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-   -   I hate tipping, how can we end it? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/diningbuzz/1025173-i-hate-tipping-how-can-we-end.html)

BadgerBoi Aug 11, 2013 4:41 am


Originally Posted by mandolino (Post 21251694)
Well, there's no such thing as a free lunch, anywhere, so you're paying for staff wages one way or another, whether by tipping in the USA, or by higher menu prices in Australia to cover the fixed wages and evening and weekend penalty rates.

As many can attest, restaurant staff in the USA can do very well out of tips.

I'm quite aware of that, and as I said I'm happy to pay my way - I've never asked for a free lunch in my life. But by using customers as de facto paymasters that's exactly what those foreign restaurant owners are doing.

Flubber2012 Aug 11, 2013 4:44 am


Originally Posted by User Name (Post 21251662)
And some Internet heroes who feel safe and smug doling out insults towards strangers while cowering behind the anonymity of a computer.

Do you feel especially manly having defended the honor of cheap, misantropic FTers? :D

BadgerBoi Aug 11, 2013 4:54 am


Originally Posted by Flubber2012 (Post 21251790)
Do you feel especially manly having defended the honor of cheap, misantropic FTers? :D

And who specifically are these "cheap, misantropic (sic) FTers"?

Flubber2012 Aug 11, 2013 5:02 am

"Cheap" and "misanthropic" are subjective.

Who do you nominate?

Fredd Aug 11, 2013 5:07 am


Originally Posted by englisha (Post 21251766)
As a non American, I think its very confusing when we should tip or not. When I first visited America, I messed it up several times by firstly undertipping then overcompensated later so as not to offend...

Mrs. Fredd and I are now visiting South Africa and empathize with your confusion.

Realizing that many people here rely on tips for their income (as some do in the U.S.), we want to get it right and neither undertip nor overtip.

Yet various "authorities" differ greatly as to the appropriate amounts for some services. As one example, one site authoritatively states that an appropriate tip for hotel maids in a luxury property is the Rand equivalent of US $5-10 daily. :eek: Other sites say $1-2 so we'll go with that.

As to your other experiences, I sympathize as well. It's hard to tell with taxi drivers. Your tip seems adequate to me. If you had thrown an additional buck that suddenly becomes a very large % tip.

I wonder if it was something of a reaction to you as a foreigner (if your accent identified you as one) and trying to bully you into a larger tip, just as I notice sometimes in other countries when the taxi driver expects a large tip because I'm an American and my countrymen have set some unfortunate precedents. I've experienced the next thing to a snarl in a couple of European countries even when I know I've tipped fairly by local standards.

Still, that taxi driver might have given any American a hard time as well for the same tip.

orthar Aug 11, 2013 5:44 am


Originally Posted by whackyjacky (Post 21251674)
I love tipping. Paying for performance. The competent & energetic get rewarded. The clueless & disinterested get punished. Not everyone has the personality for the service industry. The good ones make $$. The others do not & eventually figure out that they had better do something else for a living.

Are you serious? How is giving an automatic 15% tip to everyone 'paying for performance'?
If I were a waiter and I received 15% for poor/ordinary service, and 15-20% for going out of my way to perform better.. I'd stick with the guaranteed 15% :)

whackyjacky Aug 11, 2013 7:11 am


Originally Posted by orthar (Post 21251903)
Are you serious? How is giving an automatic 15% tip to everyone 'paying for performance'?
If I were a waiter and I received 15% for poor/ordinary service, and 15-20% for going out of my way to perform better.. I'd stick with the guaranteed 15% :)

For some reason you have no conception of what I meant. In the States I have the option of tipping or not. I have given well in excess of 100% tips and I've given zero with a note critiquing their service and my displeasure. Where did you get the automatic 15% thing from my post ? That's certainly not how it works in the US & especially with me.

orthar Aug 11, 2013 7:41 am


Originally Posted by whackyjacky (Post 21252156)
For some reason you have no conception of what I meant. In the States I have the option of tipping or not. I have given well in excess of 100% tips and I've given zero with a note critiquing their service and my displeasure. Where did you get the automatic 15% thing from my post ? That's certainly not how it works in the US & especially with me.

Not according to my extensive experience, along with others in this thread. Ever try tipping 10% in Manhattan after bad service? I have, and I've been treated like crap at that particular restaurant ever since.

Do you think the majority of people in the US act like you when confronted with bad service?

Kettering Northants QC Aug 11, 2013 7:49 am

In saner parts of the world terrible service is not an excuse to
(a) reduce one's tip to 15% down from the customary 20%
or
(b) reduce one's tip down to 0% and leave a note explaining your reasoning

it should be (c)
Call the manager over, tell him the service was rubbish, tell him why, tell him it's his responsibility, ask for recompense / discount, pay the bill and leave no tip

cruisr Aug 11, 2013 8:01 am

I love Japan
 
No tipping solicited or expected. Excellent service everywhere we have been also.

whackyjacky Aug 11, 2013 11:41 am


Originally Posted by orthar (Post 21252261)
Not according to my extensive experience, along with others in this thread. Ever try tipping 10% in Manhattan after bad service? I have, and I've been treated like crap at that particular restaurant ever since.

