FlyerTalk Forums - Changes to SkyMiles Medallion Program

In support of vasantn’s recent post, please use this thread only for specific questions regarding Delta’s recent SkyMiles program changes. We’re trying to provide Flyertalkers with timely and accurate answers to legitimate program questions, but the process slows with every non-question posted.

Quote:

Originally posted by jmoreita:
You'll have to admit that in many ways you've copied the American AAdvantage program, except that you left off the option of qualifying for elite status via mileage. Why did you not include this option?

You've also mention several times that one of the reasons that you've reduced the number of upgrades that you will issue is because so many were going unused. And that Skymile members asked you "what do we do with all of these unused upgrades". And my first thought is that again if you'd matched the AA program (upgradeable from any fare) that not so many upgrades would go unused. Comments?

The reasons we decided to go with Medallion Qualification Miles exclusively are as follows:
· First, the new qualification criteria will mean more (not less) members qualify than the previous three criteria (base miles, segments and trans-oceanic segments). If we had offered a program like AA’s we would disadvantage some short-haul higher fare customers.
· Second, the qualification criteria is more closely aligned with revenue as opposed to volume, which we believe is a fairer metric, but more importantly provides a foundation that will allow us to reinvest in the program in a way that is both beneficial for you and Delta. Examples of reinvestments include the introduction of the additional benefit levels at 75K, 125K and 150K and the introduction of top-level elite status when you reach four Million Medallion Qualification Miles.

The issue with just changing the upgrade policy to cover L, U and T fares to reduce the number of unused upgrades are as follows:
· First, demand for upgrades tends to be concentrated on peak business flights (e.g. Atlanta to New York on Monday morning) and supply of upgrade seats would have never met demand on these types of flights.
· Second, some customers fly on one-class Delta products (e.g. Shuttle) or International routes where the 500-Mile Upgrade points cannot be used. This can mean customers buildup a significant balance of upgrades. While making all fares upgradeable has an impact on these customers (e.g. the leisure trip to the Caribbean on an L fare) it would not have balanced supply and demand. If you do the math for a Gold Medallion member traveling on International and one-class products you will quickly see that there would most likely be an excess of upgrades given. This was also one of the reasons we introduced the 5000 bonus SkyMiles option and companion upgrades using the 500-Mile Upgrade points.

Quote:

Originally posted by ericsea:
What happens to those of us who have already purchased L/U/T fares for travel in 2003? Will we only get 1/2 of the mileage credit, even though the tickets were bought under the impression that the full mileage would be credited for Medallion purposes? Not only do I dislike the new policy, I think the timing of it (in mid December, effective for travel beginning in January) was very inconsiderate for Delta flyers who have already purchased tickets for next year.

The following procedure may help some customers. Effective Monday Dec. 16, 2002, customers who wish to reissue an existing ticket for a higher fare (i.e exchanging a Q or H fare for an M fare) will be able to do so through Delta reservations, ticket offices or airport locations. This will be valid for tickets issued on or before December 16, 2002 and for travel on or after January 1, 2003. No changes will be allowed to flight, date, origin, destination or stopovers. Subject to availability in the requested fare class. Fare differential collected at time of reissue. The $100 Administrative Service charge will be waived.

Quote:

Originally posted by vasantn:
bruceb, let me just ask a question that goes to the heart of the matter for many of us PMs.

The new program is now a clone of the AA program in all material respects, with the following exceptions:

Pluses:
Free CRC membership -- worth a few hundred dollars at most.
New lifetime (or "annual", as you prefer to call them) medallion levels -- beyond reach for the vast majority of us.

Minuses:
Ability to upgrade low fares restricted to day of departure.
No ability to upgrade low international fares (as far as I can tell).
6 PMUs vs. 8 VIPOWs.
No transferability of PMUs.
LRTC (Less Room Throughout Coach).
No ability to earn status via miles or segments.

Can you look at the above objectively and then explain to us why we should fly DL rather than AA? The pluses are of nominal value; the minuses much more substantive. Until now, the imbalance was offset by the ability to get unlimited upgrades and confirm them at time of booking. These benefits are now gone.

