Don't be silly. That's a win-win for you, not DL. You could just earn all point and convert them to miles when they're about to expire.

Under the new plan you must choose up front. You see, this way DL has the win-win. If you guess wrong and have too many points, they vanish ... a win for DL. And if you guess wrong the other way and have too few point, then you get to pay for that upgrade with $$ or miles. Again a DL, win,

You can switch back and forth, but then you'd have to spend time tracking your milage/point every flight and switch at just the right time to earn miles or point as needed. And then of course there are those unxepected trips where 10 points would be needed and you dont have enough. More $$ for DL.

Maybe I'm wrong here, but Skymiles is not for our benefit anymore ... just DL's.

I suspect that frequent flyer programs have always been for the airline's benefit - not the customer.

Another question for Bruce: if I book flights now for 2003, can I use my NAMUs to upgrade from inSULT fares, or only for the existing upgradable fares?

Gee, I am glad you don't think I am wrong. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

My post wasn't in the best of light, but I stand by the point of it. If I offended you or anybody else... I apologize.

That being said....

The single biggest advantage of being PM with DL was the unlimited upgrades to F at the time of booking. This is not only my opinion, but it seems to be of the vast majority of PMs who post on FT. It is clear to me and many others that the DIFFERENCE between PM and GM has been reduced to mere scraps. There is not a big enough difference in the two to justify my % or my time trapped in a tube.

I am not going to continue to fly 100,000+ miles every year in the single worst coach cabin in the industry. I HAVE NO IDEA HOW YOU DO IT, JPT. I will either switch carriers (doubtful being ATL based with some of my destinations) or switch jobs.

As another FTer said "excrement is excrement"... GM or PM, doesn't matter. Either way you are stuck in Y the VAST majority of the time UNLESS you pony up even more money than you already have (or burn an an outrageous amount of miles).

What exact benefits of PM do you value enough that make it worthwhile over GM? And do you think that the majority of PMs share those same concerns?

Count me as one of those OTHERS!

Bruce

It isn't much better between GM & FO.

bruceb, just to clarify the upgrade policy, do I understand that I will now be able to confirm an upgrade with miles, at time of booking, from discount fares?

Accepted. I didn't think you meant it the way I read it, but it did get me a bit hot under the collar. Not everyone has the same motivations, and not everyone finds the same value in things.

Only if you can use it. That's my point.

As I have told less-frequent DL pax, "don't expect too much, and you won't be disappointed." I like my job a great deal, and I will put up with a lot of BS in order to keep it. Part of that includes suffering in Y on DL every week. Fortunately, I have a pretty high tolerance for discomfort.

Well, paying more isn't an option, as I have to book travel through my company's agency. Any fare I book is immediately vetted before it gets ticketed. And I'm not going to use miles for business travel. So I suck it up.

Allow me to turn the question on its head. If you could not upgrade, what benefit would you find in being PM? What would be of value to you? Certainly upgrades have value, but they aren't the only benefit of value. What other benefits would you use, if you couldn't upgrade?

I know that I don't speak for the majority of PMs, though I am every bit as angry at the changes as any other PM. Even so, I really don't need to speak for anyone else; I'm in it solely for myself. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

As posted by RSSRSVP :Quote.."You should step out of your ivory tower in ATL , wake up and smell the roses. People are not stupid and will not spend more for a inferior product. Your P/R department must have worked for Pravda if they think that your most loyal and faithful customers cannot read between the lines"

Thanks for so eloquently expressing my sentiments. I completely concur with everything you said.

As already said, could it be possible to te flyertalk members here just to focu on their questions to Bruceleb

It becomes really more and more difficult to read this post, although we have somebody of Delta ready to answer our questions, but not obviously our complains.

bruceb, perhaps you can give us good reasons why we should continue to fly DL when faced with drastic cutbacks in your Skymiles program? You are not the only game in town, and even people that live in your hubs are evaluating alternative carriers.

Years ago, when Coca Cola changed the formula for the most famous soda in the world and it wasn't accepted by the public, they were smart enough to do an about face. How smart is the top management at DL. We know that your management lurks and reads this board on a regular basis. Is it a matter of arrogance on DL's part, or just not being in touch with your customer base? In case you haven't read the papers, business is bad everywhere, not just the airline industry. People will not spend more money if they have options. Guess what boys and girls, there are plenty of options out there.

BruceB,

First, thanks for taking the time to respond to our questions; also, since Delta is no doubt paying you for your time here, thanks to them for finally recognizing the valuable group of frequent fliers that make up this forum.

Second, two points of clarification please:
1a, Once earned, can four 500-MSUs be converted to 5000 bonus miles or does this have to be done before flying 10,000 miles? 1b, Is it 10,000 miles flown or 10,000 MQMs?
2, Will the new 500-MSUs still expire at the end of the following year? (AA's don't expire and UA will convert expiring upgrade segments to bonus miles.)

Thanks.

JustPassingThrough asks: "Allow me to turn the question on its head. If you could not upgrade, what benefit would you find in being PM? What would be of value to you? Certainly upgrades have value, but they aren't the only benefit of value. What other benefits would you use, if you couldn't upgrade?"

My personal answer: "none!"
Sorry, I know this is supposed to be for Bruce but I was just checking back to see if he answered my earlier question....I'm still literally waiting here to see how to book my flights for next quarter on delta.com. For tax reasons I like to book 1st quarter before the year's out - which for me is this week. Anyone have suggestions on how to get the website to quote an M fare??? I want the 1000 bonus miles from the site too so don't want to go through reservations.

------------------
DL PM (looking for new home), HHonorDiamond, Starwood Gold

Agreed, the one single reason I've stayed with DL is thatI can upgrade at the time of booking, if that is no longer the case then the value of platinum is greatly dimished - to me, it doesn't matter "that the new rules are so much better for the customer"

Try www.AA.com!

Or, as you are based in SLC, www.iflyswa.com If you are going to fly a lot in coach, at least you can bring along a companion for free by flying only 50 segments. This can be confirmed in any available seats.

[This message has been edited by wschild (edited 12-17-2002).]