Quote:
I've had wine costing a few euros out of an industrial-sized vat in a dusty roadside bodegas in Spain that's gone into an empty half-gallon milk container that has been far superior to any hundred dollar piece of Napa Valley hype.
American wine buffs actually believe their own nonsense whereas the French know they're just continuing a centuries-old con trick.
But the best example of all is Australia. They steam-rollered the traditional French dominance of the market by producing cheap,fruity drinkable plonk that everyone loved.
And then they got ideas above their station, put up the price and produced bespoke this and boutique that.
Result ? The Chileans sneaked in unnoticed. And that's why they produce the best good,cheap,fruity plonk loved the world over.
Snobby wine is a con originated by wine makers and promoted by restauranters to artificially hike up the value of average plonk and thus their profits.
All I can say is "WOW"!Originally Posted by Showbizguru
That's just the sort of half-baked winey nonsense I was on about.I've had wine costing a few euros out of an industrial-sized vat in a dusty roadside bodegas in Spain that's gone into an empty half-gallon milk container that has been far superior to any hundred dollar piece of Napa Valley hype.
American wine buffs actually believe their own nonsense whereas the French know they're just continuing a centuries-old con trick.
But the best example of all is Australia. They steam-rollered the traditional French dominance of the market by producing cheap,fruity drinkable plonk that everyone loved.
And then they got ideas above their station, put up the price and produced bespoke this and boutique that.
Result ? The Chileans sneaked in unnoticed. And that's why they produce the best good,cheap,fruity plonk loved the world over.
Snobby wine is a con originated by wine makers and promoted by restauranters to artificially hike up the value of average plonk and thus their profits.
I said enough about Showbizguru in my previous post. No need to go on about that gem any further than that. I just wanted to add things below as I went through the thread to, hopefully, clarify the loads of mis-information out there.
Wine is a living thing so the purpose of having you taste the wine when its presented to you is to check for flaws, not to see if you like the wine. Good wine service is there to guide you into making a good choice, but if the wine is not to your liking, they dont necessarily have to take it back. Some places will, however. If the wine is good, meaning not tainted, they can sell it off by the glass.
So, to answer the ops questions, if the wine is flawed, then yes, a restaurant or retailer should take it back. They can get refunded by the vendor who sold it to them. If you simply do not like the wine, then no, it is not acceptable to send it back. Another question the op asked later was about pouring a small taste vs. filling the glass. A small taste allows you to swirl the wine around a bit to get some oxygen into it to make a good assessment of the condition of the wine. A larger pour would make it difficult for one to swirl without getting wine everywhere.
There is no such thing as modern cork being plastic. There are corks, compressed cork enclosures, synthetic or plastic enclosures and screw caps. Corked wine refers to a wine that has been contaminated with TCA via the enclosure or through contamination of another container where it was stored at the winery prior to bottling. Its a bacteria that gets into the cork but there can be a number of different sources. I have recently had carrots and apples that have been corked.
http://www.cellarnotes.net/corked_wine.htm
Other sources of flawed wines can be things like oxidation and heat damage. Synthetic corks can taint wine by imparting it with chemical flavors. Volatile acidity can make a wine smell like acetone. A secondary fermentation can occur and that becomes obvious once the wine is poured and it has bubbles, with the exception of sparkling wines, where you want bubbles.
People have varying degrees of sensitivity to cork taint and a corked wine may have barely perceptible degrees of TCA when first opened will develop into a full blown, stinky wine with exposure to oxygen.
Both expensive and inexpensive wines can be corked, and even the best cellar practices cannot prevent TCA from contaminating the environment. It happens. The argument for Stelvin enclosures, or screwcaps, grows stronger and stronger but screwcap wines can also be tainted, hence the reason they continue to pour a taste when the wine is presented.
The taste of wine is purely subjective and everyone has a different palate. As a wine professional, I never want to lead a consumer by giving them my opinions on what I am tasting, I want them to decide for themselves whether or not they like it. Its OK to not like a particular wine. When selling wine to the trade, its more important to me to present a wine that has a particular place in their program. Do they have enough wines representative of Oregon, for example? Do they have any dry Rieslings on their wine list? Do they have room for a wine that will sell for $60 on their wine list, or better yet, do they have demand for a $60 bottle of wine? I sell my portfolio based on quality, experience of the producer, sustainability of their farming practices and lastly, when selling to a member of the trade, do I ever rely on the score. The points based system of rating wine has its limitations for too many reasons to get into here.
