OldRoyal

I've seen this topic touched upon but never addressed directly: what is the rationale behind operating a domestic version of business class?

I was on DL 108, LAX-ATL, last week. It was a 767-400, configured with seven rows of business class, 2x2x2, and was listed on my ticket as business class. These were not the business elite seats, but were similar to standard domestic FC seats, except with an IFE system at each seat. The flight number continues on to Madrid, but not the aircraft. I am assuming that the ATL-MAD portion is flown with a standard business elite configuration.

Here's my question: why have a separate configuration of business class that is only flown domestically? Doesn't that add unnecessary complexity? If DL wants the flight number to continue through to MAD, but still has a change of aircraft in ATL, why not fly a standard domestic aircraft from LAX to ATL? Are there that many passengers that are flying from LAX through to MAD that they need the extra business class seats this configuation provides?

DevilDog438

There are no specific airframe changes for A/C that are designated as Business on a Domestic segment. The A/C will, with some rare exceptions, be a standard Domestic A/C equipped with whatever its normal FC complement is supposed to be. Some will have IFE (either AVOD pods or IFE Headrests, depending on refresh interval), some will not, depends on the age/refresh interval for the particular airframe assigned at the time of scheduling each flight leg.

DL lists the flight as Business when the flight number assignment is an INTL flight that has one or more domestic segments, regardless of A/C flown. It is still a Domestic FC product, subject to the normal fleet variations.

RamAir

Delta flight 108 is the flight number to MAD. Even if the aircraft doesn't connect from LAX-ATL-MAD, the flight number does and the system sells the premium cabin on all segments as J. Marketing has decided that there is an advantage in selling certaing flights as 'direct' but 'one stop' to whatever destination. Sometimes there is even equipment changes along the route but the flight is now sold as direct.
SR

yngdiego

Marketing has their head where the light doesn't shine! This is highly confusing for passengers and even some FAs. I was on a MCO-ATL flight a couple of months ago and at MCO the flight was showing as going to Dublin. When we touched down in ATL the FAs weren't sure if the aircraft was going to Dublin or whether there was a gate change. They finally figured it out and made an announcement that there was a gate change and some pax were confused.

If the A/C is the same, then I see no problems. But if just the flight number is continuing with a change in aircraft, their scheme makes *zero* sense to me and only leads to PAX/FA confusion. They should put a stop to this confusing scheme.

SpeedyJEP

Somewhere here on FT, I think someone suggested that search engines often list 'direct' (but one stop) routings before routes with a connection. So in this case, searches for LAX-MAD would return this 'direct' 1-stop plane change in ATL routing offered by Delta before competitors' connection routings.

Not sure if I remember that correctly, though, so don't quote me on it.

brown069

So any idea if the domestic portion of Delta 28 (MCO-ATL-CDG) will feature the true Biz Elite seats up front? It shows a 7 row 2x2x2 front cabin, and today's flight from MCO to ATL arrived at gate E3 which is the same departure gate as the ATL-CDG leg.

Maybe they use these Int'l configured 764s on short domestic routes (like ATL-MCO)?

OldRoyal

I can't speak to DL 28, but the seven row 2x2x2 configuation was exactly what I was in on flight 108. Business class but certainly not business elite.

dlen111

all airlines do this. when searching msy-lgw, a direct flight shows up as CO07 or something like that. it does not show as a connection.

in little letters at the bottom it says, "flight 07 stops in IAH. ground time is 1 hours 30 minutes. CO07 has an equipment change from a 737-300 to a 777-200." quite deceiving. this direct flight has a 1.5 hour layover and a an AC change. oh, and the kicker, you only get the true air mileage of a nonstop MSY-LGW flight and are only awarded one flight segment.

on DL, there is always a chance that you may be on a BE equppied AC from, say, MCO to ATL or LAX to ATL. or even between other hubs. it could or could not have a business class designation. just know that if it DOES have a business class designation, it is most likely due to the fact that the flight number (not neccessaerily that AC) continues as a business class flight and has nothing to do with the configuration of the AC on that US domestic segment.

and to complicate things even more there are domestically configured AC that operate intl route flight numbers (ie, carribean, central america, mexico, etc) that are also listed as business. this again is marketing at its best. all other intl airlines consider their fornt cabins "business class" unless they offer a true intl FC product. so your getting what you'd think is DL biz, but its merely DL domestic FC.

ClipperDelta

There is a difference. While both the domestic and BE 764s have 7 rows in the premium cabin, the tricks are to look for where door 2L is on the seatmap, and how many premium cabin seats there actually are:

1) Even though the 764 domestics have 7 rows, there are only 36 seats (there is no 1A,B,E,F, or 2A,B); the BE 764s have 7 rows of 6 - total of 42 seats

2) With the BE 764s, door 2L is just behind row 7; the domestic 764s have a mini-Y cabin (rows 10-14 IIRC) between the premium cabin and door 2L.

If you look at seat maps, DL108 (LAX-ATL) is a domestic 764 while DL28 (MCO-ATL) is an international BE-764. Of course in the case of the latter, there is always the possibility of a last-minute aircraft substitution since internationals have priority for these 764s.

OldRoyal

Thanks, Clipper. I always find it interesting that that I can get more complete and accurate information from my fellow Flyertalkers than I can from Delta reservations.

AndyTLe

The vast majority of people on FT fly more often than those that at DL reservations. There's only so much you can learn from behind the desk, a lot of the information you find from those on FT has been picked up while flying.

ContinentalFan

There is value in this concept of same flight number/different equipment. Direct flights often are listed first on reservation systems.

Your experience aside, I doubt that this idea of direct flights on different equipment is really that confusing for FA's. Even if the equipment didn't change in ATL and it continued to DUB, all passengers would have to exit the plane anyway. My experience is that FA's always advise people to check the monitors in case of a gate change.

jimrpa

And that's why you never, never, never book a direct flight with a stop, when a connection is available - even on airlines like Delta that don't credit segments