What happens if some airlines leave Skyteam?
Jul 21, 2007, 4:08 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Saint Petersburg, Fl
Programs: DL Gold, WN A-List, HH Diamond, MR Plat, Avis 1st
Posts: 319
What happens if some airlines leave Skyteam?
What will happen to Skyteam if Delta's partners decide that Delta has shifted to much of its skysaver burden on their shoulders and they leave the alliance? I ask because what I read here on FlyerTalk coupled with my personal experience tells me there is a growing problem with Skysaver awards using Delta.
I have just completed the difficult and unpleasant process of booking my family's 2008 vacation to Italy using Skymiles. To make things as difficult as possible they all wanted Rome in June.
It became clear that I would have to use partner airlines since Delta had no Skysaver availability. I needed 4 tickets and had about 280,000 miles in my account. So the math worked out to only Skysaver as a possible outcome.
I ended up with pretty much what I wanted. June 3rd, 2008 Leave TPA on Delta and connect in BOS. Then take AF to Paris. then AF to FCO. Arrive Rome around noon. That was good.
The return was more difficult. We wanted to depart from Naples (NAP). We got a AF flight June 13, 2008 to Paris then a KLM flight to AMS. Overnight in Amsterdam. I will actually enjoy the near 24 hours there. Enough time for a quick visit to the city. Then the next day Continental to EWR. I have to change airports to get a flight from LGA to TPA to complete the trip. That seems appropriate to me since I fly that same flight DL 1850 30 times a year.
It seems we are depending on partner airlines for our trans Atlantic flights. I will use DL, AF, AF, AF, KL, CO, DL. What will happen if these partners decide Delta is shifting its saver burden on them?
I will also use hotel points. Two rooms at the Hilton Cavalieri in Rome for 6 nights and two rooms at the Naples Renasance Hotel (Marriott) for 3 nights in Naples, and two rooms at the Amsterdam Airport Hotel for one night.
It made for an interesting contrast between the ease of booking the rooms with Hilton and Marriott and the difficulty in booking the flights with Delta. I'm Diamond with Hilton and Platinum with Marriott and they gave me what I wanted on the first call to each. With Delta I was on the phone with the international partner desk on each of days their calendar came open. It required many calls for the return flights out of NAP.
I hope Delta becomes more generous in the future. I would have preferred TPA-ATL-FCO
I have just completed the difficult and unpleasant process of booking my family's 2008 vacation to Italy using Skymiles. To make things as difficult as possible they all wanted Rome in June.
It became clear that I would have to use partner airlines since Delta had no Skysaver availability. I needed 4 tickets and had about 280,000 miles in my account. So the math worked out to only Skysaver as a possible outcome.
I ended up with pretty much what I wanted. June 3rd, 2008 Leave TPA on Delta and connect in BOS. Then take AF to Paris. then AF to FCO. Arrive Rome around noon. That was good.
The return was more difficult. We wanted to depart from Naples (NAP). We got a AF flight June 13, 2008 to Paris then a KLM flight to AMS. Overnight in Amsterdam. I will actually enjoy the near 24 hours there. Enough time for a quick visit to the city. Then the next day Continental to EWR. I have to change airports to get a flight from LGA to TPA to complete the trip. That seems appropriate to me since I fly that same flight DL 1850 30 times a year.
It seems we are depending on partner airlines for our trans Atlantic flights. I will use DL, AF, AF, AF, KL, CO, DL. What will happen if these partners decide Delta is shifting its saver burden on them?
I will also use hotel points. Two rooms at the Hilton Cavalieri in Rome for 6 nights and two rooms at the Naples Renasance Hotel (Marriott) for 3 nights in Naples, and two rooms at the Amsterdam Airport Hotel for one night.
It made for an interesting contrast between the ease of booking the rooms with Hilton and Marriott and the difficulty in booking the flights with Delta. I'm Diamond with Hilton and Platinum with Marriott and they gave me what I wanted on the first call to each. With Delta I was on the phone with the international partner desk on each of days their calendar came open. It required many calls for the return flights out of NAP.
I hope Delta becomes more generous in the future. I would have preferred TPA-ATL-FCO
Jul 21, 2007, 4:31 pm
#2
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Kingdom of the Sun
Programs: DL GM/MM
Posts: 3,708
Perhaps it's the other way around? Maybe a lot of Delta's allocated award seats are used by mileage earners from AZ and AF and OS and the others are all getting the good Delta seats to destinations where their "home" airlines don't go such as LAS, MCO, MSY, and other?
Jul 21, 2007, 4:51 pm
#3
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NYC
Programs: AA Plat, Delta Plat, Bonvoy Plat, Hilton Diamon
Posts: 1,262
Given the current exchange rates with the Euro & Pound, I wouldn't be suprised by this. Delta could be taking advantage of the weak dollar to boost revenue from European partners.
Jul 21, 2007, 7:19 pm
#4
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: MA
Programs: DL DM/2MM Marriott Platinum, HH Diamond,
Posts: 8,907
PCMflyer, surely you do not think that those airlines have given up their seats to a DL frequent flyer for free?
That's the part I personally do not understand... DL would rather pay a ST partner than give the seat out on its own airplane!
That's the part I personally do not understand... DL would rather pay a ST partner than give the seat out on its own airplane!