The terroir debate is real - certain wines have attributes that connect them to their place of origin. This identity is what we refer to as terroir.
I drink wine with my mouth and not my nose is in fact, a false statement, not an opinion at all. About 80% of what you can actually taste in a wine comes from the olfactory. The aromatics of a wine are integral to the experience. Try tasting a wine while wearing swimmers nose plugs and see how it differs from tasting the same wine without them.
There are good and bad wines everywhere and sadly, if one poster claims to never have had a good American wine, it is regrettable. There are some incredible wines out there and if you limit yourself to the industrial, supermarket, brand name wines, you are missing out on a great world out there. I travel all over the country selling wine and even in the smallest of towns, you find people interested in learning about good wine. Find a retailer who has the opportunity to taste many different wines from people like me and start exploring. They almost always (some states do not allow this) have in store tastings where you have the opportunity to taste different wines.
The days of 3x to 4x mark-up on restaurant lists is a thing of the past and if you come across a restaurant that is doing that, call them on it. Typical restaurant mark-up is 2.5x and retail markup is .3 to .5.
The beef argument no a cut of beef should not be described as having hints of chocolate or cherry but you can certainly detect subtle taste differences in how the cattle was raised, A factory farmed cut of meat will not have the same flavor or texture of a grass feed steer the same way a factory farmed bottle of fermented grape juice will not have the same qualities that a bottle of wine has that came from a great site, farmed with care and made by hand from people who view their finished product as the final culmination of a year of hard work.
I said many things here and repeated some as well. Hopefully this can clear up some things for people about wine but know that I am always happy to answer questions. You know were to find me.
Wine is a living thing so the purpose of having you taste the wine when its presented to you is to check for flaws, not to see if you like the wine. Good wine service is there to guide you into making a good choice, but if the wine is not to your liking, they dont necessarily have to take it back. Some places will, however. If the wine is good, meaning not tainted, they can sell it off by the glass.
So, to answer the ops questions, if the wine is flawed, then yes, a restaurant or retailer should take it back. They can get refunded by the vendor who sold it to them. If you simply do not like the wine, then no, it is not acceptable to send it back. Another question the op asked later was about pouring a small taste vs. filling the glass. A small taste allows you to swirl the wine around a bit to get some oxygen into it to make a good assessment of the condition of the wine. A larger pour would make it difficult for one to swirl without getting wine everywhere.
There is no such thing as modern cork being plastic. There are corks, compressed cork enclosures, synthetic or plastic enclosures and screw caps. Corked wine refers to a wine that has been contaminated with TCA via the enclosure or through contamination of another container where it was stored at the winery prior to bottling. Its a bacteria that gets into the cork but there can be a number of different sources. I have recently had carrots and apples that have been corked.
http://www.cellarnotes.net/corked_wine.htm
Other sources of flawed wines can be things like oxidation and heat damage. Synthetic corks can taint wine by imparting it with chemical flavors. Volatile acidity can make a wine smell like acetone. A secondary fermentation can occur and that becomes obvious once the wine is poured and it has bubbles, with the exception of sparkling wines, where you want bubbles.
People have varying degrees of sensitivity to cork taint and a corked wine may have barely perceptible degrees of TCA when first opened will develop into a full blown, stinky wine with exposure to oxygen.
Both expensive and inexpensive wines can be corked, and even the best cellar practices cannot prevent TCA from contaminating the environment. It happens. The argument for Stelvin enclosures, or screwcaps, grows stronger and stronger but screwcap wines can also be tainted, hence the reason they continue to pour a taste when the wine is presented.
The taste of wine is purely subjective and everyone has a different palate. As a wine professional, I never want to lead a consumer by giving them my opinions on what I am tasting, I want them to decide for themselves whether or not they like it. Its OK to not like a particular wine. When selling wine to the trade, its more important to me to present a wine that has a particular place in their program. Do they have enough wines representative of Oregon, for example? Do they have any dry Rieslings on their wine list? Do they have room for a wine that will sell for $60 on their wine list, or better yet, do they have demand for a $60 bottle of wine? I sell my portfolio based on quality, experience of the producer, sustainability of their farming practices and lastly, when selling to a member of the trade, do I ever rely on the score. The points based system of rating wine has its limitations for too many reasons to get into here.