Below are a few additional pluses that were left out of the comparison:
· Additional new benefit levels for both Platinum and Gold Medallion members – companion Medallion status or carry over Medallion Qualification Miles
· Ability to upgrade at time of booking from Y, B or M fares
· Fast qualification for those that travel on First, Business, BusinessElite, Y, B and M fares
· While both offer free upgrades methods allow you to upgrade from full Coach fares to First, ours will count as BusinessElite or First Class fares when calculating medallion qualification miles (2x), and are confirmed at time of booking
· Option to earn 5000 bonus SkyMiles, which is equivalent to an additional 50% mileage bonus for all Medallion members

As for the minuses
· No transferability of PMUs: we are working on making the use of these upgrades applicable to traveling companions that are not accompanying you. The ability to sell or transfer the PMUs is something we are unlikely to adopt.
· No ability to earn status via miles or segments: as discussed in the previous question this results in more Medallion members. This is really a plus (for customers that buy a mix of discounted Coach, Coach, First, Business and BusinessElite fares) and a minus (for customers that travel frequently on a greater proportion on L, U or T fares).

Quote:

Originally posted by theDeltaFlyer:
Under the new system why can PM's no longer lock in upgrades at the time of purchase? What is the reason behind the move to a 100 window? You really can't expect to be selling those F seats at the insane F prices.

We found that Platinum Medallion members that book close to departure tend to buy higher fares, but also have a lower success rate at getting upgrades. To make the process fairer we are going to protect upgrade seats for these Platinum Medallion members that book closer to departure.

Quote:

Originally posted by mntblue:
Thanks for taking the time to answer questions here. I am a New York based PM for 2002. This year I've accumulated 41K base miles with Delta.

1. When you recalculate my 2002 qualifing miles under the new rules, would you take into consideration the double base mile promotions you ran early this year?

2. If it is determined that I flew less than 50K base mile (and MQM), would I be bumped down to gold or silver status? How many upgrade points would I receive then?

3. How do you think this change will affect a frequent Delta shuttle user?

1. Yes. It will be converted on a one-for-one basis.
2. Two situations, once we have recalculated your Medallion Qualification Miles
a. If you have more than 50,000 MQM then you will receive Gold Medallion status for 2003
b. If you have less than 50,000 MQM the previous program guidelines will be applied to determine your status in 2003
3. A Delta Shuttle user should be advantaged because most fares are booked into the Coach (Y, B or M fare classes) and will therefore receive the 1.5x bonus

Quote:

Originally posted by mntblue:
Thanks for compiling the comparison b/o AA and DL. AA top tier (EXP) flyers actually receive 16 VIPOWs. 8 at the time you reach EXP and another 8 at the time EXP package is sent.

Delta Platinum Medallion members also receive six Platinum Medallion Upgrades if they make Platinum Medallion level part way through a year and six at the beginning of the next year when they receive their new credentials.

Quote:

Originally posted by wschild:
Can you explain why Delta is generally inferior to AA given these points: (I hope you don't feel the justification is "free Crown Room membership", I'd gladly give that up or pay for it and keep the old Platinum Medallion benefits!)

Elite Status:
DL: MQM points only
AA: Miles OR Q-points

Million Miler program:
DL: 1 Million BASE miles=lifetime 25K level
UA: 1 Million BASE miles=lifetime 50K level
AA: 1 Million ALL miles=lifetime 25K level
AA: 2 Million ALL miles=lifetime 50K level
AA is the best, as ALL miles earned (car, hotel, elite bonus) count!

Why does Delta offer the weakest MM benefits? (I realize you changed from ALL miles to BASE miles a few years ago.)

Upgrades:
It appears that Delta has adopted AA/UA for earning upgrades. (4x500mile upgrades for 10,000 base miles flown)
However: As a 100K flyer on AA/UA, I can upgrade ANY fare 100 hours in Advance (including a companion). 100K on Delta can only upgrade DAY OF DEPARTURE for L/U/T fares.
Also: AA never "expires upgrades"
Also: AA gives FREE upgrades on B fares! (And ALL Y fares)

Upgrade Certificates:
DL: 100K=6PMU upgrades. I can't transfer them unless I fly with companion. And I must buy M or higher fare internationally. (Often DOUBLE the price or more over the lowest fare!)
AA: 100K=8SWU. I can use on ANY fare. I can GIVE to anyone and don't have to fly with them.

