I think this quesiton has been adressed in te last answer from Bruce and Co.

It's taken a while for the changes to sink in, and we're only guessing at DL's reasons for making some of the specific changes they made. Given that these changes only really impact the FF's (noted somewhere as 3% of the total number of PAX?) would it not have made more sense for DL to simply;

1. Raise the price quietly on K fares across the board by up to 10% (route dependent), which would have caused some grumbling, but most of us would have swallowed.

2. Enact the changes for the qualification process but leave the benefits alone.

3. Reduce the number of promos that generate HUGE mile numbers.

I really think BruceB and the others at DL underestimated the reaction to having to sit in back on DL's planes for 75% of our travel.

Note to Flyertalkers:

Relax and take a few breaths here. Keep in mind how airlines talk with one another. One airline floats a fare increase. If all of the majors go along, the increase sticks. If they do not go along, the proposing airline withdrawals the increase. Rather than picking up the phone executive to executive and saying "raise your fares, I'll raise mine"... they just float the idea in the fare system. The others get the message and either agree or disagree.

The same is true with these frequent flyer programs. USAir proved this earlier this year. Delta is "floating" an idea. They obviously are complementing elements of the AA/UA programs. They are, however, trying to take it a step further to reduce the costs and benefits to flyers. If UA/AA and others do not significantly make their programs less lucrative, and DL realizes that it is going to make their revenue projections turn negative, they will just ease up. (i.e. retroactively recalculate elite qualifications under a different formula, and/or change the rules enough become more generous with complementary upgrades.

They have provided a basic frequent flyer methodology, but will adjust the specifics based on their competitors' feedback -- not the feedback from us "flyertalkers". Our feedback can only be given with our spending patterns...which will be determined by the competitors' responses.

Don't get your feathers ruffled to much over this. These changes are the beginning of a dialogue going on between the airlines.... there will be many more conversations to come over time.

Our frequent flyer strategies and loyalties are multi-year strategies. (Switching, earning, or maintaining status is often an annual commitment involving short-term sacrifices). -- Who said loyalty wasn't easy? So, be careful about making rash moves that could turn into "cutting off your nose to spite your face." It does make sense to perhaps shoot for gold or second-tier status in two programs instead of platinum in one to hedge your bets.

I will probably be forced to use DL on short east coast flights. But I will probably use AA with my newly comped Platinum for West-of-Mississippi flights. I'll probably end up seond-tier on both... knowing that DL will at least comp me to Gold next year. I can then make a new commitment and decision for 2004.

However, my gut tells me that during the next 60 days, we will have further changing dynamics. The long-term trends, however, will never be encouraging.

A question I don't think anybody has asked:

Will DBC vouchers still be equivalent to a traditional cash/credit purchase?

Regardless of what fare class is bought, Delta isn't getting any money from the transaction. So with this new purely revenue-focused approach, will there be anything different when vouchers are used?

Thanks,
Elektrik

Thanks for summarizing the differences between AA & DL. Your summary has helped me make my decision to switch back to AA. My situation parallels yours; nearly 4MM AA, Lifetime Plat, 1MM DL the hard way & DL PM every year for last 8 years including for 2003. In addition I have Lifetime CRC but have noticed that the new CRC membership cards now have an annual expiration date rather than the "Lifetime Member" imprint. I'm afraid that DL will now take this Lifetime benefit away also even though I paid for it in full.

Three questions for Bruce:

1) Will the price of purchased upgrades at the gate be adjusted to match the price a Medallion would have to pay to upgrade? Example: Today, I saw upgrades SLC-->ANC being sold for $100. Under the new scheme, I would have to use 5-500MSUs to upgrade, at a cost of $200 (5*$40 each). If not, can I return my MSUs and purchase an upgrade at the gate in a situation like this?

2) The difference between Y/B/M fares and A/FFY fares is pretty small in some markets - It is very possible that the price of a "B" class ticket, plus sufficient upgrade points, could easily exceed the price of an FFY ticket. Doesn't that seem a bit odd?

3) Has there been consideration to base earned MSUs on qualification miles rather than flown miles? It seems like I should earn more upgrade points on a F class ticket than on a T class ticket going to the same destination.

Thanks for your time.

Fares and FF programs are two different animals, with fares being extremely fluid, and changes introduced (and withdrawn) multiple times per year. The USAir changes were rescinded ONLY because of the outcry and publicity that IMMEDIATELY followed the proposals. After the reactions, it would have been suicidal for any other AL to match. The reaction to the DL changes does not match the USAir reaction (so far).

I do agree that DL is floating some stuff here that could be changed, but if WE don't raise our concerns, they may not change, even if the others don't match.

Unfortunately, I agree with your summary statement, and also think that we're seeing a trend here that is not going to be in the FFs favor.

