vielflieger

Hello UDH could you clarify the following:

There are some 767 ER out there with three rows of B/E in the "B" section and one less in the front. If section B is eliminated this means that those will have only 32 B/E seats in the front. Am I correct or will they move the galley? I hate to see the section B go. I loved 10A for my once a month R/T to Germany. Very quiet, get the classics express and than sleep the rest of the way...

LAOCA

I do't believe there's much chance is any they will move the galley in the ex-Gulf Air planes. In addition the the galley, the rest rooms would have to be moved as well. Those things are pretty well set when delivered because of the plumbing and power.

Five planes are likely to be 32 seaters.

OrlandoFlyer

I agree with the other postings. I have used the B cabin many times on my transatlantic trips. It is smaller, and consequently quieter which makes it easier to sleep. Seat 10A was my favorite. Will have to look at alternatives in the future.

indufan

Could this imbalance also be resolved with pricing? Higher prices for Y and lower prices for B/E?

Edited for typo.



[This message has been edited by indufan (edited 10-04-2003).]

Engines turn

I guess the changes in SkyMiles to reward and attract high-fare customers is really paying off.

The product has also dropped to the lowest tier of major carriers.

------------------
...or passengers swim.

Spiff

So it seems that the old configuration with more seats somehow has the exit row only at row 20? Is this correct? The configuration I'm used to has 20/21 as the exit rows but am now seeing only row 20 as exit.

Thanks!

NYC@LAX

No Wonder!!!!!!!!!!! Since July I was trying to obtain a B/E seat from LAX-JFK in late Jan, Feb, or Mar 2004. No luck and I found this to be very strange (I always get a seat on a 1st or 2nd request), now we know why. DL has been denying these seats in anticipation of their seat reduction on the 767-300er's. Hopefully DL will release these seats for rewards in the near future.

jes999

No. This REALLY sucks. 25% reduction in BE seats is HUGE!

DLSTR

The new seat configurations are already loaded in the system.

I have just checked and on MAR 31st

DL9 LGW - ATL
DL27 FRA - ATL
DL37 LGW - CVG
DL49 FRA - CVG
DL59 LGW - ATL
DL117 STR - ATL
DL131 MUC - ATL

are showing with only 36 BizElite seats. I have quit checking more flights after realizing there is only a slim chance that there are still other aircraft around by then.

Edited to add more flight numbers

[This message has been edited by DLSTR (edited 10-26-2003).]

DLSTR

It is interesting to see that only the BizElite cabin has changed. The same seat plan in Coach still starting with Row 20.

crimguy1976

Here's what OAL offers:

AA762: 30C
AA763: 30C

CO762: 25C
CO764: 35C

NW330: 34C
NWDC10: 26C

UA762 Domestic A: 33C
UA762 Domestic B: 32C
UA763: 32C

US762: 24C
US330: 42C

These numbers taken from seatguru, if anyone has different numbers feel free to post. First class cabins are not included on A/C with such a cabin. Based on the numbers above DL will still offer more C seats overall. Whether they releaes them as "award" seats is another issue, and their discretion. As a lowly DL silver, I will say that on domestic B/E flights, i've never had a problem using segment upgrades. With these changes I doubt that will change, especially with the mass exodus of golds and platinums. In addition to that, some markets that offer B/E cabins also offer QDLUP/YDLUP fares, so buying these seats doesn't carry the sticker shock it did a couple years ago.

ptcflyer

Intersesting problem for DL. Will DL really benefit by taking out these BE Seats?

Plus side:

9-12 additional total seats available. On the margin this would equal about an average $250 per seat per flight (assuming DL would have to sell these seats at the lowest possible price)... as they have the ability to price based on demand. Max = $3000 per flight.

Negative Side:

1. Cost of doing all the reconfiging the aircraft.
2. How many PMs will just skip DL internationally with inability to upgrade because of this move?
3. Loss of goodwill in not upgrading a PM who paid at least $700 for the flight and is sitting in coach.
4. Factor in that the plus side revenue only occurs when DL has really "sold-out" the coach flight... Otherwise, it is just spreading the extra space around the coach cabin with no positive revenue.
5. Lack of flexibility if DL should need to "improve its business class product" This change will be costly and difficult to "undo".
6. Cost of premium revenue where PAX pay "BE or high coach fare" because there is not a BE seat available.

There really is not a panacea of benefit to DL with this change... but it just goes to show how desperate the airline is to try to bring in the last possible dollar.

I am not critical for DL for trying this, but I do beleive that they may be spending additional capital $ in reconfigurations, sacrificing their long-term loyal customers, jeopardizing their international quality image, decreasing their flexibility... to gain a few extra seats of low or negative margin business.

With this change, accompanying the other FF changes, If it becomes impossible (as it is often difficult) to use PMUs... I will opt for the lowest fare for my international needs. Wouldn't it be at least exciting if they offered some sort of coach plus offering the same number of total "premium" seats, but gaining DL 5-9 total seats to accomodate PMs or other elites with YBM fares?

Now,that would be more innovative and I'd bet more revenue producing for DL in the long-run.

akhullar

767-300ER(G) is what you notice having ow 20 as exit.

akhullar

Seat 10 (A&B) are in most 767-300ER & 777 quite inconvenient.

10B - You consistently have to watch for your toe getting hit by the cart. In 777 (specially ex-CDG), the pax enter through the second door, and nearly everyone tends to get into your face - sort off.

10A&B the noise from the constant flushing of the loos as well as traffic in the galley makes it tad difficult to sleep. Of!Course I'm only refering to mostly flights to Europe & BOM of which I have personal experience. Don't know about domestic JFK-LAX.

AIRcop

Yes, this SUCKS bigtime!! I routinely go out of my way to go to LAX to get a BE flight, or at least a BE equipped flight. As Herman Munster would say, "darn, darn, darn..."

Are their BE equipped fligts out of SLC any longer?