Upgrade priority:
DL: Unless you can confirm or clear waitlist in advance (less likely now that PMs can't with K fares at time of booking) 100K Delta flyers have lower priority then 25K Delta flyers on higher fares on standby-upgrade list.
AA: Status ALWAYS comes first. A 100K AA flyer on a weekend WEB fare will beat a 25K AA flyer on a higher fare.

Also, AA gives you "grace miles" on upgrades. (If you go over by up to 50 miles, they won't charge you the extra upgrade)

Will Delta charge 1 or 2 upgrade points for a 549 mile flight? (AA will only charge 1!)

My comments on upgrades: I (like many DL PMs) paid for the K fare even though it was more expensive then L/U/T because I could check and book my upgrade in advance. Also, the K fare was overall about the same as a cheaper AA fare after you factor in the cost of AA upgrades. It appears you think your success selling K fares is going to work on M and higher fares in the new program. THIS WILL NOT WORK, as you are not competitive to AA anymore as you are now charging for upgrades and AA can confirm ALL fares in advance.

While I agree that many flyers will choose the best schedule, (i.e. non-stop) you are going to miss those that would buy Delta and connect (vs. AA non-stop) with this new program. AA has a much better coach product with great leg room and power ports as many seats. AA food is better IMHO as well. Delta will be even a lower choice when there is no schedule advantage.

Another problem: A higher fare basis is not always a higher revenue ticket. Many people travel on big corporate discounts that Delta gives to companies. (I've seen some 30%+ discounts!) Why can't I confirm my H fare at time of booking when I may pay more then a discounted M fare?

I would love to hear your thoughts as well as answers to my questions.

On elite status:
· As discussed previously the number of qualification criteria is not the issue– we previously had three qualification criteria but we would qualify less members than under the new Medallion Qualification Miles criteria.
· Let’s compare Medallion Qualification Miles with a miles based qualification scheme and also AA’s Q-point system
· First miles based qualification
o On First, Business and BusinessElite fares you qualify twice as fast
o On Coach fares (first three fare levels in Y) you qualify 50% faster
o On Discounted Coach fares (next three fare levels in Y) you qualify at the same speed
o On Deeply discounted Coach fares (remaining fare levels in Y) you qualify 50% slower
· Second Q-point based system
o On First fares you qualify 33% faster
o On Business and BusinessElite fares you qualify 60% faster
o On the first two fare levels in Coach you qualify 50% faster
o On the third level fare level in Coach you qualify three times as fast
o On the next three fare levels in Coach you qualify twice as fast
o On the remaining fare levels in Coach you qualify at the same speed
· Each person needs to make up their own mind, but when we do the comparison between Medallion Qualification Miles and miles/Q-points we believe Delta comes out in front.

Million Miler program:
· One small omission is that Delta now also offers a top-level elite recognition in its Million Miler program – this means you get 6 Platinum Medallion Upgrades every year and complimentary access to lounge whenever you travel. We think we are one of the only US airlines to offer this benefit.

Upgrades:
· Other benefits missing from the Platinum Medallion comparison
o Upgrades confirmed at time of booking from Y, B or M fares – which we believe is better than 100 hours
o Companions will also receive same priority (not sure why this was included as a distinction)
o Delta’s certificate free upgrades from full Coach fares count as BusinessElite or First fares (2x Medallion Qualification Miles) and are confirmed at time of booking (not at 100 hours)
o Option to earn 5000 bonus SkyMiles, which is equivalent to an additional 50% mileage bonus for all Medallion members (irrespective of where or how you use your upgrades)

Upgrade priority:
· Waitlisting came up earlier - we are working on this – please keep an eye out for an update on this topic.
· It is correct that the new program looks at both fare and Medallion level to determine priority. This also helps Platinum Medallions traveling on higher fares as they now have the highest chances of getting an upgrade

Additional elements that should be included in the comparison:
· Complimentary Crown Room access
· Additional benefit levels at 125K and 150K – offering companion Medallion status and carry over Medallion Qualification Miles

Grace miles: We do not offer a grace distance today, but we are reviewing this policy.