The terroir debate is real - certain wines have attributes that connect them to their place of origin. This identity is what we refer to as terroir.
I drink wine with my mouth and not my nose is in fact, a false statement, not an opinion at all. About 80% of what you can actually taste in a wine comes from the olfactory. The aromatics of a wine are integral to the experience. Try tasting a wine while wearing swimmers nose plugs and see how it differs from tasting the same wine without them.
There are good and bad wines everywhere and sadly, if one poster claims to never have had a good American wine, it is regrettable. There are some incredible wines out there and if you limit yourself to the industrial, supermarket, brand name wines, you are missing out on a great world out there. I travel all over the country selling wine and even in the smallest of towns, you find people interested in learning about good wine. Find a retailer who has the opportunity to taste many different wines from people like me and start exploring. They almost always (some states do not allow this) have in store tastings where you have the opportunity to taste different wines.
The days of 3x to 4x mark-up on restaurant lists is a thing of the past and if you come across a restaurant that is doing that, call them on it. Typical restaurant mark-up is 2.5x and retail markup is .3 to .5.
The beef argument no a cut of beef should not be described as having hints of chocolate or cherry but you can certainly detect subtle taste differences in how the cattle was raised, A factory farmed cut of meat will not have the same flavor or texture of a grass feed steer the same way a factory farmed bottle of fermented grape juice will not have the same qualities that a bottle of wine has that came from a great site, farmed with care and made by hand from people who view their finished product as the final culmination of a year of hard work.
I said many things here and repeated some as well. Hopefully this can clear up some things for people about wine but know that I am always happy to answer questions. You know were to find me.
Suspended
Quote:
Wine is a living thing so the purpose of having you taste the wine when its presented to you is to check for flaws, not to see if you like the wine. Good wine service is there to guide you into making a good choice, but if the wine is not to your liking, they don’t necessarily have to take it back. Some places will, however. If the wine is good, meaning not tainted, they can sell it off by the glass.
So, to answer the op’s questions, if the wine is flawed, then yes, a restaurant or retailer should take it back. They can get refunded by the vendor who sold it to them. If you simply do not like the wine, then no, it is not acceptable to send it back. Another question the op asked later was about pouring a small taste vs. filling the glass. A small taste allows you to swirl the wine around a bit to get some oxygen into it to make a good assessment of the condition of the wine. A larger pour would make it difficult for one to swirl without getting wine everywhere.
There is no such thing as “modern cork being plastic”. There are corks, compressed cork enclosures, synthetic or plastic enclosures and screw caps. Corked wine refers to a wine that has been contaminated with TCA via the enclosure or through contamination of another container where it was stored at the winery prior to bottling. It’s a bacteria that gets into the cork but there can be a number of different sources. I have recently had carrots and apples that have been “corked”.
http://www.cellarnotes.net/corked_wine.htm
Other sources of flawed wines can be things like oxidation and heat damage. Synthetic corks can taint wine by imparting it with chemical flavors. Volatile acidity can make a wine smell like acetone. A secondary fermentation can occur and that becomes obvious once the wine is poured and it has bubbles, with the exception of sparkling wines, where you want bubbles.
People have varying degrees of sensitivity to cork taint and a corked wine may have barely perceptible degrees of TCA when first opened will develop into a full blown, stinky wine with exposure to oxygen.
Both expensive and inexpensive wines can be corked, and even the best cellar practices cannot prevent TCA from contaminating the environment. It happens. The argument for Stelvin enclosures, or screwcaps, grows stronger and stronger but screwcap wines can also be tainted, hence the reason they continue to pour a taste when the wine is presented.
The “taste” of wine is purely subjective and everyone has a different palate. As a wine professional, I never want to lead a consumer by giving them my opinions on what I am tasting, I want them to decide for themselves whether or not they like it. Its OK to not like a particular wine. When selling wine to the trade, its more important to me to present a wine that has a particular place in their program. Do they have enough wines representative of Oregon, for example? Do they have any dry Rieslings on their wine list? Do they have room for a wine that will sell for $60 on their wine list, or better yet, do they have demand for a $60 bottle of wine? I sell my portfolio based on quality, experience of the producer, sustainability of their farming practices and lastly, when selling to a member of the trade, do I ever rely on the “score”. The points based system of rating wine has its limitations for too many reasons to get into here.