Jul 21, 2007, 7:46 pm
#5
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 487
First, I can not see anyone in the world with a choice selecting a US airline over Asia or Europe. They do not compare in service. However much they are now trying.
DL seems to rank very low in reward travel. I have read this in many studies. Maybe others can offer details.
The award issue and over all service is why as a PM I stopped flying DL. I have over this time burned over 1.5 million miles. By the way, mostly on award partners. Only one flight over the Atlantic and one over the pacific where DL. AF, SQ, CO, Alitalia, and NW. This is sad but I really got the better of it.
I now only have about 50K left. After my last challnage I am glad. I find DL too hard to deal with and customer service still is very poor to customers.
I feel the real issue is what will happen to Skyteam when one or more US airlines merge with others. Non Skyteam? Will it survive? Witch US carrier will it be DL or CO or NW?
The award issue and over all service is why as a PM I stopped flying DL. I have over this time burned over 1.5 million miles. By the way, mostly on award partners. Only one flight over the Atlantic and one over the pacific where DL. AF, SQ, CO, Alitalia, and NW. This is sad but I really got the better of it.
I now only have about 50K left. After my last challnage I am glad. I find DL too hard to deal with and customer service still is very poor to customers.
I feel the real issue is what will happen to Skyteam when one or more US airlines merge with others. Non Skyteam? Will it survive? Witch US carrier will it be DL or CO or NW?
Jul 21, 2007, 8:24 pm
#6
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: VPS
Programs: DL DM/2MM, Etihad Gold, HHonors Diamond, SPG Gold
Posts: 4,787
Please point me to these "many studies". I'm aware of one that ranked Delta very low (NYT) and one that ranked Delta very high (HOM), but am completely unaware that many more studies were published.
Jul 21, 2007, 8:34 pm
#7
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: AUS DL PM MM, HH LTD
Posts: 1,853
Living in Tokyo, I have very few options flying DL. Still, I have been able to get skysaver award seats on partners. I just flew NRT CPH KL on out bound and AF on return. I have flown NRT HKG on award tickets on NW and have another HKG trip booked in the fall. I just booked NRT ATH with return NCE NRT on AF for next year. All of these have been skysaver business award tickets.
I don't know how the accounting works. A while back, I thought it was reported that the airlines don't actually "pay" the partner airline when we fly on them; rather, that each airline puts seats into the "pot" at some ratio and they all take from the pot. So far, I have been able to track AF O inventory on expert flyer and DL has been able to pull up the exact same flights.
I can't complain about skysaver award travel. So far, I have not had to do too much in the way of convoluted routing. To the OP I would recommend tracking availability on alternate flights and try to improve the itinerary over time. With four seats this might be harder to do but you still might have success.
Marc
I don't know how the accounting works. A while back, I thought it was reported that the airlines don't actually "pay" the partner airline when we fly on them; rather, that each airline puts seats into the "pot" at some ratio and they all take from the pot. So far, I have been able to track AF O inventory on expert flyer and DL has been able to pull up the exact same flights.
I can't complain about skysaver award travel. So far, I have not had to do too much in the way of convoluted routing. To the OP I would recommend tracking availability on alternate flights and try to improve the itinerary over time. With four seats this might be harder to do but you still might have success.
Marc
Jul 21, 2007, 8:47 pm
#8
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: NYC, CDG, NCE
Programs: DL DM
Posts: 2,633
Okay. A few weeks ago, I vowed to myself that I was going to stand strong and not click on yet another Skymiles Sucks thread.
to the OP for bait and switch between the interesting headline and the extended rant/brag about how skymiles sucks, yet you got pretty much what you wanted.I want my 5 minutes back!
Jul 21, 2007, 10:23 pm
#9
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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To answer the question posted in the title, I believe there are severe exit penalties for airlines that withdraw from any marketing alliance, SkyTeam included. I don't know what the amount is, but I am sure that it is significant enough to keep the alliance intact under the majority of situations.
Jul 21, 2007, 10:31 pm
#10
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My experience over the past two and half years is somewhat different. I get two or three international reward tickets a year, BF on Continental. When I try to book flights, Delta flights seem to be far easier to get using standard rewards. I have to be very flexible with my travel dates or destination cities to get BusinessFirst on CO. I actually thought the opposite of what the OP said is true--DL seems to be relatively easy to get.
The airlines in the ST alliance also have the finances of these reward tickets worked out. Seats aren't being given away.
The airlines in the ST alliance also have the finances of these reward tickets worked out. Seats aren't being given away.
Jul 22, 2007, 5:29 am
#11
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Munich, Germany
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The problem with the award seats on Delta metal probably won't cause another airline to leave the Skyteam alliance.
However, odds are that we might see some blackouts again as we did in the past due to Skymiles members burning off their miles on partners like Air France (which has very good award availability in all classes of service, not just coach). And remember that permanent blackout Skymiles members enjoy with regards to redeeming miles for long-haul F on other Skyteam partners.
However, odds are that we might see some blackouts again as we did in the past due to Skymiles members burning off their miles on partners like Air France (which has very good award availability in all classes of service, not just coach). And remember that permanent blackout Skymiles members enjoy with regards to redeeming miles for long-haul F on other Skyteam partners.