Gargoyle

Per an AP story this morning: Paid B/E and F are down accross the board this year. For March it fell 3.9% compared to last year (this is overall for U.S. airlines), the largest decline in 5 years. Even factoring in an early Easter it was still a significant drop.

So, current airline policy isn't filling the front of the bus; they should try some other things, like easing options for top-tier fliers. (the drop was more significant in short haul than long haul, so DL might not have enough incentive to change the system)

GUWonder

That's not the main reason, but it was amongst the DL spin for this kind of customer-unfriendly policy. What percentage of DL Platinums are willing to tie-up thousands or tens of thousands of dollars such as to hope to throw off DL's inventory management? I would guess that it was not any greater than the number of DL Platinums that now do such a thing to get access to SkyTeam lounges when on a US-only itinerary. Most DL Platinums never did such a thing so DL sought out a problem to fix that would accomplish its real goals.

The main reason for this policy is that DL wanted to reduce customer expectations of discounted access to a perishable product. In other words, DL wanted to price itself like luxury hotels which don't discount and prefer an empty room rather than selling their room at below their published ordinary rates so as to manage repeat customer expectations.

GUWonder

The front of the cabin is probably going to take more of a hit during the remainder of the year than it already has.

GUWonder

Most all of those entitled to buy F and using OPM to pay for travel -- which is most of the F-paying forward cabin customers -- are routinely willing to gamble on an upgrade? Not really.

pbarnette

CO has announced a change to their practice (link). Important to note is the cash flow benefit of this to CO, as they are shifting from charging the co-pay at the time of upgrade to co-pay at the time you request the upgrade, even if it doesn't clear right away. They will refund your money if it doesn't clear, but they keep it in their bank until then.

As for whether there is a real problem with no-shows because of people cancelling tickets once upgrades clear, I am with GUWonder and can't imagine it ever had a real and material impact.

redtailshark

Some employed by CO think otherwise. Search for posts by SFOgate on the CO board - this issue was discussed in detail there.

pbarnette

Good for them. I know it is the company line. I just don't believe it passes the smell test. And I have seen nothing on the CO board that comes close to proving that it is or was a serious problem.

I already read most of the discussions, and, with all due respect to SFOgate, I presume that anyone posting on a public message board about revenue doesn't really have access to the information that would really prove the point. Anyone who actually has access to such information is (or at least should be) keenly aware that making such posts would be unethical and perhaps even illegal. So, I'm supposed to assume that posts about revenue issues, provided as blanket assertions, are to be taken as fact, because a gate agent at a CO station says it is true?

My rule is not to believe any financial information that is not released in a public way. Even if the post is from a senior person like CO Insider, unless it is released somewhere other than FT, I have to assume that it is immaterial, which was the second qualification to my statement. Maybe this makes me a cynic, but since the other option is believing that someone is acting unethically, it might also mean I believe in the inherent goodness of my fellow man.

And, though I'm sure this post will be taken the wrong way, I urge folks not to. I appreciate the insights that the many insiders offer as to baggage rules, upgrade lists, etc. But none of this rises to the level of discussing non-public financial information. There is nobody with the handle of DLFinanceGuy on FT for good reason.

RobertS975

Just to clarify, DL does indeed do day of departure Z upgrades, but not at the gate! So about four hours ahead of departure time, if the Z hasn't cleared, then it absolutely will not.

There have been many threads dealing with the issues brought up by the OP, indeed many dozens of threads. DLPhoenix is a new member of FT. The subject he raises in this thread is certainly not new though!

DukieDrew

Something that might ameliorate the situation is if DL stopped charging change fees for fare upgrades. In other words, if I originally bought an LUT ticket (with $200 change fee), and decided later that if Z was available I'd like to upgrade to YBM, I'd have to pay the difference in fare plus the change fee. If I'm flying the same dates and same flights and going to bump up to a higher class, I think that fee should be waived.

rylan

Um... I didn't think they're supposed to charge a change fee if you upgrade to a higher fare class. I've done that and asked about no fee since I'm going to a higher fare on the same flight and I wasn't charged.

MikeyZBT

Absolutely true.

DukieDrew

Interesting, that hasn't been my experience at least last February.

RobertS975

The trouble is this: the most likely time to open up some Z seats is so close to departure that the only inventory one could switch into was Y or perhaps B... now you are talking some real chunk of change to upgrade the fare class, change fee or no!

DevilDog438

I just booked BWI-NRT for next Wednesday and returning the following week, using PMU at time of booking to confirm both ways over the water. Only flight missing is the ATL-BWI final leg when I get home. Booked B for $2200 - cheapest was K @ 1900 due to the late nature of the planning.

DLPhoenix

1) I am very happy to learn that some of you had better luck than I had. I hope to have a similar experience in the future.
2) Am I the only one to be in a situation where Z class was not available when you made the resrvation, you elected to buy Q (or L,U, or T) for $500 less, and the flight departed with an empty seat in BE (i.e. $500 in lost revenue for Delta and a big disapointment fo yurself)?

DLP