The “terroir” debate is real - certain wines have attributes that connect them to their place of origin. This identity is what we refer to as “terroir”.
“I drink wine with my mouth and not my nose” is in fact, a false statement, not an opinion at all. About 80% of what you can actually “taste” in a wine comes from the olfactory. The aromatics of a wine are integral to the experience. Try tasting a wine while wearing swimmers nose plugs and see how it differs from tasting the same wine without them.
There are good and bad wines everywhere and sadly, if one poster claims to never have had a good American wine, it is regrettable. There are some incredible wines out there and if you limit yourself to the industrial, supermarket, brand name wines, you are missing out on a great world out there. I travel all over the country selling wine and even in the smallest of towns, you find people interested in learning about good wine. Find a retailer who has the opportunity to taste many different wines from people like me and start exploring. They almost always (some states do not allow this) have in store tastings where you have the opportunity to taste different wines.
The days of 3x to 4x mark-up on restaurant lists is a thing of the past and if you come across a restaurant that is doing that, call them on it. Typical restaurant mark-up is 2.5x and retail markup is .3 to .5.
The beef argument – no a cut of beef should not be described as having hints of chocolate or cherry but you can certainly detect subtle taste differences in how the cattle was raised, A factory farmed cut of meat will not have the same flavor or texture of a grass feed steer the same way a factory farmed bottle of fermented grape juice will not have the same qualities that a bottle of wine has that came from a great site, farmed with care and made by hand from people who view their finished product as the final culmination of a year of hard work.
I said many things here and repeated some as well. Hopefully this can clear up some things for people about wine but know that I am always happy to answer questions. You know were to find me.
Originally Posted by onthewineroute
I said enough about Showbizguru in my previous post. No need to go on about that gem any further than that. I just wanted to add things below as I went through the thread to, hopefully, clarify the loads of mis-information out there. Wine is a living thing so the purpose of having you taste the wine when its presented to you is to check for flaws, not to see if you like the wine. Good wine service is there to guide you into making a good choice, but if the wine is not to your liking, they don’t necessarily have to take it back. Some places will, however. If the wine is good, meaning not tainted, they can sell it off by the glass.
So, to answer the op’s questions, if the wine is flawed, then yes, a restaurant or retailer should take it back. They can get refunded by the vendor who sold it to them. If you simply do not like the wine, then no, it is not acceptable to send it back. Another question the op asked later was about pouring a small taste vs. filling the glass. A small taste allows you to swirl the wine around a bit to get some oxygen into it to make a good assessment of the condition of the wine. A larger pour would make it difficult for one to swirl without getting wine everywhere.
There is no such thing as “modern cork being plastic”. There are corks, compressed cork enclosures, synthetic or plastic enclosures and screw caps. Corked wine refers to a wine that has been contaminated with TCA via the enclosure or through contamination of another container where it was stored at the winery prior to bottling. It’s a bacteria that gets into the cork but there can be a number of different sources. I have recently had carrots and apples that have been “corked”.
http://www.cellarnotes.net/corked_wine.htm
Other sources of flawed wines can be things like oxidation and heat damage. Synthetic corks can taint wine by imparting it with chemical flavors. Volatile acidity can make a wine smell like acetone. A secondary fermentation can occur and that becomes obvious once the wine is poured and it has bubbles, with the exception of sparkling wines, where you want bubbles.
People have varying degrees of sensitivity to cork taint and a corked wine may have barely perceptible degrees of TCA when first opened will develop into a full blown, stinky wine with exposure to oxygen.
Both expensive and inexpensive wines can be corked, and even the best cellar practices cannot prevent TCA from contaminating the environment. It happens. The argument for Stelvin enclosures, or screwcaps, grows stronger and stronger but screwcap wines can also be tainted, hence the reason they continue to pour a taste when the wine is presented.
The “taste” of wine is purely subjective and everyone has a different palate. As a wine professional, I never want to lead a consumer by giving them my opinions on what I am tasting, I want them to decide for themselves whether or not they like it. Its OK to not like a particular wine. When selling wine to the trade, its more important to me to present a wine that has a particular place in their program. Do they have enough wines representative of Oregon, for example? Do they have any dry Rieslings on their wine list? Do they have room for a wine that will sell for $60 on their wine list, or better yet, do they have demand for a $60 bottle of wine? I sell my portfolio based on quality, experience of the producer, sustainability of their farming practices and lastly, when selling to a member of the trade, do I ever rely on the “score”. The points based system of rating wine has its limitations for too many reasons to get into here.
