avek00

These changes apply to everyobdy. In fact, DL had Medallions in its crosshairs when implementing these policies.

Think about it: which group of travelers does standby or ticket changes on a regular basis?

fainsys

What classifies as a restrictive fare. I guess I lose $1079 if I miss my ATL-SFO.

flying chicken

Let me get this straught, Unless I have a Y ticket (no B,M or H), I cannot stand by for an earlier flight on the same day? A little bit of flexibility just got a lot more expensive...

RobertS975

Well, not for me... I cannot remember the countless times that I have returned early from a trip, either standing by or more likely paying the change fee for a confirmed change with a possible PM upgrade. This new policy s*cks! Were we just dreaming that DL would not run off the cliff with the rest of the lemmings?

I could probably agree with this if it were a policy applying to U,L and T fares, but to think that this same farce applies to B and M fares as well. Time to complain to your Congressman!


[This message has been edited by RobertS975 (edited 09-05-2002).]

RobertS975

And to think that I once suggested in a thread that change fees be deeply discounted for various medallion levels in view of the tremendous repeat business given to DL by these elites.

duxfan

If you can't refund it, you can't standby, and you lose it if you no-show it. It's a simple policy, in all reality....

CoMooter

I am just glad none of the other lemmings seem to (knock on wood) be following one lemming in insULTing it's best customers...even CO seems to be holding off on any moves of this sort.

Stand-by rules I can live with (just have to plan better), what would really have me think about my lifestyle would be if the lemmings went along with US elite mileage policies or UA or AA instituted DL upgrade policies. Thankfully, both AA & UA seem to be tacking in the direction of just increasing the costs of domestic 500 milers.




[This message has been edited by CoMooter (edited 09-05-2002).]

Robert Leach

So, how is the standby fee goint to work? Do you pay the $100 at the airport in order to standby, then forfeit it if you don't clear? Or, do they go ahead and clear you when you pay it? Or, do they swipe the credit card, but not charge you until you clear (and what if the card is declined at that point)? Or, do they not collect any money or swipe any credit card until you've cleared and return to the podium to collect your boarding pass (which you actually don't have to do at most gates with the bar code devices). How will this process work?

Remember, these are the gate agents who have so much work to do already. I can't imagine that they would be burdened with collecting this additional $100 for standby customers.

And how will they segregate in the system those customers standing by because their earlier flight was cancelled (I presume that this would still be allowed) from those on a U fare standing by for $100?

It will be interesting to see how this shakes out. I suspect there will be a lot less standing by going on, which runs the risk of making irregular operations even more irregular.

Dataton

Hmm, I am pretty much with opus17 on that one. My only standbys have been connecting flights where the first leg arrived early enough to grab an earlier connecting flight. Not the end of the world if that goes away.

I have, however, from time to time, canceled flights in advance of departure to be re-booked at a later time on non-refundable tickets .

Do the new rules mean I must rebook prior to the departure of the orignal ticket?

Or simply must cancel / release prior to flight time with the option of rebooking (with change fee of course) at a later time?

sbrower

Some clarifications, based on my reading of the rules at AA and others.

1. The non-refundable feature is based on the *date* of travel, not the *time* of travel. So, if you miss your flight, you have until midnight to reticket without the "loss of value" kicking in.

2. The purpose of these rule changes, in my view, is to make non-refundable fares *less* attractive to business travelers. I don't love the changes. But the airlines will know if they made the right decision when they find out whether the revenue they lose (people who don't fly or who fly Southwest, etc.) is more or less than the additional revenue they receive from travelers to buy refundable fares. (Remember that refundable isn't always full "Y" or "F" - there are other refundable fares in the system, they just cost more than non-refundable).

I am not saying I like the changes and I am not saying they are a good idea. I am just trying to understand them.