“AA can confirm ALL fares in advance”: true also for Delta - only higher fares receive a higher priority and lower fares receive a lower priority

Rebates and fare levels: you are correct that fare levels are not perfect – examples of issues are country/currency ticket was purchased in, connecting versus direct passengers, corporate rebates and channel that you purchase the ticket through. Although on average these fare levels work out to be fair.

Quote:

Originally posted by runningshoes:
It's taken a while for the changes to sink in, and we're only guessing at DL's reasons for making some of the specific changes they made. Given that these changes only really impact the FF's (noted somewhere as 3% of the total number of PAX?) would it not have made more sense for DL to simply;

1. Raise the price quietly on K fares across the board by up to 10% (route dependent), which would have caused some grumbling, but most of us would have swallowed.

2. Enact the changes for the qualification process but leave the benefits alone.

3. Reduce the number of promos that generate HUGE mile numbers.

I really think BruceB and the others at DL underestimated the reaction to having to sit in back on DL's planes for 75% of our travel.

You are correct that we could have done many other things to try and improve revenue performance. However, these changes also are about recognizing and rewarding our customers, and we think the approach taken is fair, open and honest.

Quote:

Originally posted by elektrik:
A question I don't think anybody has asked:

Will DBC vouchers still be equivalent to a traditional cash/credit purchase?

Regardless of what fare class is bought, Delta isn't getting any money from the transaction. So with this new purely revenue-focused approach, will there be anything different when vouchers are used?

Thanks,
Elektrik

DBC vouchers are treated like any other form of payment; therefore they do not impact the Medallion Qualification Miles or SkyMiles you earn.

Quote:

Originally posted by LEX-TEAGUE:
Three questions for Bruce:

1) Will the price of purchased upgrades at the gate be adjusted to match the price a Medallion would have to pay to upgrade? Example: Today, I saw upgrades SLC-->ANC being sold for $100. Under the new scheme, I would have to use 5-500MSUs to upgrade, at a cost of $200 (5*$40 each). If not, can I return my MSUs and purchase an upgrade at the gate in a situation like this?

2) The difference between Y/B/M fares and A/FFY fares is pretty small in some markets - It is very possible that the price of a "B" class ticket, plus sufficient upgrade points, could easily exceed the price of an FFY ticket. Doesn't that seem a bit odd?

3) Has there been consideration to base earned MSUs on qualification miles rather than flown miles? It seems like I should earn more upgrade points on a F class ticket than on a T class ticket going to the same destination.

Thanks for your time.

1. There probably won’t be a complete match as the products are quite different, but we will be looking out for discrepancies.
2. Actually the average A or Y-UP fare is quite a bit higher than other Y or B fares. We know in some markets or for some customers this will not be the case, but on average fare levels are quite different. In doing this we also needed to balance having the perfect system with one that can be implemented and is reasonably easy to understand.
3. Yes. However, at this point in time it is not going to change to Medallion Qualification Miles.

Quote:

Originally posted by Donna D:
Bruce B:

Explain why my business is apparently no longer important to Delta. If the K fares I pay Delta to fly 20 mins is not profitable, then why do you have these flights?

Explain why it will cost me $8,000 to make silver [gold is out of the question as I could not possibly fly on average 52 r/t flights which would be necessary], whereas I randomly checked several cross county flights and figured out that someone could make silver by spending approximately $4,000, and gold by spending what it takes me to make silver -- because I fly short routes.

So Bruce B - explain to me how the greater amount of money I could potentially spend on your airline is somehow not so important to Delta that is can't provide me a couple of perks that don't cost anything?