The “terroir” debate is real - certain wines have attributes that connect them to their place of origin. This identity is what we refer to as “terroir”.
“I drink wine with my mouth and not my nose” is in fact, a false statement, not an opinion at all. About 80% of what you can actually “taste” in a wine comes from the olfactory. The aromatics of a wine are integral to the experience. Try tasting a wine while wearing swimmers nose plugs and see how it differs from tasting the same wine without them.
There are good and bad wines everywhere and sadly, if one poster claims to never have had a good American wine, it is regrettable. There are some incredible wines out there and if you limit yourself to the industrial, supermarket, brand name wines, you are missing out on a great world out there. I travel all over the country selling wine and even in the smallest of towns, you find people interested in learning about good wine. Find a retailer who has the opportunity to taste many different wines from people like me and start exploring. They almost always (some states do not allow this) have in store tastings where you have the opportunity to taste different wines.
The days of 3x to 4x mark-up on restaurant lists is a thing of the past and if you come across a restaurant that is doing that, call them on it. Typical restaurant mark-up is 2.5x and retail markup is .3 to .5.
The beef argument – no a cut of beef should not be described as having hints of chocolate or cherry but you can certainly detect subtle taste differences in how the cattle was raised, A factory farmed cut of meat will not have the same flavor or texture of a grass feed steer the same way a factory farmed bottle of fermented grape juice will not have the same qualities that a bottle of wine has that came from a great site, farmed with care and made by hand from people who view their finished product as the final culmination of a year of hard work.
I said many things here and repeated some as well. Hopefully this can clear up some things for people about wine but know that I am always happy to answer questions. You know were to find me.
The great thing about wine is that you can pass on your pearls of wisdom to the uninitiated that have no doubt been garnered from lots of swishing and swirling and sniffing and sommeliering as a " wine professional " and I can open a bottle of two-buck chuck and pass judgement on it.
Neither of us is right or wrong because apart from being bollocks wine is subjective.
And opinions are like a-holes ...everyone has one.
I don't judge you for drinking TBC. Drink what you like is what I always tell people. I agree with you on one point, wine is subjective.
There really is no such thing as snobby wine, just snobby people.
There really is no such thing as snobby wine, just snobby people.
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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There really is no such thing as snobby wine, just snobby people.
they are "label" drinkers. the pseudo pshsticates who know fine DOM, or great Crystal, or some other label, but turn their nose up at salon, particularly after tasting that garbage. saloon?? dreck.Originally Posted by onthewineroute
I don't judge you for drinking TBC. Drink what you like is what I always tell people. I agree with you on one point, wine is subjective. There really is no such thing as snobby wine, just snobby people.
Quote:
amen !!!! ^ Originally Posted by slawecki
they are "label" drinkers. the pseudo pshsticates who know fine DOM, or great Crystal, or some other label, but turn their nose up at salon, particularly after tasting that garbage. saloon?? dreck.
Quote:
Neither of us is right or wrong because apart from being bollocks wine is subjective.
And opinions are like a-holes ...everyone has one.
Interesting.... so then, in your opinion, would you be able to tell the difference between a Charles Schwab Chardonnay and a $50 bottle from a respected grower under conditions of a proper blind tasting...?Originally Posted by Showbizguru
The great thing about wine is that you can pass on your pearls of wisdom to the uninitiated that have no doubt been garnered from lots of swishing and swirling and sniffing and sommeliering as a " wine professional " and I can open a bottle of two-buck chuck and pass judgement on it.Neither of us is right or wrong because apart from being bollocks wine is subjective.
And opinions are like a-holes ...everyone has one.
Quote:
Agreed... ^Originally Posted by onthewineroute
There really is no such thing as snobby wine, just snobby people.
Also, the internet is full of opinionated 'wine experts' that become quite the novice when you encounter them in the real world, and they are 'forced' to say their tasting notes out loud...
Quote:
Interesting.... so then, in your opinion, would you be able to tell the difference between a Charles Schwab Chardonnay and a $50 bottle from a respected grower under conditions of a proper blind tasting...?
