediterranean foods. Other cuisines - African, easten European and northern Asian are just too far away from us culturally and we have no interest in them.

Don't knock home cooked food!

Audrey

no one is/was knocking home cooked food, I was simply stating that there may be accomplished home cooks out there but few can cook the variety that I prefer. It probably is from lacking talent, but also could be from lack of time (do most have the time to cook stocks properly?), or even the actual cooking equipment (I know of VERY few people that have a hot enough wok at home). What you describe sounds great but I'm guessing I'd tire pretty quickly I believe. IMO I don't think duck into risotto is wild. This is not a knock of you or your cooking, just an opinion on what I've read.

I'd love to cook all those things too, but I have to go to work 5-6 days a week. Part of the appeal of eating out is that all the work is done by someone else. Don't get me wrong, I love to cook. And don't get upset at us either, cause I'm thinking I'm not the only one here who would love a dinner invitation the next (first) time I'm in MEL.

I honestly have found peopel like that to be not people who truly enjoy food. I 'enjoyed' food until my wife taught me better...shes Italian, she loves food. People like your friend, in my opinion, judge places not by the food but by the price and that correlation is just asking for a bummer of a meal.

You nailed it! almost exactly for me at least. Our honeymoon included 3 meals we still talk about, the first was in the back of a convenience store, the second in a semi-causal restaurant, and a third at a world class fine dining. They excel at different things, the $3 burrito melts you with love the $1000 meal with beauty and technical perfection.

PS. salt snobs are worse than wine snobs. :D

Whilst I'm not adverse to the appeal of home cooking, if you happen to be in Melbourne...trust me...it might be my home town, but I still think Melbourne is one of the best cities in the world to eat in.

at home, we cook extremely well, in a pretty sophisticated manner, and in many styles. however:

we have a number of friends with whom we socialize that are in the food,the wine, and the service industry. it forever amazes me as to how much better they cook than we do.

i also think the most difficult dishes to recreate are the ethnic hole in wall dishes.

My palate was forever spoiled with my first plate of hokkien fried prawn mee...Thye Hong, Newton Food Centre.

That's fine dining :D

As a very regular visitor to Singapore with many friends there, I've had some sensational meals in Singaporean hawker centres...nearly all for them for less money than I could have bought the ingredients for myself.

On that vein, the best fish I've ever had was fresh kalkan from a street vendor on the seaside in Istanbul. I believe the proper name might be turbot. Excellent flavor, served with lemon and a side of rocket

Kalkan = Turbot. Yes it is. I've eaten fantantic food in Istanbul too :-)

had a burger once at a tasting dinner. i certainly considered it fine dining.

kobe beef burger with foie gras and truffle sauce, paired with two st supery aged reds.

I agree to a large extent. In my 20s I was all about the Michelin stars or this rating and that rating and I did my fair share of those kinds of places. Now in my 30s I find that I am tiring of the fussy pretentious places that are ridiculously expensive but lack the value proposition. I now prefer holes in the wall or simpler place which offer a nice ambiance, a reasonable if not inexpensive menu using quality ingredients in a simple way.

I still enjoy a fine dining meal from time to time but I also tailor my expectations to the quality, and price, point of the restaurant I am going to.

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Yes.... alas, its important to learn to manage expectations and keep the food critic hat at home when pertinent... this allows you to fully enjoy a wider range of eats... from street fare to the most formal 3 star establishments.

I grew up going to some very fine restaurants and when I spend time with my successful parents, I get to eat some great meals. However, I'm lucky that I am able to enjoy a very wide variety of foods. One of my favorite places to go is a local Mongolian BBQ place where you build your own stir fry.

Plus, I'm not a very good cook so what I make has to be simple, yet I love to prepare dinner at home, especially now that I live with my girlfriend. It's keeping me grounded.

I've experienced something similar though not quite the same. I call it the mediocre $80 dinner for 2. There are several places in our area where we can get an excellent meal for 2 for $100-125. There are also quite a few places where we can get excellent ethnic food - Chinese, Japanese, Mexican, Thai - for about $50. But then there are a whole bunch of places that serve ordinary mediocre same-o same-o dinners for $80. I try to avoid that middle ground.

I think many people go "full circle" and end up becoming disenchanted about the lottery of eating out and learn to produce excellent food at home.

It also seems to me that the best food often seems to be the food provided to working people on the streets - as an earlier poster said - hawker food in Singapore being an example.

In my view if you are fortunate enough to buy in fine dining restaurants then spending cash on extraordinary ingredients prepeared with love and care at home is worth the learning of how to cook well.

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bravo!!!

Not me.

I enjoy a lavish meal as much as the next guy, but after a bunch of them in a condensed time (work or vacation trips, especially), I cannot wait to get home and have something basic like a sandwich. In fact, the more "nice" meals I have, the more I want something simple.

The big thing for me is quality, not price.

I love fine dining as much as the next foodie, but I also appreciate a well-done burger, or my mom's mac and cheese. Whatever you do, whatever your price point, do it well. Use quality ingredients and make it taste GOOD. I don't care if I'm at a 3 star Michelin restaurant having an elaborate tasting menu, or the neighbourhood dive bar having fries and a beer.

A perfect example: while in Edinburgh I treated myself to a fantastic tasting menu at the Number One restaurant at the Balmoral hotel. Was it fabulous? Oh god yes it was. A few days later I was in Kirkwall at a neighbourhood pub and in absolute raptures over their cheap but delicious and perfectly cooked burger made with local beef. Enjoying one shouldn't preclude you from loving the other!

Not me
 

It may be because I love food. I have been to many Michelin star/fancy schmancy places in my lifetime. But I still love a great bowl of japanese noodles, indian curry & rice, a good burger, or a sausage & beer. In fact, I think some of the more "comfort foods" are better than some of the foods that take hours of labor to make. I was once eating at a Michelin 2-star restaurant, and I thought that a good chicken tikka masala and aromatic basmati rice would taste better than the restaurant's food. But the Michelin star-restaurant was definitely more interesting, more refined, and a better overall dining experience. I can go from both fancy to down-home, but I can appreciate both.

My wife has just reminded me that when I "lived" in 5 star hotels and ate rather well - every day - that I learned to make snacks on the bedside tea maker (frankfurters, peas and instant mash being a speciality) because I couldn't face the restauirant anymore and dressing up. And when I came home what seemed to hit the spot was a meat pie with gravy followed by an apple pie and custard.

Rather sadly, travel now is all about finding the cheapest and best street food - anywhere.