Do you think the majority of people in the US act like you when confronted with bad service?

I'd love to bow to your "extensive experience", but I've got a little bit of my own. I tended bar in SF for 20+ years and ended up owning a bar and 3 restaurants over the years. First of all, I don't think most people can differentiate between bad service, a kitchen problem, and a waiter buried with tables. In all my stores and just about every place I worked, any overt reaction to a bad tip was cause for dismissal. Most places will suspend you for a week, if they don't can your *ss. I've fired good waiters and good friends for this. When working for somebody else, I had a guy buy the house 6 rounds (400 + drinks) and stiff me. I kept my mouth shut. I've also had plenty of $100 tips on a couple drinks. The staff has to be taught that it all evens out. They always want to forget the great tips they got for doing absolutely nothing. I always tell 'em to worry about your tips by the week and save yourselves the aggravation. Maybe a dozen times I've stiffed a waiter due to indifference and each time I was absolutely furious. I'm easier on incompetents as long as they're trying.

orthar Aug 11, 2013 11:45 am


Originally Posted by whackyjacky (Post 21253341)
I'd love to bow to your "extensive experience", but I've got a little bit of my own. I tended bar in SF for 20+ years and ended up owning a bar and 3 restaurants over the years. First of all, I don't think most people can differentiate between bad service, a kitchen problem, and a waiter buried with tables. In all my stores and just about every place I worked, any overt reaction to a bad tip was cause for dismissal. Most places will suspend you for a week, if they don't can your *ss. I've fired good waiters and good friends for this. When working for somebody else, I had a guy buy the house 6 rounds (400 + drinks) and stiff me. I kept my mouth shut. I've also had plenty of $100 tips on a couple drinks. The staff has to be taught that it all evens out. They always want to forget the great tips they got for doing absolutely nothing. I always tell 'em to worry about your tips by the week and save yourselves the aggravation.

That's great for you and your establishments, but as a customer I've gotten plenty of bad reactions. This thread, and just about any other tipping thread in FT, is full of such stories.

nkedel Aug 11, 2013 12:33 pm


Originally Posted by cbn42 (Post 21251744)
Usually I just tip the standard 15%, but I adjust it in either direction as appropriate.

That's normal, not cheap.


Originally Posted by englisha (Post 21251766)
I got a cab, the fare was about 9.20 USD and gave him 10 and said keep the change...he wasnt impressed, whereas thatd be fine in the UK. Hadnt realised id insulted him and called him again the next day and he kept us waiting 45 mins and drove past us twice and said "this time you'll give me a real tip"

You really can't win with taxis; unlike waitstaff, there's not nearly such a consistent rule, and IME urban driving it's a job that tends to turn people disagreeable.

I'm not sure where you were that you'd be calling an individual metered taxi (or where non-metered would be an odd rate like $9.20), or where taxis would be so scarce that you'd wait for 45 minutes rather than hailing another one or calling a different service.


Originally Posted by orthar (Post 21252261)
Not according to my extensive experience, along with others in this thread. Ever try tipping 10% in Manhattan after bad service? I have, and I've been treated like crap at that particular restaurant ever since.

I can't say I've gone anywhere in Manhattan regularly enough to worry about service the next time in about 20 years, but if I were a regular someplace (or thinking I'd be back regularly, although poor service on a first trip would be the sort of thing to disincline me from doing so!) I'd be inclined to speak to the manager over anything that required me to reduce my tip significantly.


Originally Posted by Kettering Northants QC (Post 21252295)
(a) reduce one's tip to 15% down from the customary 20%

Luckily, in most of the states 15% is still within the customary range.


it should be (c) Call the manager over, tell him the service was rubbish, tell him why, tell him it's his responsibility, ask for recompense / discount, pay the bill and leave no tip
Certainly.

In some cases, you can nip the bad service in the bud partway through the meal, get the manager to address it before the entire meal is ruined.

Ancien Maestro Aug 11, 2013 12:36 pm


Originally Posted by orthar (Post 21253363)
That's great for you and your establishments, but as a customer I've gotten plenty of bad reactions. This thread, and just about any other tipping thread in FT, is full of such stories.

I'd like to say that these examples of tipping less got the message across quite effectively. Better then a comment card to the manager. The establishment can either be professional about it and try better or react negatively and risk getting tipped less or losing a customer. I wouldnt take bad reactions personally. I've tipped less at establishments I frequented but upon returning to good service, I would tip more.

englisha Aug 11, 2013 1:28 pm


Originally Posted by nkedel (Post 21253603)
.
I'm not sure where you were that you'd be calling an individual metered taxi (or where non-metered would be an odd rate like $9.20), or where taxis would be so scarce that you'd wait for 45 minutes rather than hailing another one or calling a different service.

It was in West Palm beach. Was a driver who''d we'd had the day before and who'd given us his personal number (before we'd paid). As I thought we'd gotten along well, we waited, plus we were on holiday there and didnt know any better.
My point is that as a tourist I want to tip normally for the place i'm at but often don't know how much that is and even not sure on all circumstances when its applicable.


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