I find this to be true every time I have some wine novices taste a really great wine. They are often startled at how good a well made wine can be compared to the stuff that they are used to drinking. By well made, I don't mean expensive either. There are some really great well made wines out there for much less than some of the industrial galloconstellationfosters plonk that crowds the aisles in supermarkets. Originally Posted by Gaucho100K
Interesting.... so then, in your opinion, would you be able to tell the difference between a Charles Schwab Chardonnay and a $50 bottle from a respected grower under conditions of a proper blind tasting...?
A really great column in the NYT yesterday illustrates a good point. Develop a relationship with a good small wine merchant in your neighborhood and learn to trust their guidance. They will always try and steer you in the right direction. Shops like these can be found all over the country, not just in New York and they all have regular tastings, giving you the opportunity to start tasting different wine in all price points from many parts of the world.
Be wary of the lazy retailer who simply sells a wine on press or scores, however. The pendulum is shifting and a new group of wine consumers is working their way up the ranks who eschew the normative critics and are developing their own palates.
http://thepour.blogs.nytimes.com/201...ys-wine-shops/
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Wine faults are numerous, from improper storage, heat damage, improper sealing mechanism (corks, real and synthetic, screw caps...). As a wine collector, the most common defect I encounter is cork "taint" known as TCA.
2,4,6-trichloroanisole (TCA) imparts a moldy, wet cardboard sort of taste/smell. There are varying degrees of taint that affect people differently. I've been to tastings with people who know a lot about wine and find that for the same bottle, some find it undrinkable while others find it, at worst, mildly less than ideal.
When served wine in a rest. it typically takes me more than just the initial taste to be absolutely certain that the wine is okay.
More important to the wine drinker than TCA is BAC. Its all about getting the drink on. Everything else is just a justification. Otherwise they'd all be drinking grape juice which tastes better than any wine.Originally Posted by tsutton
Wow...lot's of misinformation so far...Wine faults are numerous, from improper storage, heat damage, improper sealing mechanism (corks, real and synthetic, screw caps...). As a wine collector, the most common defect I encounter is cork "taint" known as TCA.
2,4,6-trichloroanisole (TCA) imparts a moldy, wet cardboard sort of taste/smell. There are varying degrees of taint that affect people differently. I've been to tastings with people who know a lot about wine and find that for the same bottle, some find it undrinkable while others find it, at worst, mildly less than ideal.
When served wine in a rest. it typically takes me more than just the initial taste to be absolutely certain that the wine is okay.
Quote:
If that was true, we would all just do vodka shots. Originally Posted by MrClean
More important to the wine drinker than TCA is BAC. Its all about getting the drink on. Everything else is just a justification. Otherwise they'd all be drinking grape juice which tastes better than any wine.
There is a huge glut of wine grapes world-wide, and a slightly less-huge glut of cheap wine -- some of it quite good, some not so good. This causes lots of scope for arbitrage, in finding cheap wines made from the same grapes as more expensive wines. Vinification skills have improved so much in the past 20 years that there is little badly made wine now.
The wine trade has followed cheaper labour costs around the world; first to Australia and NZ, then to South Africa and South America. Successful vineyards will have to go one of 2 routes: lowest cost, or "terroir". I recently had this discussion with a famous wine maker, who commented that for the past decade he had used his skills to correct the "flaws" in a wine -- i.e. change the terroir characteristics to become whatever the market wanted. Now he has decided that is the wrong way, and in the future will use vinification to accentuate the terroir rather than suppress it or mold it. There is such a glut of grapes, of high quality, that he can pick and choose the grapes for the right terroir to match what the market wants. Which is great for the wine makers, not so great for the vineyard owners -- unless they happen to have the right terroir. In the long run this approach should improve all wines, if it becomes industry practice: the "right" varieties of grapes will be planted for each location, based on how they grow and not on what varieties are in demand. Eventually all vineyards will become first growth
The wine trade has followed cheaper labour costs around the world; first to Australia and NZ, then to South Africa and South America. Successful vineyards will have to go one of 2 routes: lowest cost, or "terroir". I recently had this discussion with a famous wine maker, who commented that for the past decade he had used his skills to correct the "flaws" in a wine -- i.e. change the terroir characteristics to become whatever the market wanted. Now he has decided that is the wrong way, and in the future will use vinification to accentuate the terroir rather than suppress it or mold it. There is such a glut of grapes, of high quality, that he can pick and choose the grapes for the right terroir to match what the market wants. Which is great for the wine makers, not so great for the vineyard owners -- unless they happen to have the right terroir. In the long run this approach should improve all wines, if it becomes industry practice: the "right" varieties of grapes will be planted for each location, based on how they grow and not on what varieties are in demand. Eventually all vineyards will become first growth
Quote:
The only time I've sent back a bad bottle at a restaurant was a $30 Aussie white with a plastic stopper.Originally Posted by Gaucho100K
Please let us not forget that the poor cork is many times not to blame for wine spoilage.... corked wines can very well have nothing to do with the stoppers but rather with winery hygene issues. Yes, cork can have issues and has developed a lot of poor press over the years, but its not always the culprit.