Also, I am curious regarding the segment upgrades - one justification was that there is too much demand for upgrades, aonother reason was that people had leftover segment upgrades - if that is so, then how is that I, a lowly silver, bottom of the priority list for upgrades, was almost always able to ugrade - even through ATL? When I do fly outside of the state, I would always buy the upgradeable fare - and I almost always got upgraded - so I really don't understand why Delta felta the need to take that benefit away from PM, and to give out fewer upgrade segments to SM and GM. Also, who really complains about having leftover segment upgrade points? I was just happy to have them there on the occassions when I could use them.

I am looking forward to new relationship with Alamo car rental once my SM benefits expire - to get me around the state - but it will be good for my clients - alot cheaper than Delta.

Let me quickly see if we understand your travel pattern:
o less than 25 round trips per year
o all flights are less than 500 miles
o all K fare or higher

Just did a quick search on a flight from Fort Lauderdale to Orlando and came up with $139 round trip in K class (which would actually be one of the cheapest ways to get Silver Medallion status under the new qualification criteria) – can you give us a little more detail.

As discussed above the new system is not perfect, but we believe it is more fair than the previous qualification criteria. We are looking at short-haul markets where customers are primarily traveling direct routes (e.g. Shuttle).

Your upgrade success is probably a result of the routes and travel patterns. You could probably find others on FlyerTalk that would complain about not being able to use upgrades before they expire. Also, the introduction of the 5000 bonus SkyMiles was designed for travelers like you that travel on one-class or international routes.

Quote:

Originally posted by JetAway:
Bruce-Has any thought been given to eliminating all domestic FC seats and installing Shuttle (or JetBlue)quality seating for all domestic service? Slightly more legroom or seat pitch plus (perhaps) seat back TVs and the FC upgrade issue might go away for a lot of flyers (but not all, of course). Elite perks might include the ability to book the best of these seats in advance (such as exit row, as is already being done). Does domestic FC really add anything to the bottom line?

The question of ‘how best to configure your aircraft’ is one of those questions that is always under consideration at all airlines.

Quote:

Originally posted by felis:
As I gain my miles with transatlantic YBM flights, my qualificaitn will not be worse, or even better. I will get less e-upgrades, but will be able to use them eventually, as I purchase U tickets within US. I do not see really what would be the need for me to become platinum now, except for the lounges.

So, for me, these modifications are in the good direction.

I just wonder if we can change at any moment our preference for 4-500 miles upgrade or 5000 miles. It is not said yet.

You will be able to change the preference between 5000 bonus SkyMiles and four 500-Mile Upgrade points at any time.

Quote:

Originally posted by keithguy:
….. it appears that mileage upgrades will be available on all fares (including ULT) in North America, at least for Medallion members, starting Jan 1, 2004.

This is correct for upgrades within or between the 50 United States, Bermuda, Canada, the Caribbean and Mexico.

Quote:

Originally posted by martin33:
this is true. but the back-door is in the fine print ("special" fares to get 0 MQM's, below the 0.5 given "deep discount")-- DL's operational history is to re-classify more and more fares into Medallion-Adverse buckets

Nothing has changed in this regard between the previous and new guidelines. Award fares continue to earn no SkyMiles and do not count towards qualification (R, O and N fare classes). The inclusion of E fare class in the table (for completeness) was the reason the words ‘Special Fares’ added – we use this fare class primarily when contract employees are traveling on Delta business.

Quote:

Originally posted by gulfcoastdave:
Majority of our DL travel (wife MM/PM) originates and ends RSW/ATL or ATL/RSW . Mileage credited by DL is 515 base miles . The 800 mile segment is now being de-valued to a 500 mile segment. Under the new changes - we will need 2 segments to upgrade each way RSW/ATL/RSW! As we are both PM - will only receive 20 segment upgrades 1/04 - any policy to "stretch" the 500 mile criteria an extra 15 miles for those like us? If there is no flexibility by DL - it will make our decision much easier as to where we move our extensive revenue/business beginning in 2003.

We do not offer a grace distance today, but we are looking into this.

Quote:

Originally posted by Jac747:
Are all fares now upgradable or just for domestic trips? Thanks

The changes only apply to upgrades within or between the 50 United States, Bermuda, Canada, the Caribbean and Mexico; other International upgrades are not impacted by changes recently announced.