I am pretty insulted by all the positive spin DL is trying to put on these changes. We here are not idiots, and the bad outweighs the good for most things for most of us.
The poor people trying to defend these miserable changes must feel like OJ's lawyers trying to get him off.. Woops, they were totally without conscience- maybe the same applies here too.
Anyway, Delta, I have been gold for a long time, and now will use priceline and travelocity- screw you and thx for honoring my 400,000 base miles of loyalty.

Bruce B:

I am a "lowly" Silver Medallion but I would like to know why Delta apparently thinks we are not worthy of your company any longer. If you want to know why many of our upgrade points go unused, perhaps its because, at least in my situation, I primarily fly on airplanes that don't have a first clase - not by choice but Comair is all that is available to fly within Florida. Nonetheless, I always buy K fares but its pretty tough to get beyond Silver when you are only flying short legs and don't have 3 connecting flights. The tickets I buy are quite costly for the service I get, but I chose to fly Delta rather than drive or take Southwest when that airline is an option - at a much greater cost to my client. I also always chose Delta on leisure travel - regardless of the fare. I chose Delta for the Medallion benefits. The Medallion benefits that are important to me -- seperate checkin line, better choice of seats on the planes, and preboard when applicable, cost Delta NOTHING. Oh yes, and let me not forget that I find I am treated especially nice by the agents, etc, because of the amount of time I spend on your planes. Those are all extremely important to someone who spends alot of time on planes flying for business. However, because under your new rules, us high paying fare passengers that unfortunately don't fly long distances, will most likely be knocked out of even the most basic level of medallion status.

Without those perks, I personally will chose to drive rather than waist my valuable time standing in the checkin line or sitting in the middle seat at the back of the plane. When the situation requires me to fly, once my SM status expires, I will chose based on fare alone - or might even be inclined to pick a higher priced fare on another airline just to avoid Delta - and I've been hearing good things about AA coach class on this board.

Explain why my business is apparently no longer important to Delta. If the K fares I pay Delta to fly 20 mins is not profitable, then why do you have these flights?

Explain why it will cost me $8,000 to make silver [gold is out of the question as I could not possibly fly on average 52 r/t flights which would be necessary], whereas I randomly checked several cross county flights and figured out that someone could make silver by spending approximately $4,000, and gold by spending what it takes me to make silver -- because I fly short routes.

So Bruce B - explain to me how the greater amount of money I could potentially spend on your airline is somehow not so important to Delta that is can't provide me a couple of perks that don't cost anything?

I really enjoyed flying on Delta - however, I do not appreciate suddenly being told that my years of loyalty to Delta [at K fares] is no longer wanted. In fact, it came as somewhat of a shock.

Also, I am curious regarding the segment upgrades - one justification was that there is too much demand for upgrades, aonother reason was that people had leftover segment upgrades - if that is so, then how is that I, a lowly silver, bottom of the priority list for upgrades, was almost always able to ugrade - even through ATL? When I do fly outside of the state, I would always buy the upgradeable fare - and I almost always got upgraded - so I really don't understand why Delta felta the need to take that benefit away from PM, and to give out fewer upgrade segments to SM and GM. Also, who really complains about having leftover segment upgrade points? I was just happy to have them there on the occassions when I could use them.

I am looking forward to new relationship with Alamo car rental once my SM benefits expire - to get me around the state - but it will be good for my clients - alot cheaper than Delta.

Regardless of what we think of these new changes, I do think we must applaud Delta for one thing:

That there is someone here, representing Delta, very carefully answering all of our questions and potentially doing something with our feedback.

Agreed, scribbler ... this is definitely a first.

------------------
Vasant

Bruce-Has any thought been given to eliminating all domestic FC seats and installing Shuttle (or JetBlue)quality seating for all domestic service? Slightly more legroom or seat pitch plus (perhaps) seat back TVs and the FC upgrade issue might go away for a lot of flyers (but not all, of course). Elite perks might include the ability to book the best of these seats in advance (such as exit row, as is already being done). Does domestic FC really add anything to the bottom line?

Bruce

Majority of our DL travel (wife MM/PM) originates and ends RSW/ATL or ATL/RSW . Mileage credited by DL is 515 base miles . The 800 mile segment is now being de-valued to a 500 mile segment. Under the new changes - we will need 2 segments to upgrade each way RSW/ATL/RSW! As we are both PM - will only receive 20 segment upgrades 1/04 - any policy to "stretch" the 500 mile criteria an extra 15 miles for those like us? If there is no flexibility by DL - it will make our decision much easier as to where we move our extensive revenue/business beginning in 2003.

Are all fares now upgradable or just for domestic trips? Thanks

Hey, Tucson to DFW is about 807 miles... back in the paper 800 MSU days (and mainline service), the counter agents would often wink and take one certificate. With electronic MSUs, there could be no leeway, and I suspect strongly that it will be the case with the new 500 MSUs.