Wine appreciation is just that. Appreciation. And appreciation is something you learn over time, whether it is art or food or women, etc.
As a younger man, the only wine I liked was Miller, the Champagne of Beers.
But after living in France for a number of years, and specifically in Burgundy, I have learned so much about wine that I have a very high appreciation of it. This is good and bad. The bad part is that I can no longer drink poor quality wine. And most of what you find in the world, as a traveler, is poor quality wine unless you pay a lot. In France, and a few other special places, you can get very good quality wine for a decent price if you know where to look.
Some places I go I simply don't drink the wine. I would rather drink beer. But if I have a chance to drink a very good wine, I always go for it. Note however what I mean by very good wine doesn't mean famous brand or expensive bottle. In fact where I live, the best wines may not even have labels.
As a younger man, the only wine I liked was Miller, the Champagne of Beers.
But after living in France for a number of years, and specifically in Burgundy, I have learned so much about wine that I have a very high appreciation of it. This is good and bad. The bad part is that I can no longer drink poor quality wine. And most of what you find in the world, as a traveler, is poor quality wine unless you pay a lot. In France, and a few other special places, you can get very good quality wine for a decent price if you know where to look.
Some places I go I simply don't drink the wine. I would rather drink beer. But if I have a chance to drink a very good wine, I always go for it. Note however what I mean by very good wine doesn't mean famous brand or expensive bottle. In fact where I live, the best wines may not even have labels.
In memoriam
I will admit that I was tempted to defect to the philistine camp
while attending a wine dinner where my dining companion and I
were the only ones at table who noticed that the glasses hadn't
been properly rinsed; all the rest of them were snuffling the wine
and saying wonderful things while ignoring the Calgon nose.
while attending a wine dinner where my dining companion and I
were the only ones at table who noticed that the glasses hadn't
been properly rinsed; all the rest of them were snuffling the wine
and saying wonderful things while ignoring the Calgon nose.
Suspended
Quote:
I've had wine costing a few euros out of an industrial-sized vat in a dusty roadside bodegas in Spain that's gone into an empty half-gallon milk container that has been far superior to any hundred dollar piece of Napa Valley hype.
American wine buffs actually believe their own nonsense whereas the French know they're just continuing a centuries-old con trick.
But the best example of all is Australia. They steam-rollered the traditional French dominance of the market by producing cheap,fruity drinkable plonk that everyone loved.
And then they got ideas above their station, put up the price and produced bespoke this and boutique that.
Result ? The Chileans sneaked in unnoticed. And that's why they produce the best good,cheap,fruity plonk loved the world over.
Snobby wine is a con originated by wine makers and promoted by restauranters to artificially hike up the value of average plonk and thus their profits.
Originally Posted by Showbizguru
That's just the sort of half-baked winey nonsense I was on about.I've had wine costing a few euros out of an industrial-sized vat in a dusty roadside bodegas in Spain that's gone into an empty half-gallon milk container that has been far superior to any hundred dollar piece of Napa Valley hype.
American wine buffs actually believe their own nonsense whereas the French know they're just continuing a centuries-old con trick.
But the best example of all is Australia. They steam-rollered the traditional French dominance of the market by producing cheap,fruity drinkable plonk that everyone loved.
And then they got ideas above their station, put up the price and produced bespoke this and boutique that.
Result ? The Chileans sneaked in unnoticed. And that's why they produce the best good,cheap,fruity plonk loved the world over.
Snobby wine is a con originated by wine makers and promoted by restauranters to artificially hike up the value of average plonk and thus their profits.
A Chilean wine beat two of Bordeaux's Premier crus, two California wines and a Super Tuscan in a blind tasting by 100 of New York's top critics, sommeliers and retailers on Monday.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddr...d-tasting.html