NOTE: There is a hidden problem for business travelers. You have a non-refundable ticket to travel on Tuesday. On Monday you find out that the trip needs to be delayed until Wednesday. It is too late to buy a non-refundable fare for Wednesday. You cannot use *any* of the value from your existing ticket, because you can only book another non-refundable fare. So, you not only need to buy a new ticket for the Wednesday trip, but you need to decide, by Tuesday, on a different trip to which to transfer your non-refundable fare (minus $100 change fee).

fannin

It's not DL's finest hour. They reflexively follow a policy implemented by hemorrhaging carriers on the edge of bankruptcy instead of staking out a competitive niche. This is truly aimed at Medallions "abusing" a system of tight connections, weather delays, seat selection and overbooked flights.

No rule change will cause me as much hassle and none is as likely to drive me away faster. If that's melodrama, I'm unpracticed in the art.

Just Passing Thru

Obviously we need to check fare rules, but I've got a headscratcher here. I just plugged in an IAD-ATL-IAD r/t in November. There's a weekend stay involved, and I asked for K+ fares.

Checking the fare rules, I see that this rule is for a nonrefundable ticket, but I see this regarding standby:

08131-KWE14NV RESERVATIONS PAGE 12
01 RESERVATIONS FOR ALL SECTORS REQUIRED AT LEAST
02 14 DAYS BEFORE DEPARTURE.
03 .
04 OPEN RETURN - NOT PERMITTED
05 WAITLIST - NOT PERMITTED
06 CHANGES - PERMITTED - SEE PAGE 18 - CHANGES/REFUNDS
07 .
08 STANDBY - PASSENGERS HOLDING CONFIRMED RESERVATIONS
09 AND TICKETS MAY STANDBY FOR EARLIER/LATER SAME DAY
10 FLIGHTS BETWEEN SAME ORIGIN/DESTINATION/STOPOVER
11 POINTS AT NO ADDITIONAL COST.
12 .
13 STANDBY DIFFERENT DAY IS PROHIBITED.
14 .


So what's the deal? Can one manage to get around the no same-day standby rule simply by purchasing a typical K+ fare? Can anyone expound on this?

I also see a T fare for the same date pair that appears to allow free same-day standby.

05545-TA7TN08 RESERVATIONS PAGE 12
01 RESERVATIONS FOR ALL SECTORS REQUIRED AT LEAST
02 7 DAYS BEFORE DEPARTURE.
03 .
04 OPEN RETURN NOT PERMITTED.
05 WAITLISTING NOT PERMITTED.
06 CHANGES - PERMITTED ..SEE PAGE 18-CHANGES/REFUNDS
07 .
08 STANDBY - PASSENGERS HOLDING CONFIRMED RESERVATIONS
09 AND TICKETS MAY STANDBY FOR EARLIER/LATER SAME DAY
10 FLIGHTS BETWEEN SAME ORIGIN/DESTINATION/STOPOVER
11 POINTS AT NO ADDITIONAL COST.
12 .


[This message has been edited by Just Passing Thru (edited 09-05-2002).]

RSSrsvp

DL just put another nail into their coffin. And I thought that they would be smarter than this and grab the defecting customers from US. BTW, when all of the companies in an industry play follow the leader and copy each others pricing practices to the detriment of their customers, doesn't that smell of an anti-trust violation?

Jet Blue JFK-LAX & Florida, here I come.

LAOCA

What's unclear to me is the actual change policy. It appears you can still change the return for a change fee as long as you so so before you the schduled return flight.

Does anyone know what fares this will apply to? I'm assuming advance purchase Q-

A Delta CUSTOMER!

I still don't get the reasoning behind charging $100 for standing by. As others have repeatedly said, this was the one thing that was win-win for the airlines and the passengers.

Why would they create an incentive to have open seats earlier in the day fly empty.

Imagine for example, a summer thunder storm. Passenger X otherwise would have stood by on a 4pm flight. Now, at 7pm, he's stuck at airport YYY on a whether hold, and at 6am the next day DL is wasting time trying to reaccommodate the passenger on positive space it could otherwise sell.

Sounds like a great idea.