When I was living in France I was told by a Frenchman that the only wine worth drinking was that which was bottled at the chateau. This was years ago and I have been following it ever since, avoiding wines in the store that are bottled by the proprietor or, Heaven forbid, bottled in the cellars.

But am I right in assuming a certain quality from Chateau-bottled French wines? Thoughts?

Maybe years and years ago sure, but now it's ridiculous to follow that as a general rule these days.

So you're saying my Frenchman was out to lunch, eh?

For what reasons is it better? I have no opinion in the matter...

I unfortunately never got the whole story, but I believe it is a French regulation that bottlers tell you where they do the bottling (and that tells you where they got the grapes).

On the chateau: grapes come from the vineyard at the chateau.

By the properitere: grapes could come from lots of vineyards.

In the cellars: God knows where the grapes come from.


Any French folks here who can chime in?

I'll add to this later, but to disagree:

very little wine from the west coast of usa would qualify. huge amount comes from fine vineyards and are mfgd in warehouses.

very little wine from italy would qualify.

the french, in burgundy brought in rhone to make burgundy decent.

the french, in burgundy brought in wine from algers to mislabel

the french in burgundy brought in wine from italy to mislabel

one of the largest burgundy producers served hard time for phony mis en domain bottle labels.

very little burgundy is truly mis en domain, as the plots are way too small.

Bordeaux has no territorial regs. the grapes can come from anywhere within the region. a number of the Bordeaux are bottled off premises.

very little champagn is mid.

many great wines from oz use bought grapes.

For many years, even up through the 1960s, many of what we consider to be "fine" French wines like Burgundies and even Bordeaux (although not as bad) were not bottled by the chateau/domaine. Negociants (essentially wholesale merchants) would buy barrels of wine from producers large and small, and then blend (sometimes) and then bottle the wines. So wines from famous producers like Leroy, would actually have different labels with their names on them b/c barrels were sold to different negociants.
Negociants, in the old days, were notorious for adulterating wines with other varietals or with cheaper wines, or "mislabeling" wines (important in Burgundy).

So the idea that wine is "best" when bottled "by the chateau/domaine" was at one time valid.

These days, it's not as important. 99.9999% of the time you are buying a bottle of wine that matches whatever is on the label.

I too have heard that "au chateau" was the way to go.

In addition, I always look for bottles made out of heavier (thicker) glass, and with a deeper punt. This "rule", suggested to me a by a French friend (in France) has a 90% success rate.

a lot of the distressed wine goes into distressed bottles. a lot of them are very heavy. glass is cheap. shipping is expensive, however. many fine wines are in standard thickness bottles. i think most gran cru class bordeaux are in a std weight bottle. most burgundy is in a regular bottle. as is fine german, alsace, tuscan,spanish , new zeland, australian.

One of our French friends calls this "mis en bouteille par hasard," which I have always liked as a descriptive turn of phrase.

Very well could have been, these days with what's going on in France, I wouldn't use that criteria to determine the quality.

glass isn't cheap anymore, or haven't you been following the biz?

I can speak with authority that the best wines produced in Alabama are not made with local grapes.

These are some major miscalculations.


You are missing out on a lot of great wines made by negociants and wineries that don't grow their own grapes.

For example:
Joseph Drouhin
Jorge Ordonez
Kermit Lynch

There are hundreds of great winemakers out there who do amazing things with other people's grapes, or even by blending together finished wines. The nature of the industry, especially in the New World, is such that a winemaker may earn his reputation at a traditional chateau, then break out on his own to make wines (and $$$$) by putting his special touch on these cuvees.

You must be one of those people who buy Bearboat wines in spite of the taste.

LOL no my response above was mostly tongue-in-cheek. Mostly.

However, I will add this little tidbit: I divide wines into three categories: $500 that are an utter and complete waste of money, $50 wine that is *always* great and therefore worth the extra scratch, and $5 wine that I drink most of the time, because WINE IS JUST GRAPE JUICE and all that crap about "terroir" and climate and dirt and all the labels and blah blah blah is just a way for smart merchant to extract cash from gullible snobs.

Take it from someone who grew up in Italy and has been drinking vino da tavola since he was seven. And liking it just fine. Grape juice!